Assault from reserves coming back...

[Fix]

Starting with this Khornate formation.

 

 

With a lil D kicker to boot!

[pretre]

Hmm. If it's worth it to take a claw. How much do those cost points wise?

[WestRider]

The Kharybdis is 260 Points. Having to take a full 20 Berzerkers is pretty nuts, too. 650+ Points for the whole thing.

 

And the Blood Angels actually beat them to the Assault from Reserves thing, but the Angel's Fury Strikeforce is even more expensive.

[Fix]

Did they?  Huh.  Missed that one.

[WestRider]

Did they?  Huh.  Missed that one.

It was a White Dwarf exclusive. Requires three Storm Ravens, too, so I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually use it.

[AbusePuppy]

I... don't think this actually allows you to assault the turn you come from reserves. Unlike a Drop Pod, models aren't forced to disembark the turn the Kharybdis arrives, and the rule doesn't have any text specifically superseding the "no assaults from reserve" clause in the rulebook.

 

It arguably is supposed to (although that's hardly clear), but I don't think by the rules it does at all.

[Guest]

On a side note, I've got two Dreadclaws from OOP FW CSM if someone wants to propose a trade.

[Fix]

I... don't think this actually allows you to assault the turn you come from reserves. Unlike a Drop Pod, models aren't forced to disembark the turn the Kharybdis arrives, and the rule doesn't have any text specifically superseding the "no assaults from reserve" clause in the rulebook.

 

It arguably is supposed to (although that's hardly clear), but I don't think by the rules it does at all.

 

Really?  Really?

[Cortland]

While I agree with the Abuse_Puppy on RAW, I do feel the RAI is pretty clear here. It is unfortunate though that a ruling will probably have to be made on this in the tournament scene as it is not directly stating that the codex (formation) rule over rides the Big Book.

[pretre]

On a side note, I've got two Dreadclaws from OOP FW CSM if someone wants to propose a trade.

Shoot me a pm with pics maybe we can work something out.

[AbusePuppy]

Really?  Really?

 

Yeah guy. GW often doesn't write rules that mean what they think they mean.

 

For example, right now Shadow Captain Shrike is essentially unusable. Between his own rules and the Infiltrate FAQ, he cannot start the game joined to any unit unless you get lucky and roll up Master of Ambush with someone else as the warlord and nominate some Jump Infantry for it. What GW wants his rules to do is let him Infiltrate with a unit of Assault Marines, but that is not at all what his rules actually say.

 

Similarly, the rules for the formation above don't bypass the "from reserves" restriction at all. Unless you think that giving them permission to assault is somehow a blanket immunity to all the normal rules of the game? In which case, hell, I'm gonna use that formation to assault some Flyers and FMCs and ruin those jerks. 'Cause I get to ignore all limitations on charges, right, not just selectively picking and choosing two or three of them that my opponent approves of?

 

As I said, I can see what GW was maybe trying to do with it, but they're such colossal f*ckups that they completely missed the mark. Don't get angry at other players because GW is bad at having the rules do what they think they should.

[Fix]

Heh, all right man.  Have it your way.  There's no need to bring Shrike into this.

[Talonwinter]

What are the rules for the assault claw?

 

Wanting to make sure I understand the formation before I add 2 cents worth.

[AbusePuppy]

It's a Transport Skimmer, capacity 20, and has the Assault Vehicle rule; those are the relevant parts to the issue at hand. It also has Drop Pod assault and a bunch of other wacky stuff, but none of that actually affects anything here.

[generalripphook]

Hungry for blood, the unit can assault the same turn it dissembarks for the transport.

 

They deep strike, dissembark and then assault.

 

Although actually I do see abusepuppies point about the no assault from reserves however I would never pull that move on someone.

[Chappy]

Hungry for blood, the unit can assault the same turn it dissembarks for the transport.

 

They deep strike, dissembark and then assault.

 

Although actually I do see abusepuppies point about the no assault from reserves however I would never pull that move on someone.

Hell, I would! Khorne Berzerkers need all the help they can get. Over costed unit that rarely, if EVER, gets into combat.

[generalripphook]

What I meant was I would always let them Assault from reserves.

[Guest]

Yeah guy. GW often doesn't write rules that mean what they think they mean.

 

For example, right now Shadow Captain Shrike is essentially unusable. Between his own rules and the Infiltrate FAQ, he cannot start the game joined to any unit unless you get lucky and roll up Master of Ambush with someone else as the warlord and nominate some Jump Infantry for it. What GW wants his rules to do is let him Infiltrate with a unit of Assault Marines, but that is not at all what his rules actually say.

I'm not finding any infiltration/Shrike FAQ on the GW site. Perhaps an ITC thing?

 

Only bit I can find is that an IC without infiltrate cannot join a unit with infiltrate. Not finding anything to suggest that a unit without infiltrate can't be joined by an IC with infiltrate.

 

As for GW and their debateably viable rules, I personally think that they write them with an understanding that redundant rules may not be redundant when the next edition arrives. Like armies with acute senses and night vision in 5th - they used to be the same thing and now do two different things.

[pretre]

Umm. Acute senses does outflank rerolls and night vision ignores night vision, right?

[Guest]

Umm. Acute senses does outflank rerolls and night vision ignores night vision, right?

Read the post.

Like armies with acute senses and night vision in 5th - they used to be the same thing and now do two different things.

[Cortland]

This is similar to elysia rules for 1st turn their flyers get assault ramps for first turn from reserve but they can't utilize because the rule book overrides it saying they may not assault from reserve

[InfestedKerrigan]

AP, how do you figure it doesn't allow it?  The BRB says that other Print Material supersedes it, correct?  The "No Assault after Deep Strike" is a BRB rule.  The Formation allows for it.  

 

That is, I don't see how you draw your point of view.  

[Cortland]

The rule doesn't specifically mention reserve. The models in that vehicle have the option to stay in it after deep strike

[InfestedKerrigan]

An option sounds like a choice.  They choose not to remain in the vehicle.  They choose to disembark.  The rule triggers, saying they can go ahead and assault this turn, because they disembarked, period.  Assault Vehicle allows for assaulting after disembarking, but it is a BRB rule, just like no assault after deep strike.  Non-BRB rules in conflict with the BRB Clown the BRB. Or does the BRB no longer say as much?  I'm not near my book, so can't confirm.  

[AbusePuppy]

I'm not finding any infiltration/Shrike FAQ on the GW site.

It's in the current FAQ, it was the most recent update to the BRB one. It prohibits characters with Infiltrate from joining units without it (and vice versa), which was the alteration from the original BRB version.

 

AP, how do you figure it doesn't allow it?  The BRB says that other Print Material supersedes it, correct?  The "No Assault after Deep Strike" is a BRB rule.  The Formation allows for it.  

 

That is, I don't see how you draw your point of view.  

 

Alright, lemme spell it out. The formation allows you to launch an assault after disembarking from the vehicle- this overrules the standard prohibition against doing so. However, this is not an overriding permission to break all the rules against assaulting- it doesn't allow you to launch an assault while Pinned, for example, or while already locked in combat, or while falling back, or against units that can't normally be assaulted (such as FMCs or flyers.) In short, it only overrides the restriction against assaulting imposed on you by the actions implicitly mentioned (disembarking from a vehicle) because otherwise you get absurd results.

 

"No assaulting from reserve" is not implicit to the ability, and thus is not overriden by it in the same way that not launching an assault while Pinned is not overriden.