indytims Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Don't forget Plasma Oblits. :) (Just so happened that this worked out for me against NV in our game.) I wish there was an "Unlike" button for posts!!! (*@#$ Plasma Oblits. I still haven't healed from that thing! ;) Sorry. Back to the Machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I gotcha. I see what you are saying. Infiltrators aren't a very competitive unit. Don't forget Plasma Oblits. :) (Just so happened that this worked out for me against NV in our game.) Don't forget also, tho, that I was running right around 800 points of Kastellans and they mostly just hung out and punched drop pods. They are a tough nut to crack, but did they really do 800 points worth of work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 They certainly are everything that went near them. Those bastardsx were mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 It's not "they're T3 and thus worthless," because being T3 is only a minor strike against Vanguard/Rangers (and both of those are pretty good units.) The problem is that most of their defenses (FNP, W2, sometimes armor as well) are negated by very common weapons in the game, so you're effectively paying 35pts for a one-wound guy with a 4+ save. Don't forget that building explosions are resolved at S6 ignores cover for the embarked unit. I firmly agree with AP that issue is the multi-wound and FNP which are so commonly negated. Even there, if they were cheaper, it wouldn't be an issue. No beef with T3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 So... Tonight's game... My infiltrator killed how many terminators on his own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 So... Tonight's game... My infiltrator killed how many terminators on his own? I have waited in suspense for nearly 24 hours. Were we supposed to be playing Family Feud? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Steel Angel knows... I think the infiltrator princep took down 6 Grey knights terms on his own. He actually ended up getting shut down when a scout squad charged in and added to it. Pro tip - Always purchase the conversion field on an infiltrator princep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't think Steel Angel has participated in AgentPs AdMech thread. His knowledge is useless to me. Did you get some pics taken, AP? Or was the weekends hobby time spent on Marine Conceptualizing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 No, the hobby time was spent on housework, alas. I need to get my butt in gear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I don't think Steel Angel has participated in AgentPs AdMech thread. His knowledge is useless to me. Survival Is Nothing Data Is All. No Knowledge is Useless. So a 10 point Conversion Field Upgrade provides a model with a 4++. When the Invuln is passed the surrounding units test initiative or are blinded (ws goes to 1) With Infiltrators Neurostatic Aura an opponents models suffer a -1 to initiative- so even marines have a chance of being blinded. We were playing it as his Terms WS was now 1- but is the Neurostatic Aura associated with Infiltrators cumulative with Blind? Would the two affects push an opponents WS to 0? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Most of the other examples I've seen of stuff like this seem to have ended up with a really awkward resolution via "Player whose Turn it is gets to decide the order of simultaneously applied effects". So basically, they'd be WS0 on your Turn and WS1 on your Opponent's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Set values are always done last, after all other modifiers (in the base rules for modifiers). Think that applies here but don't have exact wordings of blind and Infiltrators handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Yeah, Blind is a characteristic-setting effect and is always applied last. Multiply or divide first, then add or subtract, then value-setting effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Oh yeah. Nurr :P For some reason, I always remembered that during 6th, but forget it all the time in 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 It's nifty either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Yeah, Blind is a characteristic-setting effect and is always applied last. Multiply or divide first, then add or subtract, then value-setting effects. Blind is the one that looks awesome on paper, but the opponent is always immune or unaffected by it every time I try to field it in my army.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Well, it's not nearly as bad as Fear in that respect (Fear never works), but it isn't exactly reliable, no. However, when it does work- and it works against the vast majority of units and armies in the game- it's a very powerful effect; reducing MEQs to WS/BS1 can really change the flow of a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I've managed to blind things with Tyranid Gargoyles several times. Most notably good against Necrons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Before they got Stomp Attacks, it was hilarious when it worked on WraithKnights, too. Pretty much always got an extra game turn worth of tarpitting out of that :D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Well, it's not nearly as bad as Fear in that respect (Fear never works), but it isn't exactly reliable, no. However, when it does work- and it works against the vast majority of units and armies in the game- it's a very powerful effect; reducing MEQs to WS/BS1 can really change the flow of a fight. The only strong point on fear is that its passive. Yeah, the player has to remember, but you don't need to hit or wound, they just always test for it (or don't test). It still barely comes up, as almost everything is immune The main application (and only time you should remember it) is regarding non-WS vehicles with fear. Vehicles are WS1, so a failed fear test by the opponent means they hit you on 4s instead of 3s. All super heavy vehicles have fear, and you can buff some things with fear too. This matters when the opponent sends their MB guardsmen or EMP firewarriors after your baneblade/imperial knight. New DA Darkshroud, in example, grants fear and stealth to DA in range (including DA vehicles). Stealth is certainly the better, but fear is a good one to remember against some opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Any competent player is going to have a Priest along with MB Guard, so they'll be Fearless anyhow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Any competent player is going to have a Priest along with MB Guard, so they'll be Fearless anyhow. I don't think that's fair. I mean, if the MB guard are regarded as a throw away unit, then not having a priest is entirely reasonable. It adds a kill point and some extra cost. And even there, the MB guard isn't what charge vehicles from the initial prospect, as the AM have much better AT options than that - the MB guard is for the more desperate AM player. But anyway, I do think fear is good to remember for the vehicles that have it. It's a good one for some opponents, if you remember, even if the effects of a failed fear test are marginal defensive improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Fear works great against my orks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Fear works great against my orks! Sisters too. Learned recently that they don't have ATSKNF.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 27, 2015 Report Share Posted June 27, 2015 Unless they have a priest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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