Don't Panic Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 so not to be a bad egg but ive definitely been at the wrong end of the stick to some bad rules interpretations of this i think. so ill make this post for others to also bring about their thoughts about it in case im missing something as well! so ive had a few opponents that think that guided means 'auto-hits'. no, this is definitely WRONG. all it means is you make a roll with your BS+6 ignoring all other modifiers. so you definitely have to make a roll! also saying you get no AROs is also wrong. there are a few that take place for sure after reading up on it! 1. so the cool thing about guided is the lack of need for LoF which would mean generally your opponent gets no AROs. BUT(this is an insanely huge but ) almost all guided missiles are impact templates. impact templates infer a -3 dodge attempt ARO regardless of line of sight. so this means generally you will have a F2F with an active +6 BS B1(cause thats guided mode) guided weapon vs a -3 dodge(and other modifiers if REM or TAG). 2. Now if your opponent has a hacker they have a U-turn aro that adds a -3 to the guided state changing it to just a +3 BS(or if you have EVO repeater) 3. If your target has ECM(which is why i looked this up cause i was told i get no reaction even if i have ECM which just seemed weird to me cause wtf is the point of ECM then?), they can straight up cancel the +6 BS for guided and if you have a hacker you can make it a -3BS. if they declare ECM, they(TAGs) cant dodge though because that is their ARO! see pg 106 for guided and the perfect example of how guided works is strangely under ECM on pg 136. so yea, although guided is awesome, its not an autohit and it can even be a less than 50% chance of hitting against certain TAGs... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisetiger7 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm glad I can preemptively learn for your guys' past mistakes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 There is also some limit on the number of times a guided weapon can be used i believe. But yeah... Guided autohit? Thats kinda nuts, especially when it gives you a bs bonus....what would be the point of a bs bonus if it autohits? Glad you figured this one out, dp! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yeah five guided shots per unit per turn I believe. DP, I think your read on it is exactly right. I remember we had a game a few weeks ago where we had to look a lot of this up but I think we came to those same conclusions. Guided is scary because it can negate total cover, but it's not a strategy I use very often (despite having Traktor Mul) because it takes so much to get a mark on a target and then drop bombs on them. When forward observing you often expose yourself to a lot of AROs and it very often takes a few attempts to get it in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yeah Don't Panic, you're absolutely right. Whomever you were playing may have been in an old rules mindset. The best thing about playing so many different people is learning all the different rules. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedPanda Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 In 2nd it was a hit. Thankfully in 3rd the rules changed for the better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedPanda Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 You can always dodge at a -3ph unless stated otherwise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Nah I'm pretty sure we were both noobtastic and he interpreted it wrong and I didn't know enough about it to question it. It's all good, I just won't fall for that again. Does make me think that the Marut is a lot better than I thought after misplaying the crap out of it lol. Considering traitor muls are bs10 you would be hitting the Marut on 7s and that's assuming you get it FOd without getting shot by a bs15 explosive aro hmg shot. This noob has a lot to learn lol. This game is HARD! I like it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Guided grants +6 mod to bs shooting (cancels other mods) and allows for shots anywhere on the board. Mul would be hitting on 16 with guided. However, the Murat has ECm, which cancels the +6 of guided when used as an ARO. So next time people shoot guided missiles at your big TAG, remember that canceling the +6 mod might be a safer bet than dodging at -9 (TAG and template). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also, guided shots can be ARO hacked if the target is within hacking range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also, guided shots can be ARO hacked if the target is within hacking range. Read the last line of u-turn description. Anywhere on the board is a pretty nice hacking range ;) yea I'm a smartass.. also no lof needed. It's automatic kinda like the hacking drop troops thing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Read the last line of u-turn description. Anywhere on the board is a pretty nice hacking range ;) yea I'm a smartass.. also no lof needed. It's automatic kinda like the hacking drop troops thing Nice find, thanks :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 On that note though brings up an interesting question. If you target the hacker with guided I don't think they can perform u-turn and dodge because that would be 2 AROs from the same source? Curious what the veterans think about that.. would make it extra beneficial for guided lists to go witch hunting for the hacker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I would say that's correct. You get one aro. U-turn is auto, but dodge would be f2f. Sincerely, definitely not a veteran player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I agree but am not 100%. I'll ask Jake or Matt tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 So with ECM and a Hacker with U-Turn on your side, the Mul would still be hitting your TAG on a 7, right? (BS 10, no +6 since it was cancelled by ECM, -3 for the U-Turn program that looks like it is automatic?). Not too shabby! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Gould Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 You can always dodge at a -3ph unless stated otherwise For templates, that is correct, but non-template weapons can only be dodged if the target has Line of Fire to the attacker. Change Facing is similar to a dodge (at a Phys-3), but requires that either the attacker is in the target's Zone of Control or the target has an ally that declared Alert as an ARO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedPanda Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Was talking about the guided shot but yeppers! All this is why I value sixth sense so highly. Don't forget your link teams get it!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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