Help me, I have a plasic addiction!

[warprat]

So, for years I have been buying Space Marines.  I have starter boxes, I have a full battle company box, complete with rhinos. I have Battle Force boxes, etc...  All of them are unassembled.  Last week I pulled everything out and found stuff I didn't even think I had.  Scouts, bikes, speeders, etc...

 

Of all my minis, I "have" assembled two boxes of Black Reach tacticals and termies.  Two boxes of Battle for Macragge tacticals and all the marines from a Dark Vengeance set.  Nothing is painted. 

 

Poor me, I know, right?  But here is the problem.   I am totally ignorant in the ways of properly assembling and painting all these guys.

 

 

 

This week, after I finished assembling the Dark Vengeance set and gluing it up, I noticed that the chest areas were now covered by the bolter, and that this was probably going to make painting much harder.  I also noticed that the models have really nice shoulder detail that stands out, and should really help my novice painting non-abilities.

 

I saw Vengeance tacticals going on ebay for $11.  I bought 6...   plus a slightly damaged Dark Vengeance box on amazon for $82.  And I bought other bits and things, like combi-flamers on ebay.  Plus, I am the proud owner of 5 used, (some very) metal dreadnoughts that averaged about $25 each.  And I bought some 3rd party conversion bits for whirlwinds and razorbacks from puppetwar with a 15% discount on Black Friday.

 

I am insane.  I know it... totally out of control and bonkers.  My wife, may just decide to kill me... justifiably.

 

 

Today, Cyber Monday, I looked at the Betrayal at Calth box.  It is on sale at Frontline Gaming.  I would like to support them by purchasing something.  I so want the missile launchers!  But I resisted...  so maybe there is hope.

 

 

 

My dream is to paint these guys black, and use them as a successor chapter.  I noticed in the space marine codex that there are lots of chapters painted black.  Also, the pre-heresy Dark Angels were, well, dark. Before they were green and bone colored.  So, I could use some of the minis to make an early traitor force, that got stuck in the warp.  I know other people are doing this too.

 

Am I stupid to think this way? 

 

 

 

 

I could use a few good links on how to properly clip, trim and file,  There are so many tutorials, I just get confused.

 

 

I found this at Bolter and Chainsword for black:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/284451-captain-volos-black-armour-tutorial/

 

 

 

And I found this for painting with markers:

 

 

 

 

Can a basic table top paint job be as easy as painting the black, then using markers, and finally gluing them together?  What would you do, if you could do it all over again?

 

 

 

I don't want to ruin good minis...  Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

 

 

 

[AbusePuppy]

Removing from the sprue and cleaning up mold lines is fairly easy, though time-consuming; I usually do it while on a break at work, when watching TV, etc- times when you can't really focus on anything intensive, but can while a way at it for a bit. A pair of clippers, a hobby/x-acto knife, and a small set of files (available for ~$10 from most hobby stores or online) are all of the tools you need. Newer kits are a lot better than the old ones in terms of how easy to clean- stuff like the new vehicle/MC kits and the Tactical box hardly need any cleaning at all.

 

Your main goal in clipping stuff off the sprue is just to minimize the amount of "garbage" plastic stuff attached to each piece without damaging it. I suggest clipping with the "flat" side of your cutters towards the model, as this typically gives the cleanest cut. Be careful about any pieces that may try to fly off, as it can be a pain in the a** to find them if they go long. Once you have everything off the sprues, you'll start doing the cleanup, which I generally two in two steps- first, remove all of the large plastic chunks of sprue where each bit was attached to the mold; be careful not to cut away any (or at least not too much) of the bit itself, as it's easy to leave an ugly, flat cut along stuff like shoulder pads or legs. This is the step where it's easiest to cut yourself, so be careful where that knife is pointed. Once you have the "gross" cleanup done, you can get started on the finer stuff, i.e. removing mold lines. I won't lie- this can be pretty tedious, especially if you have one of the plastic kits that dates back to 4th Edtion, but if you want good-looking models it's an important job. If you don't have files you can get by using your knife to "scrape" the mold lines off, but a decent set of files will be both quicker and better, so I would recommend it- and they're a tool you'll always be able to use in this hobby and last essentially forever. It's usually not hard to find the "seam" running down each piece where the mold was split, and you want to file that down so it is no longer noticable- when in doubt, try running your finger carefully over it to try and detect if there's a bump left. (Note that many times when you file it down, a white "line" will still be visible where the mold line used to be, but this is just the internal color of the plastic underneath.)

 

The marker tutorial is an interesting idea, but to be quite honest I think there are easier ways. Painting takes practice- everyone's first mini looks awful. Ask any of our talented painters here- every one of them started with models that they would be embarrassed to have seen now, but that's just how it is. You learn by doing, and there's no real way around that. How to hold a brush, how to draw up paint onto the bristles, how to judge lighting- all of these are things that come from experience. If your first minis don't turn out as good as you'd like, post pictures for critique, ask for help, and keep working at it.

 

That said, there are some things that can drastically improve how your minis look as a beginner. First of all, choose the right primer for the colors you're painting- trying to paint red, white, or yellow over black primer is a nightmare, and similarly trying to get a uniform black over white primer can be a disaster. The Citadel foundation paints are actually pretty good for getting smooth, even coverage, though they aren't a panacea. Washes, however, are basically talent in a bottle- I would strongly recommend getting some of them. The GW washes are perfectly good, if a little more expensive than some others, but I find that I don't go through enough washes for that to be a huge issue. A bottle each of the brown, black, and sepia washes (plus maybe whatever color you want for your mini's base scheme) is a great investment for most everyone.

 

Whether you paint before or after assembly is something that falls to personal preference. I know people who do it both ways, and there are advantages to each; prepainting lets you get all the detail you want on all the parts, but you can't see the mini as a whole when choosing your scheme and details and it's easy to spend a lot of time painting parts that are completely invisible when assembled. Assembling first is my personal choice- I like being able to play with models, even if they aren't painted yet, and to my mind if something is hard to reach with a brush it will also be hard to see, so the actual loss of detail is pretty small.

 

Painting black as a scheme can be surprisingly hard. The big secret essentially boils down to one thing: don't use black for black. Mix your black with some other very dark color (dark blue/green/red/purple, depending) because pure black actually obscures detail and makes it impossible to shade the model, so washes/etc will do nothing (because you can't go any darker than black, obviously.) There's lots of good tutorials around on the subject, though, so I won't go into a lot of detail on that.

[warprat]

Thanks for your long and helpful reply AbusePuppy.   I have read many of your posts, and always find them thoughtful and well written.

 

 

So, maybe something like this:

 

1) Spray paint black primer.  Is it worth it to buy an air brush?

2) Paint Eshin Grey.

3) Highlight with markers (or if they look ass, use paint.)

4) Wash with Nuln Oil.

5) Paint on Lahmian Medium to remove gloss and seal colors.  Is there a good spray for this?

 

 

One last silly question, do you like to be addressed in posts with your full name, AbusePuppy.  Or do you like to be responded to as "Abuse" or "Puppy?"  LOL!

[AbusePuppy]

An airbrush is great for applying basecoats en masse- however, just like painting, there is a learning curve to getting the hang of using one. If all you're going to do is apply primer (or only have a relatively small collection of models to do, such as a single 2000pt army) it's probably going to be more trouble than it's worth. I use generic outdoor house primer- Krylon works well in my experience, as do most store brands.

 

I'm not familiar with the GW greys and blacks specifically, but if you're going for "black" armor you'll want some actual black, a dark grey, and a medium grey; essentially, you'll coat everything with the black (or the dark red/green/blue/purple, as mentioned before) as your "under" layer- this will be what you leave showing in joints, recesses, and the undersides of parts where there should be shadows. Your next layer will be the "base" layer that will be most of the parts of your armor- this would be a mix of the black you just used and the dark grey, with the exact ratio depending on just how dark you want their armor to look. This covers all of the places except the joints/recesses/etc where you want your "under" layer showing. If you're using a wash, you'll do that next- just kinda put it on where there are detail bits, like grips of weapons, anywhere there's a groove in the army, anyplace where two armor points meet, etc- anywhere you'd find a shadow. This helps to "smooth out" the transition between the two colors as well as fill in details and, if you're really lazy, you could skip the "under" layer entirely and just rely on the wash to do the work for you. Finally you'll have your highlights, which will be done with the undiluted dark grey and some of the medium grey in a few select spots on top- again, depending on how much work you want to put into things.

 

I can't really speak to the marker method- I've never used it myself and I'm not enough of an artiste to give you a real opinion on things. However, a lot of the so-called "shortcuts" to models end up being as difficult or more than just painting the old-fashioned way, but without the benefit of teaching you good painting skills.

 

GW sells a dullcoat spray, although the name escapes me at the moment- it's same stuff as their paint-on varieties. If you're a cheapskate, lots of other companies also sell such products for significantly less, although I would steer away from Testors if I were you, as I've heard little but bad things about them. You can find the alternative brands at most hobby or craft stores.

 

 

I'm not picky about how folks address me- AbusePuppy, Abuse, Puppy, AP, Sean, whatever you find most convenient. Just remember it's "abuse" the noun, not "to abuse" the verb. :P

[Lord Hanaur]

My friend who is somewhat of a pro when it comes to painting, strongly suggests painting the components before assembling them into their whole.

 

The considerable lengths he goes to in order to get every detail, including at times painting them on the sprue to an extent and/or putting the assembled head/leg/whatever on sticks does wonders for his level of control on the model and the results...  I mean...  It's really impressive.

 

Based on those pics he's been sending me, I strongly recommend doing things in their component parts first.  The results are spectacular.

[warprat]

My friend who is somewhat of a pro when it comes to painting, strongly suggests painting the components before assembling them into their whole.

 

The considerable lengths he goes to in order to get every detail, including at times painting them on the sprue to an extent and/or putting the assembled head/leg/whatever on sticks does wonders for his level of control on the model and the results...  I mean...  It's really impressive.

 

Based on those pics he's been sending me, I strongly recommend doing things in their component parts first.  The results are spectacular.

 

 

Oh, that sounds like a great idea.   Painting the guns and bits on the sprue, and then snipping and touching them up.  Brilliant, thanks so much.

[PourSpelur]

You have a paint scheme you like or just looking for something easy?

If you're going for grey, I'd prime white or grey instead of black. Trying to apply a lighter color over dark is an uphill battle. Grey and metal trim could look really sharp, maybe add an accent color to add some pop. Green with gold trim would be an interesting combo over grey inho.

Something like this+

Prime grey, heavy black wash over everything, paint armor grey, trim gold, accent pieces green, light black wash over everything to tie it together.

Easy as it gets! Try it out on 4 or 5 guys, you can always strip the paint easily if you don't seal it. I love metal models for testing schemes because they're really easy to strip and try something different.

[warprat]

Sounds promising!   What is the purpose of the heavy black wash?  Is it to give the grey paint some shading in the recesses?

 

Thanks, sounds fairly challenging for my meager skills, but I think I could do it.  

 

 

I'm not in love with the black color scheme.  What colors would really work well together, if I was to use the silver, gold, and/or copper metal?

[PourSpelur]

Nailed it in one! Black for the recesses/creases etc.

Any color works for Marines, there's a bazillion successor and/or do-it-yourself chapters. There's also a bunch of colored primers to make them even easier! Have a lesser known chapter you like the look or fluff for?

Want clean and crisp? Bright and shiny? Beat and weathered (my personal favorite)?

Have a favorite sports team? Most pro teams have great color combos and if done well they won't look like assault Marines from Denveros Broncon IV.

[Lord Hanaur]

I love drakkenhoff shade. So good. Aka agrax earthshade

[warprat]

Found them, dark blue and dark brown...

[PourSpelur]

Dark blue and brown color scheme? Primers? Washes?

There's also the dip method if you're looking to quickly get large amounts of stuff painted to a decent, tabletop method. Colored primer, quick accent color, metallic pen, dip and done!

[warprat]

Thanks so much for your posts PourSpelur! 

 

 

I do have lots of mini's to do.  I have read that one advantage of dipping is that it provides a very tough coating.   What would you use for the dip?

 

 

I will have to do any heavy painting on my front porch, so I have some time to plan everything out before the weather turns.  As far as colors go, I am completely overwhelmed, and have no idea on which direction to go...

 

 

Maybe something like this:

 

 

 

 

 

I could use gold and black pen, perhaps...  I guess white paint for the raised shoulder emblems.   Ideas?

[PourSpelur]

1) Pic doesn't work which sucks because I'm dying to know what direction you're thinking

2) I believe I used Minwax Dark Oak on my Nurgle Guard and I'm ridiculously happy with it! Didn't actually dip them, painted it on with a big brush really quickly.

3) Your screen name is probably "Warp Rat" but I always read it as "War Prat". Not germane to the discussion at all but it makes me picture a baby Commisar and smile.

[Guest]

My friend who is somewhat of a pro when it comes to painting, strongly suggests painting the components before assembling them into their whole.

 

The considerable lengths he goes to in order to get every detail, including at times painting them on the sprue to an extent and/or putting the assembled head/leg/whatever on sticks does wonders for his level of control on the model and the results...  I mean...  It's really impressive.

 

Based on those pics he's been sending me, I strongly recommend doing things in their component parts first.  The results are spectacular.

Very dependent on how you think the model "should" look.

 

Lately, I've been doing priming, then partial assembly, then painting, then full assembly, then more painting. The partial assembly does require a good study of the instructions, as you can really goof things up. I've also gotten rather reliant on using (milliput) black stuff which matches the color of my primer.

 

It does take a while to complete models this way, and it can be rather discouraging to have an entire army that isn't ready to see the table.

 

EDIT: As for black models, the DA Consecrators (my army, but a codex one) currently uses the old DA black armor for their forces. Black Templars and Iron Hands also feature black armies. The Death Spectres are also black armored.

[Lord Hanaur]

Well it's a step that can really impact the quality of paint but naturally the downside will be that its slower.  He is painting a couple models for me and its gone real slow but the results are pretty cool.

[warprat]

1) Pic doesn't work which sucks because I'm dying to know what direction you're thinking

2) I believe I used Minwax Dark Oak on my Nurgle Guard and I'm ridiculously happy with it! Didn't actually dip them, painted it on with a big brush really quickly.

3) Your screen name is probably "Warp Rat" but I always read it as "War Prat". Not germane to the discussion at all but it makes me picture a baby Commisar and smile.

 

Oh darn, it showed up in the post, and now it's gone...

 

Well, it was dark angels green for base color.  Gold highlights around shoulder trim and eagle on chest.  Black eyes, mouth grill and gun (with gun metal... I could also go bronze or silver with metallic pen? ).  White emblems on shoulders (but could be metallic silver?). 

 

There are other sharpie markers as well.  Red, green, purple, black, blue, orange, yellow, etc...   Some of them are called permanent paint markers, and are made to be used on metal, pottery, wood, plastic, etc...

 

 

About warprat... it is actually a combination of the "warp" and the "Stainless Steel Rat" by Harry Harrison.   I have an avatar picture that Harry Harrison the author drew, and which I found and appropriated.  I used the name in desperation after about 10 different tries with something more heroic sounding, LOL.

 

Some how, some people get war-prat out of it, and I can't figure out why...  When I typed "prat" into the online dictionary it came up with "the buttocks."  Do I resemble a butt?  Maybe a butt head, because I am so smart, LOL!

 

 

[WestRider]

"Prat" is also British slang for someone who's a buffoon or idiot, kind of like how we'd call someone an @$$. More or less the same derivation, really.

 

Honestly, when you're starting out painting, I would do at least partial assembly before painting. Legs, torso, backpack at minimum, ranging up to everything except shoulderpads and the weapon itself, or even full assembly. For people who are really good, and have a ton of experience, they can get substantial improvements from painting bits separately, but for the rest of us, it doesn't really make that much difference in most cases, and it can add a lot of time, especially if you paint stuff on the sprue, and then have to clean it up to glue it together and touch up the bits where it was attached to the sprue.

[Lord Hanaur]

 

"Prat" is also British slang for someone who's a buffoon or idiot, kind of like how we'd call someone an @$$. More or less the same derivation, really.

 

as in, someone who prattles.