VonVilkee Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 So I was playing around with a list to feature my two tech Marines and dreads... Silliness has happened! Basis is 1250 any additional points will be dreads! Fist of Medusa task force: iron hands decurion +1 to feel no pain for models within 12" of an independent character. Power of the machine spirit for vehicles with in same. Armored task force: ignore shaken and stunned with in 6" of Techmarine (IC or Thunderfire) from this part and techie gets +1 repair. Techmarine conversion beamer, iron stone. Thunder fire Whirlwind Two base predators Now the silly feel no pain never dying? Strike force command: Captain in cataphractii terminator armor (slow and purposeful) relic that's Melta gun and Bolter both master crafted and relic blade. Command squad apothecary no other upgrade Techmarine full harness (iron hands can add up to three techies for each hq to detatchments) Chapter master Gorgon's chain twin lightning cataphractii armor. 2 basic venerable dreads in one unit. So from here I see a super hard unit... That chapter master has a 2+ armor, 3++ Rerolling 1s, eternal warrior, 2+ feel no pain. The other characters and command are no slouches with a 3+ feel no pain. Calculation narthecium 5+, iron hands +1, formation +1 as long as ICs live, Gorgon's chain for master +1. Even the dreads will be survivable 4+ it will not die close to conversion beamer dude... Conversion beamer gets to move and shoot. More points equals more dreads with better load outs. Silly yes, good prolly not, big question is would you play it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Why not? It's not really all that difficult to hit a guy with str8+ to get rid of the FnP roll. Given that that unit is more or less your only threatening unit I don't see a problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Now get him a bike, some thunderwolf friends and a librarius conclave and you got something. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Now get him a bike, some thunderwolf friends and a librarius conclave and you got something. :) Rough to keep the full 2+ feel no pain I was at first just trying to get a whole lot of dreads and this base leaves me with 600 points to add more dreads! Looking at the Thunderfire I might drop it for more clanking cans of ancient Heroes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I don't think chapter master has access to cataphractii armor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Any model in terminator armor can use cataphractii instead is what I remember reading under the armory entry for it. I'll double check the book tonight. Thanks for the audit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Nope. I just looked it up. The Cataphractii Captain and Squad are Units that can be taken in place of the regular Captain and Terminator Squad. And the Cataphractii Captain doesn't have the option to upgrade to a Chapter Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Thank you for the correction! Fine drop the captain change the master to a captain add the Melta gun thing to a Techmarine... And add another dread! Yay try and double me out with all that armor around to shoot at instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Add in some BA library dreads and toss around those cool new Technomancy spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Thank you for the correction! Fine drop the captain change the master to a captain add the Melta gun thing to a Techmarine... And add another dread! Yay try and double me out with all that armor around to shoot at instead... If the dreads could buzzsaw units like old blood talon BA dreads could and you'd have something there. Unfortunately GW has made dreads less and less relevant. It would be lucky to get through a combat squad in 2 assault rounds. It's just not enough damage to warrant anything more than incidental fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 I'm intrigued by using power of the machine spirit to allow me split fire but big squads. I think a couple in each squad, instead of singles, will actually draw fire. The predators I'm keeping cheap and using to score objectives possibly. It will be interesting going with out obsec but entertaining I think... With the buff to it will not die for a squadron hanging close to the aggressive Techmarine I'm looking at venerable dreads the ws5 makes a surprising difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Nope. I just looked it up. The Cataphractii Captain and Squad are Units that can be taken in place of the regular Captain and Terminator Squad. And the Cataphractii Captain doesn't have the option to upgrade to a Chapter Master. I'm now wondering what the survival math on the extra wound vs the possibility of Rerolling the invulnerable is such a hard thing to factor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Depends on what's hitting him. Against Instant Death stuff, the re-roll on 1s is better, because the Gorgon's Chain loses Eternal Warrior after 2 Wounds suffered, so the third one that gets through will take either down. Against S<7 AP2 stuff, it takes 12 Wounds hitting the Invul to strip all 4 Wounds. Re-rolling 1s, the Storm Shield lets through 2/9 Wounds, so taking out 3 Wounds takes 27/2=13.5 Wounds. The Chapter Master will also get more chances to heal back up with IWND and is less vulnerable to a run of bad luck, but I still think I'd usually go with the Cataphractii Captain, since he's also cheaper. I left FNP out of the equation, because it's exactly the same for both of them, so no reason to muck things up further with it. It does cut down on the "run of bad luck" issue, tho, so it's a further argument for the Captain. The flipside is if you end up getting slammed with a ton AP3 or worse stuff. The Cataphractii Armour does nothing to help your regular Armour Save, so the extra Wound clearly wins out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Pretty much the same I was thinking... He will be running with the command squad and iron stone/conversion beamer Techmarine to give them slow and purposeful. That is also the big reason no guns on the command squad fnp extra wounds is how I'm viewing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 wait wait wait... when you take a character as part of a detatchment like a dicurion style.. does it COUNT as an HQ and open up the ability to take a techmarine? I thought that was ONLY in CADs. please tell me this works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 wait wait wait... when you take a character as part of a detatchment like a dicurion style.. does it COUNT as an HQ and open up the ability to take a techmarine? I thought that was ONLY in CADs. please tell me this works. Saw your other post didn't even dawn on me to ask it really... Battle field role is retained regardless of way a specific model is taken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Yeah I have seen some arguments on this one, because it looks like they rewrote the original Raukkan rule but didn't quite make it work clearly in 7ed.. Its a tad unclear because 'HQ choice' is not clearly defined with a rule definition. Some seem to think it requires a FOC with a 'choice' of dataslates with HQ battle field roles (aka CAD or similar detachments) as opposed to Conclave which mandates HQ dataslates. I'm not sure that argument holds water though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 It wasn't even one I realized I should have... This thread has been eye opening. Battlefield role is battlefield role I thought... Regardless of how you built the battleforged army. The bit about not taking up focs slots I thought referred to the fact that you don't need them further allowing you to take Techmarines along side a captain, Librarian, or chaplain... In any detatchment (not formations as those say only the listed models) I can actually see the counter argument as it is not clearly written but the quick read is what usually works out to be. If you get too particular it all falls apart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 dicurion style You do understand that the Decurion is a specific formation, or rather, formation of formations? So regardless of battlefield role, that detachment can only include the listed models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 You do understand that the Decurion is a specific formation, or rather, formation of formations? So regardless of battlefield role, that detachment can only include the listed models. Nope. Decurion-class Detachments are Detachments, but not Formations, tho they (almost?) always do contain Formations. But they are consistently referred to as Detachments, and never as Formations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Nope. Decurion-class Detachments are Detachments, but not Formations, tho they (almost?) always do contain Formations. But they are consistently referred to as Detachments, and never as Formations. Really? Huh, well, then it looks like I have this one wrong, Sean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 I haven't taken the time to look at the specifics but others have taken up my argument well! The previous points are the ones. The Techmarine bit does specify detatchments may include a techmarine for each hq that isn't a techmarine and they do not take up a foc slot... I took that to mean I can't add them to formations but I can add them to the decurion detatchment... Small quibbles and so bad won't try and go to an itc points event and questionable enough I won't have an issue taking where I do... Jobs a good one from my perspective but I've really enjoyed the discourse and excited to see where it ends up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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