Blood Angels: ITC Tournament list - 1850ptc

[WestRider]

Yeah, I think a lot of what takes the sting out of things like the time my SW got shot off the table by Turn 3 by ScatBike spam and D-Cannon is knowing that I do have other stuff at home that I could have taken (even just within my SW) that would have handled that matchup just fine, and that my choice to build the Army around the Models I'd most recently painted was entirely my choice. If my collection as a whole didn't have anything that could deal, it would have been a much more depressing experience.

 

I should also add: Even tho I like Tournaments, there's nothing wrong with not liking them. You gave it a try, you didn't have fun, there's nothing wrong with sticking with what you know you will like, especially if your Gaming time is limited.

[AbusePuppy]

So just want to chime in. I don't hate losing. Losing is natural. But I don't enjoy getting completely annihilated because I don't learn anything from it other than "Don't play". Even a heavy loss means I can analyze whether or not it was my strategy, my dice or my units that failed me here. Being full on rolled over signals to me that either I failed all three at the same time or that the other army is impervious to anything short of a tailored list against their exact army. So I don't learn to improve short of "Buy a new army, newb". Which is where I am at currently.

 

I did say I came into this knowing BA wasn't top tier. That is an admission that it was going to be hard but not impossible which is what I was prepared. What I wasn't prepared for was "It would be impossible given normal ITC lists" which is what I feel at this time.

 

Was it fun? Not for me because I feel like there was nothing I could have done short of having the same army as the other players. That's just my take on it. Knowing what I know now, I will avoid the tournament scene. My last tournament was back in 4/5th edition with my PDF codex where I got middle of the pack and actually accomplish things. Now it just doesn't seem as possible unless I get real clever somehow (which is to say, not going to happen).

 

Well, as I said, you're well within your rights to not have enjoyed the list or results- it's your play experience, obviously. And if it's not doing it for you, there are options- as pretre suggested, you could switch to another chapter that might fit what you want to do better or add in allies to fill weaknesses in the army. Also as already mentioned, there are ways to improve the army you have or rebuild it into something stronger, presuming you have (or are willing to buy) the models needed.

 

The new BA detachments along with the earlier stuff do give them some nontrivial advantages- Initiative 5 on the charge is pretty huge. If I had to sum up your mistake with the army, it would be trying to build a "deathstar" from subpar components; fluff aside, BA simply aren't the best combatants around and haven't been for a long time now. That doesn't mean they can't do a solid melee army, but it's not going to be a huge blob of DC with characters attached that slams facefirst into the enemy. Mixing in the tanks I don't think did you a lot of favors, either- while it gave you some shooting capacity, it made eliminating all of your melee threats a lot easier for the enemy, as the list didn't have a strong focus.

 

If you really want to make BA work, we can make them work for you. It's not even a matter of "well you have to know the way of the water warrior and master these l337 skillz or anything of that sort- the tactics for them aren't trivial, but neither are they exceptionally complex. There's even a couple potential builds that I think have the "oomph" to at least come out swinging against most opponents, though admittedly I haven't actually done anything more than theorycraft them, so I can't speak from experience.

 

It is also worth noting that the competition at Guardian Cups is usually pretty fierce- you're looking at over half that room being top 10% of the ITC, and many of them top 5% or even higher than that. You played some tough opponents with tough lists, so don't feel like losing your matches was just because of some failing on your part.

[spagunk]

Paying for new units is going to be my biggest issue. I don't always have or can depend on having the extra cash to just buy units. The argument pretty much boils down to "buy a new army" which is really troublesome to accept.

 

The list I specifically posted was actually a revamp from another list which had turn two termies deep striking and then assaulting from deep strike (or 2x shooting). This was list was made by suggestion from an ITC player as they felt the LSF specifically added the shield needed to get DC into close combat. I think the worst part is that I had to chose whether to do a turn one smash fest (which opponents can deploy accordingly) or go second and see where the enemy deployed. Both armies I faced had every option available to either null deploy or deploy all at once to counter this. I guess, in hindsight, I am just used to people only choosing one option rather than have both options available at the same time.

 

The one army I did well on was the drunk guy who brought guardsmen with 4 russes (pask being one of them) and two artillery tanks (forget the name). Since they didn't have any deep striking/turn one deploy options I just ran full tilt and smashed everything. So with static armies I think my list would have done well but for mobile armies (more mobile than I oddly) I floundered. I did have the mobility to respond to threats but then it basically hit a brick wall. Especially for the Space marine guy who deployed 11 drop pods. With that, his turn one eliminated more than half my army with no real problems. It was just really harsh to have essentially a turn one elimination. Not saying he should have gone easy on me, just that his list was much more successful than I had ever thought possible. Definitely something I can't match with the BA codex.

[pretre]

Well, part of competitive 40k (ITC notwithstanding) has always been having a breadth of models available to you to be able to capitalize on new editions, codexes, etc. The narrower your collection, the harder it is to adjust to changes in the competitive landscape.

 

That being said... I would start a new workshop thread and post what you have for Blood Angels and we can try to workshop some ideas for how best to use them to make a competitive list.

[Guest]

Paying for new units is going to be my biggest issue. I don't always have or can depend on having the extra cash to just buy units. The argument pretty much boils down to "buy a new army" which is really troublesome to accept..

There are alternatives to buying models. Trades is a very excellent method. Some of the guys trade painting commissions for models, which works well if you have the time to spare (and acceptable painting skills).

 

You could also just ask for free models. Lots of us have rather large collections that we probably can't field all at once. Either borrowing, or actually just giving, it doesn't hurt to ask if there something specific you need/want for your army. 

 

And of course, you can always use proxy/counts as to test models before you buy them. Doesn't even need to be a model, can be slices of paper to match the base size. 

[pretre]

He has VERY acceptable painting skills. :)

[Lord Hanaur]

So just want to chime in. I don't hate losing. Losing is natural. But I don't enjoy getting completely annihilated because I don't learn anything from it other than "Don't play". Even a heavy loss means I can analyze whether or not it was my strategy, my dice or my units that failed me here. Being full on rolled over signals to me that either I failed all three at the same time or that the other army is impervious to anything short of a tailored list against their exact army. So I don't learn to improve short of "Buy a new army, newb". Which is where I am at currently.

 

I did say I came into this knowing BA wasn't top tier. That is an admission that it was going to be hard but not impossible which is what I was prepared. What I wasn't prepared for was "It would be impossible given normal ITC lists" which is what I feel at this time.

 

Was it fun? Not for me because I feel like there was nothing I could have done short of having the same army as the other players. That's just my take on it. Knowing what I know now, I will avoid the tournament scene. My last tournament was back in 4/5th edition with my PDF codex where I got middle of the pack and actually accomplish things. Now it just doesn't seem as possible unless I get real clever somehow (which is to say, not going to happen).

 

Sorry if I pushed the convo to a territory that no one wanted. Wasn't my intention. Just wanted to point out that I really wasn't as prepared as I thought I was.

Well...  I mean...  It sounds like you hated it.  This isn't just a "wah geez, how disappointing" kind of a post.  To be fair.  =)

 

I lost my first eight games.  I lost 13 of my first 15.  I mean...this is what happens, I think?  I think it's just a normal adjustment period that requires one thing to be successful:  Commitment to the process.

 

Getting rolled teaches you something even when its hard to swallow.  I essentially tabled someone in round one of the Guardian Cup Light this weekend whose ability i respect a great deal.  I am sure he knows where he went sideways and I am equally sure he won't have the same plan for me next time.  I lost in the third round to a Pod army I had never seen before and I got a lot out of it.  It's no fun losing, but it's not like the end of the world or anything and now i already have ideas on some very small tweaks that would free me from the problems i fell prey to in that match (two things i would specifically do in the future that will elevate my chances).  You sometimes have to see the army, see the geometry of it on the board, to appreciate what it is.

 

Not even the people with 400+ scores in the ITC are invulnerable to losses.  It's like the NFL:  It's hard to win.  You gotta' play a really strong game and even then, you could lose.  Just gotta commit to the process.

[pretre]

I spent years getting rolled when I started.

[Guest]

He has VERY acceptable painting skills. :)

There you go, Spagunk, your first customer . Figure out the models you need, and this guy will trade those models for some painting by you.

[pretre]

Lol no. But thanks. I, or my wife, do all my painting.

[WestRider]

I spent years getting rolled when I started.

Ditto. I think I only won 8 Games in my first year, playing roughly weekly. And it wasn't until maybe another 4 years or so after that that I was doing reasonably well in even local events. And quite a lot longer (and a lot of study and practice) before I got to be as comfortable with competitive play as I am now.

[Guest]

Spagunk:

 

Just start a thread in the rogue trading section where you offer your painting skills for models. Then post pictures of model's you've painted in the past and references, like this one, which show support for your skills.

He has VERY acceptable painting skills. :)