WestRider Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 The Formation doesn't have an option for Whirlwinds, tho. My first impulse is to go for another Predator, because I think they're awesome, but the Attack Bike is probably the best option. Whirlwinds are very efficient points wise Compared to what? Thunder Fire Cannon? Wyverns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Compared to what? Thunder Fire Cannon? Wyverns? I don't think BA have access to either of those. I agree, those are probably better barrage options. Though in terms of points, it is true that whirlwinds are very likely to make their cost in points back, plus merely having one on the table can greatly influence the opponent's deployment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spagunk Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 No wyverns or thunderfire cannons. The decurion doesn't provide for a whirl wind so I'd have to drop in a CAD to add one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 The Formation doesn't have an option for Whirlwinds, tho. My first impulse is to go for another Predator, because I think they're awesome, but the Attack Bike is probably the best option. Compared to what? Thunder Fire Cannon? Wyverns? Its not a matter of comparison. The whirlwind is in and of itself a very efficient killer for its points. Its impact on a game outstrips its points much more often than it does not. ANY weapon can be marginalized for a reason, but when you pay that little for something like that, it's hard to call it a "waste" in any list. It may be a bad fit, or points might not be there for it and so on. Lots of reasons or "better units" might be there to take. But as it stands, it's a good unit becuase it costs little and does a lot for its cost. I wrote an article in 2013 about how to make Blood Angels work and of course its dated now. But in that article, I even included two whirlwinds in the list I developed. http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-do-i-make-blood-angels-work-again.html (fair warning its an old article) I havent had much cause to look at Blood Angels in a long time since I mostly just kill them. I basically never play Marine armies now and the closest I get is Grey Knights these days. I have always liked them though for their cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 No wyverns or thunderfire cannons. The decurion doesn't provide for a whirl wind so I'd have to drop in a CAD to add one. Darn. Well, at least you checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spagunk Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Yeah, I came into this knowing that I'd gimp myself by going BA only. However I genuinely feel that BA, though not top tier, aren't push overs and intend to give it a try. Still trying to see what I want to do with 165 points. The lazy route is to just add a MM attack bike and drop an extra armor upgrade on the land raider or something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Blood Angels do fine. They even placed well at the BAO and with the right Allies, you should be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Caveat: Lord Hanaur says that about literally every army and every build in the game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Codex: Trash Fires does fine. They even placed well at the BAO and with the right Allies, you should be okay. Sorry, couldn't help it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Yeah, I came into this knowing that I'd gimp myself by going BA only. However I genuinely feel that BA, though not top tier, aren't push overs and intend to give it a try. Still trying to see what I want to do with 165 points. The lazy route is to just add a MM attack bike and drop an extra armor upgrade on the land raider or something. Nah, I don't find BA particularly lacking, though I do think that most of their formation options don't play to strengths of the codex itself. In example, librarian dreadnought is unique to the BA, yet no BA formation (maybe angel's blade?) has any librarian dreadnought options. And if you do go the route of libby dreadnought, one of the supplements has an artefact option which gives a modified extra armor upgrade to dreadnoughts. It's notable because the libby dread can take it, despite libby dreads not normally having extra armor access. In general, the BA CAD is much stronger than most of their formation options, just due to how restrictive their formations are. In particular, Cassor the Damned (special character DC dreadnought from starter set) is a troops slot DC dread, which becomes objective secured in a CAD. He's pretty awesome and the Draft FAQ finally addressed his missing Strength score. I do find the "Fury of Baal" to be a really cool artefact that I wish my DA had, as it's probably the only pistol option in the game for a generic terminator IC - plus it's a plasma weapon, and for DA, that's kinda our thing. Not sure if it's worth 25pts to BA, but I'd field one in my DA for sure. Honestly, if I didn't get so into my DA, I'd be playing BA. They have a strong standard codex with only a few major flaws: Lacking invulnerable save access and lacking initiative order AT options, plus formations that don't play to the strengths of the codex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Caveat: Lord Hanaur says that about literally every army and every build in the game. I actually DON'T say that about every army at the BAO. I say it about the ones that factually did fine at the BAO. Because, as I have so frequently said, it is a lot more about what you do with it than the list itself. The list has to be good, and I would never suggest otherwise (despite what some people say) but I just don't buy into the doom and gloom that cynics enjoy living in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I actually DON'T say that about every army at the BAO. I say it about the ones that factually did fine at the BAO. Because, as I have so frequently said, it is a lot more about what you do with it than the list itself. The list has to be good, and I would never suggest otherwise (despite what some people say) but I just don't buy into the doom and gloom that cynics enjoy living in. I don't usually disagree when you say it, but you do say it a lot. I do agree with your mentality, often, but I don't find it cynical to comment that you do say this sort of thing a lot. Caveat: Lord Hanaur says that about literally every army and every build in the game. He's just teasing you, LH. Note how he didn't disagree with your point, he just pointed out that your attitude towards BA is a common attitude for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spagunk Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 There is a non-specific dread formation in angel's blade that allows them to forgo movement in the movement phase and either shoot as if they were in the shooting face or pile in and fight as if it were the fight sub-phase. But it applies to any libby dread, normal dread or furioso. So a bit situational and requires 3 dread units. The good part is that if one dies you don't forfeit your formation bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I don't usually disagree when you say it, but you do say it a lot. I do agree with your mentality, often, but I don't find it cynical to comment that you do say this sort of thing a lot. He's just teasing you, LH. Note how he didn't disagree with your point, he just pointed out that your attitude towards BA is a common attitude for you. It is absolutely cynicism to take the opposite view. If I had that attitude, I would never win a game. Anywho back to the Blood Angels speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 It is absolutely cynicism to take the opposite view. If I had that attitude, I would never win a game. Anywho back to the Blood Angels speak. Wut. Accepting that some Units are bad is cynical? Also, just as a counterpoint, I totally have that attitude and went 4-1 at my last Tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Oooo, I get to do a meme. I never do these because I so rarely know a reference to the phase that needs saying. It is absolutely cynicism to take the opposite view. If I had that attitude, I would never win a game. Anywho back to the Blood Angels speak. cyn·i·cism noun an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest; skepticism. Cynicism does not equal disagreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 There is a non-specific dread formation in angel's blade that allows them to forgo movement in the movement phase and either shoot as if they were in the shooting face or pile in and fight as if it were the fight sub-phase. But it applies to any libby dread, normal dread or furioso. So a bit situational and requires 3 dread units. The good part is that if one dies you don't forfeit your formation bonus. Libby dread doesn't really have any shooting, since psychic shooting is now psychic phase. Maybe a storm bolter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Oooo, I get to do a meme. I never do these because I so rarely know a reference to the phase that needs saying. Cynicism does not equal disagreement. I'm confident i did not mean it as disagreement. So you're right. As am I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spagunk Posted November 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Libby dread doesn't really have any shooting, since psychic shooting is now psychic phase. Maybe a storm bolter? No, but if you are in an assault, then it turns into two assaults. If I remember correctly, People talk about dakka dreads and stuff. The potential for 4 frag cannon shots and two heavy flamers sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 No, but if you are in an assault, then it turns into two assaults. If I remember correctly, People talk about dakka dreads and stuff. The potential for 4 frag cannon shots and two heavy flamers sounds interesting. Indeed! That's the Dread I hope gets charged. Wall of Fire and Death! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 No, but if you are in an assault, then it turns into two assaults. If I remember correctly, People talk about dakka dreads and stuff. The potential for 4 frag cannon shots and two heavy flamers sounds interesting. Noteable is that the wall of death rules apply per template weapon, not per shot with a template weapon. Could definitely be an oversight, but as written, overwatch still does d3 hits with an assault 12 flamer (example, not a real thing, yet...). This is clearly written in the template weapon rules, though again, could be an oversight due to most template weapons only having a single shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Noteable is that the wall of death rules apply per template weapon, not per shot with a template weapon. Could definitely be an oversight, but as written, overwatch still does d3 hits with an assault 12 flamer (example, not a real thing, yet...). This is clearly written in the template weapon rules, though again, could be an oversight due to most template weapons only having a single shot. IIRC, GW confirmed that in the Draft FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 IIRC, GW confirmed that in the Draft FAQ. Confirmed it as an oversight? Or as that they are d3 per weapon? And either way, has the ITC allowed the Draft FAQ yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Confirmed that it's d3 per Weapon, not d3 per Shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Unfortunately, the draft FAQ says it both ways- in one location, it says that it is d3 autohits per shot the weapon fires, in another it says that it is d3 autohits per weapon that fires. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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