First Attempt at Sternhammer Strike Force

[Yarbicus]

I added another Rhino today. I am strongly consider a couple of Drop Pods. I am just so old school...

[Guest]

The other issue with SternGuard in this particular case is that Yarbicus doesn't want to use Drop Pods. Most of their go-to builds are about them coming out of Pods, so it gets a bit trickier with them in a Rhino.

Good call.

 

I have experiemented with Rhino based unit concepts, though not sternguard. You have two fire points on the rhino, so I've run squads where they have a MM and two Plasma weapons (plasma gun and either a pistol or combi-plasma on the sergeant). Basically, the MM and plasma gun are fired if the rhino is stationary and the Plasma gun and either combi-plas or plas pistol are fired if the tank moves. Makes for a decent rhino based unit. Can always get out as normal, but sometimes you want to deny the opponent a toughness target. 

[WestRider]

I added another Rhino today. I am strongly consider a couple of Drop Pods. I am just so old school...

Pods are pretty awesome, I have to say. Especially for SternGuard and the Ironclad/Contemptor Dreads that you can add freely into the SternHammer as Aux Choices. Odd numbers are best to minimize how much you have stuck in Reserves. Three is my usual minimum, since if you have just one, you don't have any choice of what's coming in Turn 1, while multiples give you some flexibility to handle different opposing setups on Turn 1.

[VonVilkee]

What west said above for stern.

 

If really looking at vans I've been very impressed with cheap and mixed. Add a chaplain from a demi company for a obsec guy and hatred! I sprinkled just basic power weapons as at 5 pts each they felt like a steal! Two axes and a maul, combined with the chappy it is two mauls. They them hunt whatever outliers there are our jumps into a combat I think I can swing that is tying up a shooty unit or if I need something moved around. Pure suicide squad as I feel Marines are either just fine as is for an assault or they are gonna be so outclassed I don't wanna spend the points! Remember they can jump 12" and reroll charge distance as van.

 

A trick with the first company is declare their preferred enemy as warlord. If the unit contains at least one model of that you get the rerolls gives them something to do!

[Yarbicus]

Is the Storm Wing the only way to get a Stormraven in my list?

[Yarbicus]

New list:

 

 

*Battle Demi Company

-Captain w/Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Artificer Armor (travels with Vanguard)

-3 x 5-man Tac Squads w/HB

-Assault Squad w/Jump and Sgt w/Power Fist

-Centurian Devastators w/Grav and ML

--ride in Stormraven

 

*First Company Task Force

-5 Sternguard w/2 Combi Melta

--Rhino

-Terminators

-Vanguard w/2 Power Sword, 2 Light Claw

--Rhino

 

*Devastator Squad w/4 ML

*Devastator Squad w/4 LC

*Storm Wing

 

I have 2 more Rhinos; who gets the ride?

[VonVilkee]

Van guard in a rhino will not be good... Can't assault after disembarking (even if stationary) and if the rhino is trashed they have to wait a turn too. Really need jump packs to keep them mobile but not super spendy...

[VonVilkee]

Tac squads should get rides to make them obsec. Those jump assault marines could be switched to foot and given flamers in a rhino, then take the packs give them to the vanguard and captain.

[VonVilkee]

I'd also consider moving the devestators to the demi. Those centurions are gonna be targets any way so forcing your opponent to make choices is good. Having one obsec that hangs back is a good thing.

 

Your centurions can be axillary as well... So much versatility in the sternhammer makes it tough to decide sometimes!

[Yarbicus]

Trying to decide if the Storm Wing is worth the points.  I feel like I need more bodies.

[VonVilkee]

I've been happy enough with centurions on foot to deny space. I don't expect them to kill like most people do... The threat they exert is good as is but your opponent will be able to avoid them, or kill them...

[Yarbicus]

OK, all new list!  WAY more bodies this ways.

 

Sternhammer

 

*Battle Demi Company

-Captain w/Combi Grav and Relic Blade

-Command Squad w/2 Combi Melta

--Rhino

-5 man Tac Squad w/HB

--Rhino

-5 man Tac Squad w/HB

-5 man Tac Squad w/HB

-3 Bikes w/2 Meltaguns

-5 man Dev Squad w/4 Lascannons

 

*Battle Demi Company

-Chaplain w/Jump Pack

-5 man Tac Squad w/HB

--Rhino

-5 man Tac Squad w/HB

--Rhino

-5 man Tac Squad w/HB

-4 man Assault Squad w/Jump Packs

--Sgt w/Power Fist

-5 man Dev Squad w/4 Missile Launchers, Flakk Missiles

 

*10^th Company

-5 Scouts w/Sniper

-5 Scouts w/Sniper

-5 Scouts w/Bolt Pistol and HW

 

*3 Centurians w/ML and Grav

[Guest]

hmmm...Last one was super elite and this one is without elites. The ideal list is probably in between the two. 

 

As for suggestions on the current one:

 

Imperial Fist Scouts make sense with bolters, instead of melee or snipers. A heavy bolter and a melta bomb sergeant would also be solid additions. Since the 10th company dataslate for SM scouts lacks objective secured, I'd use the infiltrate and scout to put the scout marines in front and use them to deny change lanes, grant cover for other marines, and if possible, to assault the lighter vehicles. 

 

I see what you are doing with heavy bolters in the tactical squads and devastator squads, but I think you will run into issues like that. As is, if the opponent has AV12+ vehicles on the table, they are going to focus fire your devastators and you are going to find yourself without enough AT on the table. I suggest taking heavy bolter devastator squads, and put the heavy weapons in the tactical squads. That way, if they fire at your AT, they have lots of targets, instead of just a few. And since Imperial fists get bonuses to hit with heavy bolters, I'd consider making the devastator squads designed to be mobile, so they can snap while moving, so maybe kit out your devastator sergeant with a plasma pistol and power maul (Maul suggested to take advantage of tank hunters, but any could work). 

 

Strongly suggest getting a model or unit that hold their own against a deathstar unit in the assault phase. Doesn't have to be a huge investment, but they should have at least a 4++, an ap3 melee weapon, and a melta bomb (or similar AT option). My DA typically run a five-man Terminator unit with storm shields for this sort of thing. An imperial knight is also a common option. The key thing here is just being able to lock the opponent's deathstar for a turn or so, while your shooty forces are able to keep shooting. Your chappy or captain could function like this, but they really need an AT option (and the chappy needs at least an ap3 weapon), especially with how your forces presently have all their AT in only a few units, and most of your forces can't get out of assault very well and your lack of melee deathstar will cause the opponent's melee deathstar to pile into units you'd rather not have locked in assault.

[VonVilkee]

Looking at the list there is some lack of ap in there... Don't know if it is models or what but I'd drop some of the heavy bolters and take specials instead with a matching combi sarge. Especially for the rhino squads. To find the points dropping a heavy weapon from each of the devs. Right now all your bodies matter and pay allot of points with tank hunter and the demi company once per game reroll ones with them you should be fine with just 3 big guns and that first causality matters not.

 

Getting really close there how much you thinking of playing with them and where?

[Yarbicus]

Lots of great info to chew on here!

 

Pax-

 

Your point about Deathstars is well taken.  I just don't think that way.  I will consider your suggestion on the Assault Termies.  I imagine that you put them in a Drop Pod?  Any other solutions?

 

VonVilkee-

 

Good suggestions there.  Now that Games and Gizmos has moved down the street from me, I hope to get in games far more regularly.  I might also make an overnight trip to BHam in the near future just to get some WarHamster lovin'.

[Guest]

Lots of great info to chew on here!

 

Pax-

 

Your point about Deathstars is well taken.  I just don't think that way.  I will consider your suggestion on the Assault Termies.  I imagine that you put them in a Drop Pod?  Any other solutions?.

Assault termies can deep strike normally. No need to buy a transport. The dangerous terrain rules got really nerfed, so terminators usually survive when they land in difficult terrain. Plus if all the terminators are Initiative 1 in assault, the terrain doesn't slow them in assault and actually allows them to be assaulted with less penalty. If you are really concerned, you could get teleport homers for the sergeants in your scout or tactical squads. Depending on how the opponent deploys, you might consider just foot slogging your terminators - works if they come to you, and especially if they don't have a lot of armor denying shooting attacks.

 

As for other solutions, recall that both the command squad and vanguard vets can all take storm shields. It's the invulnerable save that you need to cope with deathstars, normally, so that route also works. Doesn't really cost less, but you can mingle your transport options more, plus you already have a command squad in your army.  Does make your deathstar more grav resistant to not have the 2+ armor...Sometimes wish I could take carapace command squads. Legion of the Damned is another option, though I find them lacking in offensive weapon options. 

 

Back when I was running SM in the last codex, I did experiement with Assault Centurions. I ran 3 with a TDA chaplain in a land raider (redeemer, I think). Not an OP deathstar, but those assault centurions can actually kill an imperial knight in one turn, in initiative order - they'll die in the process, but that was a given due to their lack of invulerable save. 165pts, and both the chappy and land raider usually survived. I actually have wanted to try this again, but I'm wary of spending $70 per squad... I did do experiements with them just foot slogging and they do function, but they won't likely reach assault with the unit you want assaulted, so I'd get a drop pod or land raider if you intend to field them (and the chappy helps, but I wouldn't bring one if I didn't already have one for other reasons).

 

And while assault centurions are certainly regarded as the weaker option for their kit, the rate at which they can butcher a super heavy is downright terrifying for their cost. Stock 165pt unit has 4 base attacks (sarge has 2, other two models have 1 each). They have paired melee weapons, so that's 7 attacks, and if they charge, that's 10 attacks. Those resolve at WS4, initiative 4, S9, ap2, and armor bane. It's a fixed strength weapon, so furious charge adds nothing, but their strength also can't be reduced. Still, against a knight, on average, 5 will hit on the charge, and 3 will hit without the charge. Each hit will almost always pen (9+2d6...), and of those 1/6 will give an explodes result. So, the knight will very likely be reduced to 1 HP on the charge. If you add a chappy (or other zealot), then the hits on the charge becomes 7, and they just decimate imperial knights (because with 7 hits, that's 6+d3 hp lost with very average rolling). Again, though, the attacks back from the knight will most certainly kill the centurions.

 

So, within your list above, I'd look into tweaking the existing command squad to have storm shields and some power weapons (not every model needs a power weapon). I'd also look into replacing your assault squad with an assault centurion squad (flamers, and either frag assault launchers or hurricane bolters. I'd go with melta if you are getting a pod). Just look into it, you don't have to. See if it can be done without sacrificing too much. 

 

Additionally, if you are running imperial fists, Captain Lysander, himself alone, qualifies as a deathstar. 4 wounds, eternal warrior and a 2+/3++, he's about as survivable as a 5-man TH/SS assault terminator squad. I would definitely look into using him, for any imperial fists army.

[Yarbicus]

Legion of the Damned, you say?  Tell me more!  I actually have a stack of the old metals lying around.

[IW Raptors]

Legion of the damned are pretty good, a 5 man squad, with multi-melta, meltagun and either a combi melta or grav on the sarge. You can always fit them in via their little well known codex, which is basically just the copy pasted LOTD entry from the SM codex (so don't buy it!). 

[Guest]

Legion of the Damned, you say?  Tell me more!  I actually have a stack of the old metals lying around.

I haven't really experiemented with them, as they seem to not have enough options to really be offensively a deathstar. Defensively, they certainly have the ability to hold another death star in place for a turn or so, which is what I was suggesting for your list. The main considerations with LoD is that they can't overwatch (slow and purposeful), that they are required to start the game in deep strike reserve, and that ICs can't join them. Of minor consideration is that they do not share chapter tactics with the rest of the army, which could matter, but probably won't.

 

I'd go with a power sword sergeant, just because I think initiative order attacking is important for marines. Given their slow and purposeful nature combined with ignores cover, I think you could really make a plasma cannon shine in this unit. I'd also get a melta or plasma gun, and I'd at least consider a plasma pisol for the sergeant. Unit won't really be much cheaper than terminators, but they have reliable deep strike and they are pretty solid at ranged offense, just due to moving and firing while ignoring cover. 

[Yarbicus]

Just bought some Assault Termies so I will go with them.

[Yarbicus]

It seems like Vanguard are not good in a Rhino.  Does that mean they NEED jump packs to be useful?

[WestRider]

Maybe a Drop Pod, but I really don't think I'd run them any way but with Jump Packs.

[Guest]

It seems like Vanguard are not good in a Rhino.

There's nothing wrong with putting Vanguard in a rhino, unless you intend to assault out of the rhino, then it sucks as that doesn't work. A shooty vanguard unit would work in a rhino (like SS+pistol, or dual pistol vanguard).

 

For assault vanguard, Jump packs are one good option. An assault vehicle could work too (like land raider, or storm raven, or one of the FW transports). Foot slogging could work, but that greatly depends on the opponent's proximity to your army.

 

Now you could just chance it, and plan to be in the open for a turn without assaulting. Then any transport works, as does deep striking with jump packs.

 

Personally, I've had good results in the past when having "floating" transports, which aren't dedicated at all, instead shifting roles to adjust to the opponent. Land Raiders can be pretty useful in this role, just because they can transport anything (space permitting), but could also be deployed as a bunker for an objective, or even just as a line of sight blocker. The Lascannon one is nice here, because it can sit back and still contribute, even if less so than points invested suggest.

[VonVilkee]

I would not bother with vanguard unless jump packing them. 3 points each for the pack makes it the cheapest faster move option and allows them to rove the field a bit more, possibly switching attack vector which pods can't do. I just keep coming back to cheap power weapons, two attacks each, and jump pack availability. I really like jump packs and assault marines don't cut it at all, vanguard bearly cut it...

[Guest]

vanguard bearly cut it...

I'm picturing the Bear vanguard giving those Space Wolves a run for their money...I think you meant "Barely" but I enjoyed the visual created by the typo.

 

Anyway, yeah, I almost never run vanguard, but they aren't that different from other veteran units. Don't really use jump packs much, so if I wanted a melee veteran squad, I'd take a command squad, which is basically the same thing, but with apothecary access and a max squad size of 5. To me, vanguard are only appealing if you want 6 or more of them.

 

I did, at one point, tinker with a full 10-man Storm Shield squad (vanguard). For 290pts, you can get 10 vanguard with storm shields. Then you need a character or lots of weapon upgrades to make the unit viable. A very "meh" unit. Less independent than terminators, but you can put them in any transport, they can sweep and they have grenades, so there are some versatility advantages. Did it for one or two games, but wasn't impressed enough to finish the project.

 

I have been tinkering with a DA company veteran squad, which unlike the vanguard veterans, can take SS in addition to 2 other weapons (vanguard have to swap a weapon for a shield), plus the company veterans can mix ranged and melee roles. Cost wise, the DA vets are cheaper (1pt cheaper per model), but they can't take jump packs, don't have the vanguard special rule, and DA have very different other options.