6th Elvensword Ambassadorial GT FAQ input

[Lord Hanaur]

I have always liked to think I am open to input and every year, I have put up a post to get ideas on things that need an FAQ.

 

This year we are using the ITC FAQ and its Format (separate issues) in all respects that are not already directly contradicted in the tournament rules found here:  http://40kambassadors.com/rules.php

 

I would like to solicit questions that are not covered by the FAQ here.  Please check the ITC FAQ and the GW FAQ before posting just so we aren't covering ground they already have.

 

I have been hit up on a couple of questions that are good ones already.  Please state your question and any source material I need to look up for it, so that it will make my job easier.  Please treat this as the WRONG place to get into discussion about the particular questions people post.  It is just a store house of things I should think about before the tournament.  Your help is always appreciated as it has been in previous years.  The tournaments success, I feel, has somewhat been fed by our willingness to be receptive.

 

Thanks in advance and if this can be pinned it would be appreciated.  If not, I understand.

[Talonwinter]

You may want to have the GSC players ask the question on there army. There are some question about deployment and things counting as moving vs being placed in the deployment phase.

[AbusePuppy]

Yeah, that's a big one: does deploying via the Cult Ambush rule count as moving, or not, assuming you aren't coming in from reserves? Been a lot of discussion on that one.

[Lord Hanaur]

You may want to have the GSC players ask the question on there army. There are some question about deployment and things counting as moving vs being placed in the deployment phase.

Please explain the issue.  I do not have the codex and have not played against it yet (TalonWinter...) so please give me the details I need to understand the issue.  Thanks.

[AbusePuppy]

The Cult Ambush rules have a random d6 table that allow you to set up your models in unusual ways. The 3+ results on the table are all "set the models up X inches away from the enemy units" (though there also results from entering by table edges.) Normally you can only use the Cult Ambush rules by placing the units in reserve, or by returning to reserve via one of their other rules. However, units in their decurion formation can do so as part of Infiltrating, where they roll on the table for each unit that Infiltrates instead of deploying in the normal fashion.

 

The question is whether this special deployment counts as moving- it is nominally "arriving from reserves" and units that arrive from reserves normally count as moving, but Cult Ambush is somewhat different than normal. It is particularly relevant because GSC units have access to several heavy weapons and can potentially fire them when arriving from Cult Ambush.

[Lord Hanaur]

So you want to know if they have to snap fire them the round they move out of hiding?  Essentially?

[AbusePuppy]

Yes, that's basically what the question boils down to. It's fairly clear how it works when actually coming in from reserves, but when using the Infiltrate version at the beginning of the game there is less consensus.

[Lord Hanaur]

Infiltration has never really been considered movement. So on the SURFACE the answer seems obvious but I feel as if there is wording that must be muddying this?

[Lord Hanaur]

Duplicate

[Guest]

@AP: Can we get a full quote of the Cult Ambush rules? I did have an opponent use this rule in kill team, and it did seem very potentially game changing, though I don't recally the exact wording. 

[AbusePuppy]

 

This is the most relevant page of things. Specifically, the line "Unless otherwise noted, Ambushing units move onto the table as described for other reserves and cannot move any further the turn they deploy or arrive on the battlefield."

 

The contention is two-part; those in favor of it counting as movement note that it explicitly uses the "movement" language and that all other forms of arriving from reserve likewise have the unit count as moving, and also that the unit is disallowed from moving "any further" that turn, which similarly implies that it has in fact moved already.

 

On the other hand, the opposing argument notes that arriving from reserves in and of itself does not necessarily count as moving- as otherwise the specification in the Deep Strike rules that the units count as moving would be redundant, and that the Cult Ambush rules never explicitly state such.

[AbusePuppy]

A few of other questions:

 

-How will superheavy/gargantuan units be handled? ITC has them give the enemy +1 to their Seize roll, as well as allowing the use of the Escalation warlord traits and being counted as "killing" a unit for every 3HP (or wounds) dealt to them. Are these changes in effect for the Ambassadorial in full, in part, or not at all?

 

-Does the Haemotrope Reactor affect only the plasma weapons listed in the BRB, any weapon with the plasma type listed in its entry, or all weapons described as plasma as described in their own text?

 

-When taking a multi-formation detachment (such as the Necron Decurion or Dark Angels Lion's Blade), do selections that are not formations count towards the detachment total? Apparently this was the case last year, but no mention of it is made in the current rules (which have several notable differences for army construction from the previous version.)

[Skkipper]

For the last question for example

If I take a slaughtercult it has 1-8 auxiliary groups you can take. How many warmachines can I take?

So is slaughter cult with 8 hellbrutes legal?

[Lord Hanaur]

 

This is the most relevant page of things. Specifically, the line "Unless otherwise noted, Ambushing units move onto the table as described for other reserves and cannot move any further the turn they deploy or arrive on the battlefield."

 

The contention is two-part; those in favor of it counting as movement note that it explicitly uses the "movement" language and that all other forms of arriving from reserve likewise have the unit count as moving, and also that the unit is disallowed from moving "any further" that turn, which similarly implies that it has in fact moved already.

 

On the other hand, the opposing argument notes that arriving from reserves in and of itself does not necessarily count as moving- as otherwise the specification in the Deep Strike rules that the units count as moving would be redundant, and that the Cult Ambush rules never explicitly state such.

I understand the issue now that I have read it.

 

It seems clear to me that they are addressing two separate issues in that text:  Those units that would normally be in reserve and those that would normally be infiltrating.  The text involving movement is in relation to those units who would normally come on the board by moving.  Infiltrating obviously regards those units that would be placed via infiltration.  However because they are in one sentence, you have to read it pretty carefully.

 

The way I read this is:  You move onto the board normally from reserve unless your Ambush result tells you specifically otherwise...in which case you give up your normal movement onto the board in exchange for the Ambush placement you mention (which you said happens on a 3+).  Now I have not seen that other chart, but based on what you have sent me here, this seems pretty clear.

 

Also as regards infiltrating units:  It appears that you will infiltrate them normally, unless the chart specifies a change to that deployment.  if it specifies otherwise then you replace your infiltration with the result.

 

The Ambush precludes any movement in the actual turn in which they arrive, regardless of which way they are deployed.  So an infiltrating unit could not then move on their turn, having chanced the Ambush rule in place of infiltrating "normally".

 

Since the rule clearly stops the units from moving in the movement phase, and since infiltration isn't a move per se, I cannot find a reason why they would be considered "having moved in the previous movement phase" so to speak but I will scope it out at home when I have my book to look at infiltrate again.

[Guest]

Thanks, AP, for the quote. Very helpful.

 

Looks like models that are infiltrating or successfully arrive from reserve can opt to roll on the table. If they do, they follow the instructions there, can then take a normal move just like arrivng from reserves (unless the table says otherwise), but then cannot do any further movement in the turn (runs or charges). Unclear if this would prevent them from falling back (if they failed morale on their own turn). 

 

As written, models are not infiltrating, they are doing the cult ambush instead. They would count as moving if they chose to arrive via Cult Ambush instead of infiltrating. You could even make a solid arguement that the model is not arriving from reserve, and that interceptor weapons do not trigger, though this second point is a bit grey. 

[Guest]

@LH

For the last question for example
If I take a slaughtercult it has 1-8 auxiliary groups you can take. How many warmachines can I take?
So is slaughter cult with 8 hellbrutes legal?

So, LH, the issue is that some of the Decurion-like detachments are made of actual formations as well as non-formations. 

 

The DA Lion's Blade can take 10th company support option which is not a formation for the DA, but is just specific models with no additional rules. Can my DA take multiple 10th Company Support selections? Same question with Khorne Daemonkin Blood Host detachment's Warmachine entry.

[Gorgosaurusrex]

Is there an answer coming for Pax's question above?

[Lord Hanaur]

Please treat this as the WRONG place to get into discussion about the particular questions people post.  It is just a store house of things I should think about before the tournament. 

 

 

Thanks in advance and if this can be pinned it would be appreciated.  If not, I understand.

i am trying to avoid making this the discussion area as you can see.  Just collecting questions.  I'll be issuing answers all at once, in the not too distant future.  Some things, like Abusepuppy's question are being wrestled with.  Thank you for being patient.  I am surprised there aren't more but I will take that as a blessing.

[Skkipper]

When? My list is waiting for the ruling

[Guest]

Kinda waiting on existing questions to be answered before asking other questions.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Are you bringing your Dark Angels to Elvensword, Pax?  It seems like it'd be a bit further than you'd desire to travel for an event.  Although, I'm still assuming you're only on bike still.

[Guest]

Are you bringing your Dark Angels to Elvensword, Pax?  It seems like it'd be a bit further than you'd desire to travel for an event.  Although, I'm still assuming you're only on bike still.

Not going at all, but he wanted help getting a good Q & A together. That's the exclusive reason I've been contributing. Not really even sure where the event  is, though I'd guess somewhere in washington...

 

Regarding questions, the most basic and important questions should be asked and answered first, just because people need those core things figured out when preparing for the event. That question regarding the Lion's blade and Blood Host seemed like a question that needs answering immediately, as the question regards list creation. And the lion's blade was used as an example to illustrate that the blood host question wasn't isolated - which is important when getting an answer, since the answer may pertain to more than just the detachment in the question. 

[Guest]

Anyway, if you want the more petty questions, I suppose I could ask them too. 

 

1: Are models able to swap all of their attacks to use a grenade as a melee weapon AND still use bonus attacks like those granted from Hammer of Wrath?

 

2: Regarding the Wipe Condition of Sudden Death Victory, do models that can't be destroyed (like purchased aegis lines) qualify as "owned models"? Furthermore, do unmanned fortifications like the Armored Shipping Crates or Imperial Bunkers qualify as surviving models?

 

Both of these seem pretty obvious to most players I talk to, but aren't as covered in the rules as well as you might think. Not looking to debate these, but I think having an offical stance would be useful. 

[AbusePuppy]

Not going at all, but he wanted help getting a good Q & A together. That's the exclusive reason I've been contributing. Not really even sure where the event  is, though I'd guess somewhere in washington...

 

If you are interested in going up, we have a vehicle with some space coming from Corvallis and I'm sure we could arrange to grab you along the way.

 

 

2: Regarding the Wipe Condition of Sudden Death Victory, do models that can't be destroyed (like purchased aegis lines) qualify as "owned models"? Furthermore, do unmanned fortifications like the Armored Shipping Crates or Imperial Bunkers qualify as surviving models?

 

This is one that's actually relevant outside of that context as well, since according to LH fortifications will count as a "destroyed battlefield role" for purposes of the Break Their Force Cohesion mission. So if you have an Aegis Line with a Quad Gun, does killing the Quad Gun (the only destroyable part of the fortification) count as eliminating the entire fortification? What about if you only purchased the Aegis Line- would the enemy receive the points automatically?

[Guest]

If you are interested in going up, we have a vehicle with some space coming from Corvallis and I'm sure we could arrange to grab you along the way.

It does actually look really fun, but I'm not ready this year. I should have the tyranids done enough for next year (and they'll be amazing, at least in paint). And my DA, I keep getting distracted from finishing them (and I keep acquiring more models...).