Murphy'sLawyer

Well the nice thing about playing Ogres at 1500 points is that you only need 5 models. :P

Basic rules like the To-Hit and To-Wound charts and miscast chart. The basic rules that we all kind of know but reach for the book becuase we are not 100% about. Along witg it listing the page numbers to look up the rule in the actual book. It is way more complete than the GW one you can download. More for the casual player than the Mathhammer'ers.

Some of you have seen the Reference Sheet I have been using and I had some ask if I could get them one. Now I can't find the website I got it off of any more so I can either give some of you the PDF or I can get some done up and laminated for the league on Sunday. If I do them myself I have no issue but would ask if players can pay for them to be done. Like a $1.50-$2.00. Anyone besides Drak want one?

If I didn't already own Army Builder from before, no more annual renewals, then I would most likely use Battlescribe. But since I own AB I am going to use it and its apps. Only downside I saw to my app last night was having to enter my password every 15 mins or so. So no real downsides so far. Also after reading reveiws, both here and on iTunes, I think I will stick to my hard copies and not get the e-version since I already own the books. But when 9th ed comes out I will be getting the eBook for its search and highlight functions.

Spirit hosts and an unit of Hexwraiths I expect from the Vamps. It was the unit of ten hexwraiths, I thought they were a unit of just undead knights, that made me realize my army wasn't going to be able to handle your list. But if you bring the same list you will only have one Standard Bearer. :)

After playing against your list tonight I will play against you but I will need to revamp my list to include more magic. At 1500 it is very hard to deal with all that ethereal. And time to bring back the Dark Magic.

1500 points to go with the beginning point value of the escalation league. For those that might have also missed it. Hope to see you there.

Alright, today is T&T day. Looking forward to this. We should have no problem getting everyone that wants to play in, so let's do this.

I am still interested in it too, so let's talk Sunday.

Archers in the frontage of the warmahines to redirect, seems like their best job. I have now a great idea of how I should setup my lines now, as much as I can without seeing the board an army I could be facing. Thanks for the discussion guys.

Well a detachment of 5 archers requires a parent unit to be there within 3" so I see 5 being good for redirecting/blocking charges but not for chaff/harassers. Also if you place your other cav units on the opposite flank of your Warmachines and Rear Guard your opponent will have no fun with their chaff choices. At lower points you could push it together more for a refused-flank that can close the door in two to three turns.

Is it the core box set with the Minis still in it too? Or the expansion 'Streets of Something'. (realized I forgot what the expansion was called.)

Ah, well you have to know how it would be used and you may change our mind. First Empire has some of the best Warmachines in the game, Doom Diver being the best IMO, but Empire Warmachines don't come as cheap as other Warmachines do. So it is protecting an investment. Also the Rear Guard would also be reserves that you can wait till turn three to see what his Chaff is doing before sending the Knights to where they are needed to clean up or support the battle. Having them on the flank would put your opponent in a bad position becuase if he charges your army head on the knights will be able to come in on their flanks setting up a possible domino effect. Also Knight are core and come cheap compaired to warmachines for their effectiveness and are very mobile. Mind you this is not something you do for one cannon but for a Cannon or two with Engineer and Hellblaster you can see the points adding up fast.

True true. This whole rear guard concept is new for me becuase with O&G and DE if I lose my warmachines, oh well, I paid 2 nickles for them. Eric did give me a good lesson on some good rear guard ideas tonight so now I see what MexicanNinja was saying. I think a couple uints of 5 Knights might be my reserve/rear guard.

I am actually finding these thoughts on Rear Guard very interesting. Looks like everyone has their own ideas and no set rule for how it should look. What I heard on another forum from a well thought out article that was posted in Druchii and the Empire forums was mainly this. Melee units get the job done. Buffing models make the melee units better. Warmachines takes out Buffing models. Fast Cav takes out Warmachines and Shooting takes out Fast Cav. Very quickly summed up there but you get the general idea.

Isn't the Steam Tank best used in the front lines grinding away the horde units? Baby sitting seems like a waste of points, even if your warmachines survive the whole game Agree with pistoleiers' comment. They are about as useful at baby sitting as the Handgunners.

I have to say being a Dark Elf and O&G player (Fastest Fast Cavs in the game.) caughting Fast Cav with a charge is not likely going to happen. My Dark Riders would win CR with better armor and attacks so I wouldn't use Pistoliers an answer to Fast Cav. Best way to get fast cav is to shoot them or deter them from wanting to engage. In the game of controling charges Fast Cav is the Big Dog King. And you want the deterent in place before the Fast Cav moves, so James I would most likely pick one side that is your weak flank and stick to it. In other words the Knights look like a good answer, but I do not expect them to catching any Fast Cav in a charge.

Thanks for the advice HeroZero.

Almost forgot, if the unit does break or is destroyed becuase of the angle of the unit your opponent will run off the board unless he restrains, meaning no free charge into your Warmachine.

Well if we go by normal use of units, yes Archers are better but only becuase they are Skirmishers. But this is not the normal use of a unit. It is a static two ranks of 5 men that do not move. Archers only get stubborn if they are in forests. So unless there is a forest right next to your Warmachines they will break faster than the Handgunners who they will have to kill 5 men before thet loss steadfast. (That is assuming you kill at least 1 rider to remove their last rank.) Now the handgunners bs is the same, cuases +1 ST and has AP shots. Handgun's biggest weakness is the Move or Fire which doesn't matter to a static unit. It doesnt move, it is a deterent not an offensive unit. The idea is of you run heavy on one flank the other will be exposed to Fast Cav, which we all experience, so if you place this unit in a way that they can not avoid line of fire they will most likely not try to assualt your Warmachines that way. Archers are good as an agile unit for moving on a unit's flank and firing. Doing it from the woods makes it a bad choice for most units to deal with without throwing a lot of resources at it. This responsibility of babysitting is a static job which Archers would be bad at. They will get no steadfast in the open ground. So if my theory is correct my opponent can not just take a 100 point unit and wipe out all my Warmachines in a domino effect. They would be wiped out before then, or made ineffective requiring my opponent to spend more resources to get the job done, exposing them to my Warmachines which is what I want.

So I am not playing my Empire yet but after reading a couple of articles an idea hit me. Handgunners are less than attractive but are good at handing light chaff. It would cost 90 points but you could set them up in the back field protecting the Warmachines my opponent will be gunning for. Positioned right they can cover the whole backfield with the right angle. Obviously this will not be perfect but will stop fast cav from having a free for all on my Warmachines. I will get at least 2 shoots before they engage the Handgunners and that will most likely lower their effectiveness by about half if not more. (Assuming it is a standard 5 man fast cav unit with a 4+ AS and no Ward.) Worth trying or a waste of points?

Well you mentioned I should run a T&T game beween Brawl and the League, so yeah I thought you ment game night. Is that cool or does that conflict with something? Wish someone else had a box set so we could have multible games going.

I thought High Elf was suppose to be a beautiful languge? Oh well. I will see those elves then on the field of battle. Expect no mercy, but a good time. Also it looks like I won't be there till close to 5. Hope that works for everyone.

Hey guys, now that the Brawl has passed, or is going on as I type this, and the Spring Leauge is about to start I thought it would be a good time to have a T&T game. Still working out the time I can be there with my kid's mom but would like to have a 1500 point game, the starting point of the League. I want to hear some shout outs for who's interested. Give me a 'Huzzah!'

They're at the Brawl. No game night.:( Next week it is on, and I am thinking of getting a T&T game going.