Talonwinter

Is it on the website? I know your busy

How many are coming so far?

Fluger challenged me. lol.

Those random rules would have been better as objectives. lol

At least Tyranids can can have friends if not BB. BB makes more since.. But oh well.

Getting in to the top 8 would be nice. I want to beat my record from the last time which was 3-2 with my Tyranids. I have only been getting better with this army since I started playing them in January. Compared to the Tyranids I normally play I am a new player with these guys. I would love to get a few more games in before the Cup. I need to get practice on the non dawn of war missions. Hammer and anvil is problematic depending on the opponents army.

I l I liked you article on frontline gaming. I think we have different understanding of what the terms counter-meta and anti-meta is. Lets just say vour perceptions differ on this.. If you are at Guardian Cup will look forward to seeing you, hopfully in the final rounds.

Well will still enjoy the tournament. My list is not built around the power. Sad about the ITC fulmination power Nerf. Making both of the abilities in that power not work is very sad. It makes that discipline next to worthless for assault armies. Storm of Silence in Spokane gave it a chance and it didn’t conquer all or ruin the tournament at all. I really doubt if anyone will even play that power now. Which is sad.

You like to use broad statements with saying "everyone this or that". Let’s see here. Not everyone tries to make a counter meta list. Most people don't. From what I see most people make list from units they like to play with. As for net lists. If people are using them then they are not making counter-meta list themselves either. The meta is all about mass shooting, Big single unit Deathstars with the conclave or mass cheap MSU. I don't know... Seems to me my list doesn't fit the meta in anyway. As for a net list, I am the only one running a list like this that I have ever seen. In fact everyone says the list is not good and Thunderdome with conclave is better. Calling my list a net list..? Come on really.. My list is not very tactical or complex. It wants to get to you and assault. It has good to great movement in all of the attack units. The cheapest of those units are 250 points. My support units are 10 points each and die to sneezing at them. I playing a army that gets no free points, no powers on a 2+, and is using a single codex. Wow sounds like I am playing Tyranids. 15 units with ten of those being 10 model units. Giving me 35 models on the table. So low model count. So mid to hi kill points. I will lose big game hunter most likely, as my units are expensive. Like any elite army if my saves go bad I can lose real fast.. If I wanted to play boring net list…. This is really not the way to go. Not everyone fits your statements.

TV I have to take them for the detachment. I put one in a drop pod that I can make the enemy have to go take care of in their deployment Zone. 4 line breaker. Or a table corner. Also by hiding the other three of my deployment Zone I get to make my opponent have to spread out to kill all of them. I hide one of them by the vsg. I hide the other two in places that have difficult line of sight. That way my opponent has 2 be put out of position to be able to take them out from range. With those models I have 4 units scoring in my backfield 4 Maelstrom missions. With the speed and overall attack power of my army people tend to focus on the killing units first and by the time they realize the game is almost over they do not have the means to get to all my small scoring units that are scattered around the field. I expect more experienced players to have a concept of what this list can do. But I have found that even veteran players are caught off guard at times at the speed that the units can be capable of. That said I have won several games with nothing but the void Shield generator and two servitors left on the table. This list is I guess a counter meta list, I think. If not I'm not sure what is.

You make some valid points.. Failing wounds will always be a issue with this type of army. This is a elite army with few models and wounds. The VSG is for first turn protection from grave drop and heavy grave armies. Intel the change the ruling it is very good at doing that. It also works really well at keeping the servitors alive later in game. Plus it is scoring in my back field since most of my units are ringing forward. Its not a wasted addition. As for first turn charges having 33% chance to get up 36 inch charge range is pretty good. It makes planning what my army is going to do harder for my opponent than for me. Yes I can go with the Death Pack and have a crazy range on it and powerful character. But I lose the ability and the number of attack the two units can put out. By doing ThunderDome you have extremely powerful unit that loses if some one gets lucky with stomps. Also going second can lose you the games as well to shooting army's not having to make any choices as what to shoot. The one big unit that has not powered up yet. My list makes you have to drop the shield and then you must pick which unit to go after. The Wulfen unit that will allow possible crazy movement or the thunder wolf units. I still get the shield protection turn 2 most of the time as people have not dropped it first round. As for the Conclave. This is a Space wolf list not a Battle Brother list. I personally feel the Conclave is a broken formation that needs to be nerfed or banned in the ITC. I will not play with it and it doesn't fit my list. I know people play the super friends list but I don't play then. Space wolves can't use Invisibility normally so I am use to not using it. Endurance is nice but I like the new power Veil of Time better. Getting a 3++ reroll is better then FNP. As for getting them off vs most armies it is not a big issue. People either go big with powers of have next to none. Either way it is feast or famine with our they get off. ITC wants to stop turn one charging as it is with their nerf to the electrostatic power from fulmination. In their view it is too over powered because of the Conclave making it too easy to cast. For me this is a little hypocritical in that shooting armies can destroy whole armies with shooting before you can even get in to assault. SO it seam it would be fair if a. assault army could return the favorer. Who is going first has always been a big part of this game. Setting up turn two charges will have to work.. It is funny that people seam to feel a 12 inch movement, weapon skill 5, toughness 5, strength 5, 3++ save is a week choice. Very few people run thunder wolves themselves. They do the character instead that way they have units that can split off as needed. For the cost of two kitted out guys you can get 6 thunder wolves kitted out as well with a lot more attacks coming out of the unit. The 2+ armor saves are good that's for sure. But you are a lot more reliant on the Conclave to keep you alive as you have even less models on the table. Well that's my View of it. I have played they other way, but it is not my style to play with multi codex's. I want to play space wolves not space friends.

True but i figue not for this tournament.

Great wolf detachment lvl 2 Libby on bike Servitor Servitor 3 drop pods Lvl 1 Libby on bike Servitor Servitor 5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw 5x thunderwolves with 5 Storm shields, 2 Power Fist, 1 Wolf Claw VSG with 3 shields. Murderpack Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield Wulfen with 5 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield Wulfen with 2 Thunder hammer and Storm Shield, 2 with great axe and auto gun, 1 Normal guy The army has 30% chance of getting a 24 inch move rate with the wolves. 2 units of wulfen are dropping turn one where I want them. Letting me box my opponent where I want him most times. Turn one I am Assaulting with the thunderwolves( depends on deployment type.) or setting up a turn charge with 4 nasty units. If I don’t make a turn one assault. My opponents faces a hard choice in what to kill first as all 4 options are brutal. So what do you think?

Signed and paid.

The Conclave is not fun, not balanced and is just outright bad for the game as well. But it is allowed. What's the difference really. You are not Guaranteed a first turn assault with this power. Far from it. The anti-psyker assassin stops blessing from being cast on a unit. You can't swap with a unit that is within 12 inches of it. Also if they do get to charge they have no buffs and stuff dies a lot easier then if it walked across the table. Heck please come across the table so I can take away the buffs makes killing that unit a lot simpler really. Even with perfect placement drop pods scatter out of range for a charge. Also there are formation out their that have so much free stuff that they can wall them selves in pretty darn good and never hurt there offensive power. I play Tyranids mainly and getting shot at for 2 to 3 turns before making it in to combat is not really fun either. It is the reason you don't see ground based Tyranids. Shooting is insane with riptide wing and Bike and warp spider spam. Grav spam issue as well. The amount of shots make make even moving 12 a turn not a good option for assault units. Sorry, I have little to no sympathy for shooting armies complaining they can't handle combat with this new power. Most of those shooting armies it comes down to who goes first between them.

Only on hammer and anvil can they be completely out of range. Dawn of War no so much. it extremely hard to put a 1850 in small corner area. the other deployment type if you hide in the back you just booked yourself in to a corner literally. for the Intel they use the new GW FAQ VSG. it protect the units very well. Even then I want to go first for sure. With that power you can deploy away from it. The power is not a auto win people make seam to be. As with every list there are hard counters to it. But if people use the suggested Interim ruling you will not see this discipline anyways. Which is sad.

I can get 50% of the time a 26 inch to 42 charge range now with out the power with the murder/death pack combo. Turn one charges by thunder wolves are a thing people will have to live with to tell the truth. A for the Wolfstar it is charging turn two anyways most of the time. Having thunderwolves hitting you turn one is not the deal breaker. it is all of the Psychic powers it has that makes it so hated. Simple to counter really. Most Wolfstars don't have a lot of shooting You can take a Assassin to shut down the wolf star real easy. With a complete wolfstar you don't have a lot of room for units in drop pods that are really survivable. Mini stars you do but they are also a lot easier to kill. Also the wolf star can' assault the whole army a opponent has normally. Most armies now cluster in one area. Or are super mobile like Eldar jet bikes that can almost cross the whole board as well. How many games have the stolen with their OS last turn because you can't catch them. Seams fair that their is a way to catch them now. After turn one I all's fair in love and war. Honestly how is getting shot by 60 to 120 Str 6 shots two turns any more fun or survivable.

Can you get them easly? like in 4 or 5 diffrent units. Or are they a HQ upgrade. Can tanks take them? Sounds like you could waste Libbies if you can. LOL I really hate the conclave.

How many spots are left?

How common are the Psishock guns in the sisters army.?? and What are thier range? How good will this make them at killing of psykers?? Random Model gets Perils sound fun for the conclave.

The ITC 7th edition FAQ it is in blue waiting the new vote. Hopefully on the vote the have a midway point instead of break it or leave it. Think about if you opponent charges a unit turn one and you have this power in a assault unit. And he doesn't kill it he deserves to be assulted. Just saying. Nerf the swap and charge.. Leave the swapping in to combat alone. Seams to a fair middle ground.

How is making a assault focused power in to a non-assault focused power not arbitrariness? This power is not a auto win if you have it. Wouldn't the easy fix be to say No turn one assaults then?? From turn 2 the power should work as written.. That is the simplest fix. The spirit of the power allows you to do 2 things. 1st swap and assault or 2nd swap a unit that is in combat with another. The power can't do either of these now. Honestly how is that keeping the spirit of it. As for turn 1 charges the happen a lot and are greeting more reliable. Even with this power Hammer and anvil you can deploy so you can’t get a turn one charge pretty easily. Dawn of war deployment you can’t get away from some army lists now without this power. Gate allows you to use it in combat to get out of it. This power does not, as they changed it to say you can't pick a unit in combat. So you can't swap in or out of combat. Also I have never seen someone Gate a Assault deathstar ever. It seems to me the Conclave is the main issue. Maybe we should look at it instead.

Well lets see here some fix's. You can use a combination of these if want. They would let the power still work like it was intended. If there was still a issue then more could be done. There has been very little time since these powers cam out that they can't have to much feed back on them yet. You can't combo it with the terrain shifting power. You can have one or the other. One make it warp charge 3 or 4. Give it -4 inches to charge and makes you WS/BS 1 if you swap. The -4 goes to -6 if you go into cover. It can't be negated in anyway. Since the Conclave is what makes it the most powerful make it so this power doesn't get the bonus from the Conclave. Turn one assault are still a thing with the Wulfen Murder pack and deathpack combos you can get a surprising distance. Also turn one shooting can be just as damaging if not more so. Personally getting hit with 80 shots for turn turns is no fun either. Their changes doesn't adjust how it works but changes completely how it work to the point it is not the same power. It went from helping assault armies, which need help. To being a power for a shooting army. Also the ability to get a unit out of combat that you didn't want assaulted. Gone. How was that over powered in anyway. How did the fix the power. They did not. They Changed its concept. Most of the powers in this discipline are combat focused. 3++, extra strength and attacks, even another movement power. The new format doesn't work with the rest of the powers at all. Honestly would you take this power with the changes? I have a very limited budget for this game and most of the models to make these list. I agree the power needs to be toned down some. But not to this extent.

First off I like the ITC and think the are good for the hobby.I am asking myself the question why the nerf?? Why the fear and over reaction? Has is power been a big issue at a tournament yet?? has it destroyed the meta some where??? I haven't heard of a single tournament where the top3 list have even used it. Has anyone?? Here is the interim ruling: Fulmination Discipline: •Electrodisplacement: We recommend altering this psychic power to treat the casting Psyker's unit as Deep Striking when moved and therefore being unable to assault in the turn it uses Electrodisplacement. Further, the casting Psyker may not target a unit locked in combat to swap places with. This power has be nerfd with a D-Weapon. The power is now unrecognizable to what it was. Nothing of the benefits . It doesn't even have the spirt of the power. Nothing that made you go wow that's amazing instead you read it and go wow that terrible. For me its right up their with Biomancy #6 Hemorrhage. The one power which no one wants. The other powers they suggested some modifications to. Kept the spirt of the powers. Like these. Geokinesis Discipline: •Phase Form: we recommend altering this psychic power to be Warp Charge 2, and to allow the targeted unit to either ignore Line of Site or to Ignore Cover, but not both simultaneously. •Shifting Worldscape: we recommend banning this power for tournament play or altering it to only allow the controlling player to move a terrain piece in a straight line along the table. It may not move over intervening models and at no point may it move within 4" of another piece of terrain or enemy unit. It otherwise obeys all other rules of the power. ITC said use the powers test them out. How can we test them in a tournament setting when they have told everyone to nerf it?? They tested it. They even offered a 100 dollar challenge saying it was unbeatable broken. To there embarrassment they lost too the very first challenge twice to the same guy. They even said of that's a anomaly after the first one. After the second one the where like oh that is a anomaly as well. Guess what those happen a lot in this came. ITC pulls a lot of weight with TO as they help make things easier for them. This suggestion is being implemented already. Guess what?? No one takes Fulmination Discipline as the other powers are only ok to bad. There is no other power in the discipline that is a must have. My question "Why the destruction of the power and isn't their a better way to nerf it?? I can think of a easy half dozen ways to do so. Heck I can think of one easy fix that would let the power be played as written. Your guys thoughts?

Space wolves have two that are descent. One does have a Iron priest that comes with it. You can take up to 5 in a unit I think. With the 3== shield and IWND on the unit it is not too bad. I forget what the other one does just that the named HQ is in it.