indytims

Yeah... I am assuming they do that because of space limitations?

I agree completely. Totally impressed with what a couple of average everyday people can do! :)

Do you really think they're going to create a skirmish rules set that functions well with 500+ point models? I've played enough skirmish games to know that those games break down rather quickly - or become so bloated that they aren't really 'skirmish' anymore. But like I already asked - why would GW remove the 8th edition books and army books, if the new rules are completely compatible with 8th edition? Again - I am not saying they won't be, I just don't see the logical leap you're making. Of course GW doesn't care about the figs they've already sold you - that's money in the bank to them. They only care about what they -can- sell you. But they also know there are thousands of players out there with huge FB armies already - can they sell us a Mass Battles rules-set? Given that they already have a pre-established player base - yes, of course they can. But going to something completely different would mean even those players would likely have to buy something new, which is what they want to do. I'd just be surprised if they release 'Age of Sigmar', and it ends up being '8th Edition Skirmish Battles'. And I suppose if they go through any sort of pains to allow your current figs to be compatible - then just maybe they -do- care about the stuff you've already bought? As for the format proving it doesn't work - I would have to disagree with you there. The format has seemed to work for 20+ years for them. Some folks post 'numbers' that show sales for FB are way low the past few years. Others post the opposite. Who to believe? I guess I just figure that if the Mass Battles format has been proven to 'not work', I would have to wonder why it took them over twenty years to figure that out. "Hey, it's GW!" That could be reason enough I suppose! LOL. But I definitely could see an FB version that more closely resembled 40K. That would certainly make sense. Then again... if they are -too- similar, why would anyone bother playing both? Aesthetics?

War of the Ring had terrible potential for cheese that would make Kraft envious. But played with level-headed friends, it was a -blast- to play. I had more fun with it than the vast majority of time I've spent with WHFB, through any edition going back to 3rd. The main point was, though, that the skirmish game (LotR) was based with round bases (ala 40K), while the mass-battles game was played with rectangular 'rank and file' bases. GW had a system that used such a mechanic, and that definitely wasn't part of WotR's issues. Someone had claimed there was no way to do such a thing - when in fact, GW -has- done it already with one of their own game systems, and the mechanic worked well enough.

So that old saying, "Victory is forged from the sweat of heroes" will be quite -literal- this coming Saturday, it sounds like! LOL! I wish I could at least some by and watch for awhile. Work slays me sometimes, but I wish you all the best regardless! :) Play like a champion!

Man... we were having a PERFECTLY reasonable, calm discussion until you came along and dropped that bomb on us. Now. It's all RUINED. :)

For any of you LotR players still around, here is a very nice post I just saw today that I thought I would pass on. It was made by user Paradigm over on Dakka: OR user Dr Grant and his fellow hobbists have been working for the last few months on putting together a very nice SBG fanzine, issue two of which was released free today. They've got plenty of content that's easily worthy of the best days of White Dwarf/BGiME, including battle reports, tacticas and hobby articles, all put together very profrssionaly. While you can pay to get hard copies or early access the two issues so far are completely free for download, and well worth having a virtual leaf through! Here is issue 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx4gLDU0F2Qgd0ZObGFaNHRNS2c/view And 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx4gLDU0F2QgcE1hV2hFN3B4alk/view If you want to give any feedback, there's a discussion thread here: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=398604#p398604

A lot of what you say does make sense... but do you really think they are going to invalidate the thousands of square-basers already in existence? Are you actually thinking that they are essentially wiping the slate clean and starting from scratch... 'Re-base your old figs... or start over'? There were posts made tonight where GW has set this coming Saturday as the date that stores will be pulling the current rules, starter set, and army books from the shelves, as well as movement trays, templates, and a few other things. If the new rules were 'compatible' with 8th ed - why would they yank the army books off the shelves? Or for that matter, the rulebooks, templates, etc? I think assuming that because the skirmish game might be on round bases is enough to assume there won't be a 'mass battles' version of the game, is a little premature. This is precisely what they did with LotR and WotR - round based figs for the skirmish game were put on rectangular bases for mass-battle combat. So GW has actually demonstrated the ability for there to be the 'transition' that you allude to. Doesn't mean that's what they are going to do, but as a player of both of those games, I think it worked incredibly well, and could work in WH. And what of all the 'big figs' (including all those End Times figs) that arguably wouldn't work very well in a 'skirmish setting'? Do you believe that the new version is simply going to drop them all from existence? Or will players simply have to keep their 8th edition stuff handy if they ever want to use them again? What you're describing is about as close to a 'reset' of the game that we've ever seen, going all the way back to 1st ed. I am not saying it's impossible, and it may very well be what we end up seeing. But it would definitely be one of the most shocking things I've ever seen GW do.

There are some 'undesirables' there, sure, as there are on most large-scale forums... but there are also a ton of good, level-headed folks there, too. I don't let the few rotten apples ruin it for me. :)

I think there will be a mass-battles 'version' no matter what, because there are and will be people who prefer that level of play - regardless of the price-point. That being said, I am a huge fan of skirmish-level games. LotR is my favorite GW game, to be honest, and the size of the armies involved is one of the main reasons, but I would like to pull out my skaven for a 1500-1750 pt throw down once in awhile. There have been folks on Dakka talking about participation and tournament numbers for WHFB recently, and if those numbers are accurate, the current playerbase for mass-battles hasn't disappeared. But what is supposedly happening is sales are declining. If you buy a unit of clanrats... you can use that unit forever. But for folks who have nothing to start with, a 'mass battles' game is very, very daunting - price-wise, and time-wise. However, if they could lure in folks in a smaller fashion with the mass battles game as the 'logical next step', I think potential new players would feel less pressure to plop down $600 for the basics, and instead 'start small', find out they love the models/game/community, and work their way up, while getting use out of their initial investments quicker. That's just my outlook, though. I could be completely off base. There might not even be a mass battles/skirmish tag-team like I am hoping there will be.

One week preorder... is that the new norm? Seems rather... anticlimactic.... Now to decide where to get it from...

I admit... I am still curious about the basing though...

I am pretty excited - especially for the 500-1500 point range stuff! But it all sounds interesting to me.

I am curious how strict/picky people are around here in regards to things like weapons on Wraithlord. If the model has a scatter-laser glued on to it, but I'd prefer to have it be a bright-lance - do people insist that it -has- to be a scatter-laser? I have seen people do the 'magnet' thing with swappable weapons, but my models were all glued together long before I learned how to do that. Or what if I have the metal Wraithguard, but I'd like to use them with the two ghostblades instead? Early wraithguard came with the wraithcanons molded as part of the figure. Just curious!

Curious about that quote... were GK armies really repping 50% in the finals? With 25% of the field playing them? Are Eldar performing that well so far with the new book? Just curious.

I always thought those backpacks carried things like food, toothbrush, sewing kits, magnifying glass, shaving gear, and of course an extra pair of space marine undies. I wouldn't doubt that SOME Space Marine mothers might slip extra goodies in there too, like an occasional 'Booty Sweat' energy drink or maybe even a few 'Busta Nut' energy bars. If you showed up to the table with Marines NOT equipped with those backpacks, I would therefore insist on a penalty to ALL reserve rolls you make since your marines are obviously NOT prepared! :)

Holy smokes!@!@@#! Anyone know when GW will release this thing?!?!?? I want at least two for my Skaven army!

Yeah, I've usually avoided the 'larger' scale LotR games.... there just comes a point where you can add too many figs to a skirmish game and slow it down to a crawl. lol. But yeah, the 'warband' type- feel to those rules are super cool. Mordheim meets LotR? Yes please! :)

Holy Ring-Wraith, that is so cool!!!! I'd never seen that before! Yes, it would be awesome to be able to find a group to do that with!

To play a campaign in general? Or are you looking at a specific one?

You don't participate in escalation leagues? Or maybe they don't do that sort of thing around here? It's one of the few events I actually participated in AT the GW stores in Chicago. Especially for folks building/painting new armies, it can definitely help add some incentive. :)

Back when I was still playing regularly (early 6th), most people played 1750-2000 point games in the stores I frequented in the Chicago area, including the Bunker. Personally, I love 1000-1500 myself. But obviously I haven't lived in this area long enough to know what army-sizes were like a few years ago compared to now. :)

In my opinion, allowing allies is simply a way for some armies to find a 'crutch' for their weaknesses - and for GW to encourage you to buy more figs. Allowing armies to fill-in their weaknesses does, in my mind, give some sense of homogenization where the armies can start to feel the same, except the figs look different. While I am all-for 'allies' in a friendly thematic game once in awhile, I've always been of the opinion that allies should not be allowed in tournaments, and the 'allies table' in the current edition of the game should be torn from the book and burned in effigy. Some of the alliances don't even make any sense at all, despite GW's attempts to make them all sound 'legit'. Reading about these various alliances in tournament play just adds another reason why I have avoided such events in the past. I've only recently returned to the game, but I definitely remember this topic coming up in groups I've played with. In some cases, players were wanting to try combos and thought it was a cool idea... until someone dropped a combo on them that made them want to pull their hair out. As such, I don't use allies myself and never will. I might lose all the time because of that, and that's totally cool with me. -Tim

Go, tell the Spartan, stranger passing by That here, obedient to their laws, we lie. -Simonides of Ceos

I wish I could 'like' your post a thousand times, good sir!