Wood Elf Project

[Raindog]

On Monday, I flocked the template for the Wood Elves free wood. Today, was the first time I had a chance to shake off the extra flocking and look at the results. The template was fine, but a bit thin in places, so I added watered down glue to spots and reflocked the piece. Now, I need to wait.

 

I played two games over the weekend. In the first, I played TJP's re-tooled Chaos Army. It is MoT and MoS. It kicked my butt. I had no answers for his flying caster of Doom. It is really next to unkillable and is plenty blasty. I made four huge mistakes in the game. Tim made none. 

 

Lessons,

 

1) Chaos Warriors are better than Elf Lords in combat. I long for ASF like the other elves, but that may be a long time in coming.

 

2) MoS is underrated as a mark.

 

3) I need to dance more. I thought I had good combats, but I did not.

 

4) Giants are bad news against dragons.

 

Next, I played Rudra34's Beasts. The army has more drops than mine and can counters most of my tricks. I have one answer for his Doombull, charge it in the butt with my Dragon. Unfortunately, I broke him, but did not run him down. I eeked out a win, but made one big mistake that nearly cost me the game. 

 

Lessons Learned,

 

1) The boosted Amber Spear rocks.

2) Tuskgor chariots are anemic. 

3) Dance more. 

4) Razorgors are better than eagles.

[TJP]

Giants are bad against dragons, until I roll 8 wounds with a Thump With Club and you ward EVERY DANG ONE OF THEM with that cheesy 3+ ward till you fail item :)

[Raindog]

Giants are bad against dragons, until I roll 8 wounds with a Thump With Club and you ward EVERY DANG ONE OF THEM with that cheesy 3+ ward till you fail item :)

 

 

As opposed to the 3+ Ward Save item where you re-roll ones………...

[Raindog]

Spent a bit of time layering browns on a Dryad.. Woot!

[TJP]

As opposed to the 3+ Ward Save item where you re-roll ones………...

 

I didn't say that wasn't cheesy, too :)

[Raindog]

The Free Wood template photos are up.

[TJP]

Looking good. Are the magnets sticking better now?

[Raindog]

Looking good. Are the magnets sticking better now?

 

 

It is not perfect, but they work.

[McNathanson]

As opposed to the 3+ Ward Save item where you re-roll ones………...

 

Seriously?  There's an effectively 2+ Ward save item??  Oh, Games Workshop...

[TJP]

Seriously?  There's an effectively 2+ Ward save item??  Oh, Games Workshop...

 

Well, not exactly. A Warriors of Chaos character with the Talisman of Preservation (45 pts) and the Mark of Tzeentch (5 to 10 pts) and the Third Eye of Tzeentch mutation (10 pts) gets a 4+ ward from the talisman, which goes to a 3+ with the Mark, and the Eye lets you reroll 1's. Effectively a 2.5+ ward for 60-65 points - not cheap, but effective. You can't do that on a Demon Prince (limited to a 5+ ward no matter what as Daemon of Tzeentch gives you the same ability as the Eye instead of the +1 ward). It's pretty badass and makes him hard to kill, but doesn't protect a monsterous or chariot mount or help him from fluffing his attacks and getting run down.

[McNathanson]

Seriously?  There's an effectively 2+ Ward save item??  Oh, Games Workshop...

 

(Yes I know not exactly 2+… it's .22% failure, which is like what, a 2.5+ ward save or so… but still such a bad idea!)

[McNathanson]

Well, not exactly. A Warriors of Chaos character with the Talisman of Preservation (45 pts) and the Mark of Tzeentch (5 to 10 pts) and the Third Eye of Tzeentch mutation (10 pts) gets a 4+ ward from the talisman, which goes to a 3+ with the Mark, and the Eye lets you reroll 1's. Effectively a 2.5+ ward for 60-65 points - not cheap, but effective. You can't do that on a Demon Prince (limited to a 5+ ward no matter what as Daemon of Tzeentch gives you the same ability as the Eye instead of the +1 ward). It's pretty badass and makes him hard to kill, but doesn't protect a monsterous or chariot mount or help him from fluffing his attacks and getting run down.

Hah, you beat me to it :) 

 

Yes I figure any character build is not the End of the World, but combos like that are always a bad idea game-design wise.  Similar to the old Dark Elf combo of 1+ AS and <7-Strength> Ward or whatever it was, it's just too easy to abuse things that are that categorical.  If you make a thing like a Ward save, that "stops all wounds" it has to stay fairly unreliable so that the multiplicative effect of the math doesn't get out of hand.

 

Anyway, I have no idea about the overall state of the meta game in WFB so I have no clue again what the net "dumbness" of that combo is, and I'll take your word for it that it's not terrible.  But I just cringe when GW makes design mistakes like that.  It's just bound to be frustrating!

[McNathanson]

Oh and Raindog what is "boosted Amber Spear"?  And why do you think MoS is underrated?

[TJP]

There is a common item that makes models in base contact reroll successful saves. Also, you can get a LOT of shots or attacks from units pretty easily in 8th, and eventually, wounds will get through. A bunch of big spells don't allow ward saves (though they are for the most part characteristic tests, which a Warriors character is pretty unlikely to fail, but is usually instant death if they do).

 

The Amber Spear is a Beasts spell that hits like a bolt thrower (no armor saves, penetrates ranks, d3 wounds). The boosted version, at a higher casting cost than the base, is higher strength (and longer distance? I forget). It's good against RD's dragon, Treeman, and Treekin. I was usuing Bolt of Change, a Tzeentch spell, to similar effect, though it doesn't have a higher strength boosted version (d6 + 4 str, which is pretty nice, but random).

 

Mark of Slaanesh (automatically pass any fear, terror, or panic checks) was MONEY in 7th ed, where Fear was crippling and Terror bombing ruined battle lines. In 8th, it's much less of a big deal, so players have really swung towards Nurgle (-1 to hit in close combat) and Khorne (Frenzy, which is essentially the same effect as Slaanesh since they are immune to psych - at least until they lose combat and lose frenzy). Still, we don't have The Will of Chaos anymore (no rerolling panic), so a whiffed panic check can still send 400+ points of Nurgley doom off the board, a failed fear test can make a Nurgle vs. whatever a silly ineffective slapfight, and Frenzied units have to overrun, have to test for an uncontrolled charge, and can't choose to flee from a charge, not to mention if they lose combat, they lose all of this, and both are more expensive.

 

Plus, y'know, fluff.

[McNathanson]

Awesome reply, thanks TJP!

MoS seems cool!  Maybe not as powerful outright as Nurgle or Khorne, but I love abilities that eliminate those rare but game-losing events like ill-timed psych failures, yet do so without costing me control of my army.  To me, Frenzy and ItP are frustrating in the way they "dumb down" an army, reducing my options and forcing me to play a certain way.  Yet even more annoying is failing a 1-in-12 psych test at the wrong moment.  I would love the precision and reliability that MoS would give.  More of a matter of taste than "winning at warhammer" thing :)

Thanks again,
Nathan

[Raindog]

Hello Nathan,

 

1) Yes, 3+ save is ridiculous and is bad game design especially combined with a 1+ re-rollable save.

 

2) The Doombull has a similar cheese fest. He can be designed with a 1+ re-rollable save and then does a Str 4 hit f every save he makes..........

 

3) The Amber Spear is a spell from the Lore of Beasts. The basic spell is a S6 magic missile the acts like a bolt thrower. It has the range of 24 inches and is cast on a 9+. The boosted version is cast on a 15+. When boosted, the spell acts more like a cannon with S10 hits and D6 Multiple Wounds. It kills monsters quite well..

 

4) The Mark of Slaanesh is nice. It prevents units from being spooked and panicking away when they are needed. It also prevents units from being affected by fear.

[Raindog]

The browns done on another Dryad. Now, for the greens and the spite.

[Raindog]

On the modeling front, one dryad model is ready to be flocked. The next one is ready for the green layers.

 

On the gaming front, tonight I played Jeremy of Anceint Wonders fame.

 

He is throwing a food tournament on March 15. I am signing up. I hope you do, too.

 

I played his ogres. He had no L4 caster, but two L2s, a BSB, and a tyrant. It is a fun list with a single iron blaster, 3 mournfang, a potent unit of Maneaters, and a wall of bulls.

 

He had first turn and most up en masse in a giant wall, leaving me with little room to dance around. I decided to feed him Dryad units and shift to my right and attack his left flank. I took out ths left flank and iron blaster, and then, hid the end of the game.

 

I lost four units of Dryads.

 

He lost two units of 7 bulls, a BSB, a Butcher, the Iron Blaster, mournfang, and lead blechers.

 

Lesson Learned.

 

The Treekin can take a Mournfang charge.

 

My shooting and magic did little in the game.

 

My Eagle lived for the fist time ever..

[Ring_of_Gyges]

Frenzy is a lot better in 8th edition than it was in 7th for a couple reasons.  First is that units are generally easier to maneuver and harder to avoid, so leading frenzied troops on a merry chase is harder.  Second, it isn't an auto-charge anymore, a leadership test will let you opt not to charge.  A +1 leadership banner is revoltingly cheap and either that or a BSB is generally enough to keep them in line.  It adds an extra random factor which makes them harder to control, but I think the +1A is worth it.

[generalripphook]

Which unit had frenzy?

[Raindog]

Frenzy is a lot better in 8th edition than it was in 7th for a couple reasons.  First is that units are generally easier to maneuver and harder to avoid, so leading frenzied troops on a merry chase is harder.  Second, it isn't an auto-charge anymore, a leadership test will let you opt not to charge.  A +1 leadership banner is revoltingly cheap and either that or a BSB is generally enough to keep them in line.  It adds an extra random factor which makes them harder to control, but I think the +1A is worth it.

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[generalripphook]

Frenzy is a lot better in 8th edition than it was in 7th for a couple reasons.  First is that units are generally easier to maneuver and harder to avoid, so leading frenzied troops on a merry chase is harder.  Second, it isn't an auto-charge anymore, a leadership test will let you opt not to charge.  A +1 leadership banner is revoltingly cheap and either that or a BSB is generally enough to keep them in line.  It adds an extra random factor which makes them harder to control, but I think the +1A is worth it.

Was that supposed to be posted in "hello fantasy its been a while"?

[Raindog]

Hello Fantasy, it has been a week.

 

I have been listening to a great deal of podcasts. They help pass the week and keep me up on trends, meta, and hobby tips.

 

Three dryads are painted and waiting flocking. The fourth is drying after the wash layer for the browns. The greens are next. The owl is last. For the last owl, I remember looking at online images to find the paint scheme.

 

Finally, I had a nice rematch against TJP.

 

The list had more Trolls, dropped the War Shrine and rerollable 1+ AS on the Mage.

 

I danced about. I did a lot of dancing. The patience paid off. I sacrificed my eagle and Wild Riders to for good match ups. The match ups paid off.

 

Lessons,

 

1. I did not should have dropped Hidden Ways for Tree Singing. Two tree singings would have be nice to battle in and around trees.

2. The Ward Save MoT Lord Caster is potent with or without the re-roll.

3. Treekin are a better match than the Dragon or Treeman vs. the Giant.

[Raindog]

The layering of the greens is done. Now, I need is wash the greens.

[TJP]

Curse you, dancey-pants elves! And also my uncanny ability to roll 12 for flee distance TWICE with my big unit. And then not rally...

 

The Sorcerer Lord didn't let you take him alive, though. After Gatewaying the crap outta the treeman, he said goodbye and was drawn into the Realm of Chaos on a miscast.