HeroZero Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Do you use them? What load out? Quad Flakk Missiles seems like a ridiculous point sink. Quad Missiles seems okay... Quad Heavy Bolters seem good if you go IF. Quad Las? Expensive. Full 8-10 unit? Or 5 man units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'd only run Flakk with Imperial Fists. Tank Hunter starts making those S7 shots actually worthwhile there. Missiles without Flakk seem OK, only 15 Points more than Long Fangs, and a couple of the Chapter Tactics give them some nice potential buffs. Heavy Bolters, even with IF Chapter Tactics, seem kind of underwhelming to me. I think I'd rather save a few Points and get a ThunderFire Cannon instead. I've mostly been running mine with Lascannon. They're expensive enough that I do generally pick up at least a few ablative dudes, but they've been doing reasonably well for me for the cost. If I take an Inquisitor, I generally park him here. Plasma Cannon are maybe also worth considering, especially if you're running Tigurius for Divination support. Multi-Meltas seem like an option with potential for Ultramarines as well, being able to advance on Turn 1 to get some more aggressive coverage. Or Scouting up with Raven Guard. As a general thing, I'd say they're best for Imperial Fists, decent for Ultras, and mediocre for other Chapter Tactics unless you've got some very specific way they fit into the Army. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Been running 5-man lascannon teams with a combi-flamer sarge for 160pts each. Last game I ran two of such units. I'm debating swaping a lascannon in each for a Multi-Melta, so I can get them to 150pts and have a little extra punch for drop pods and other vehicles that dare to be so close. A good amount of the time, the devatators are shooting at no more than 24" anyway. Combi flamer has proven very useful. Allows a minor charge deturant and allows me to pile on extra hits for units that arrive via pods. Remember that in 6th, the sarge can move without imparing the heavy weapon members from shooting at full BS. Anyone else notice that the signum shot seems to miss more than the regular shots...? As for alternate builds, I did some minor testing with an "AA" build: 5 man, 3x HBs, 1x flakk ML. Idea is that most of the flyers are not AV12 on all sides, so the HBs have decent odds to hit said flyer (just hit). The Signum goes on the flakk. Unit is not overly impressive at any one task, but does preform well with classic SM above average at everything (9 HB shots and a ML means lots of targets that can be engaged). Unit is 125pts, because heavy bolters are really overpriced...That said, I don't field this one anymore. The one I really do want to test is the quad plasma cannons. 130pts. Very short life expectancy. Still, looks really fun. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I agree with west rider, but would add that if you're looking for heavy bolters for IF tactics, attack bikes are the better way to go. More mobility, more saturation, and doesn't take up a hotly contested slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Imperial Fists can make good use of them with Lascannons, which will murder just about any tank. Missiles are... okay, I guess, but I don't like paying 25pts for Flakk; a Quad Gun costs about the same as giving it to the whole squad and with BS5 Tank Hunter (the Gun benefits from it as well), you have a pretty good shot at taking down airplanes. If the Ultramarine doctrine didn't have the silly limitation on it I'd find theirs a lot more useful, but as it stands I don't think I'd bother. I would always buy at least two extra bodies, sometimes even more than that, if going for Devs. Cheap ablative wounds will keep your heavy weapons shooting longer, and that's exactly what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I would always buy at least two extra bodies, sometimes even more than that, if going for Devs. Cheap ablative wounds will keep your heavy weapons shooting longer, and that's exactly what you want. This one is sometimes viable. Depends how long you expect them to last after they start taking hits. Also depends if the points are not better spent elsewhere. Also don't have to field all 4 heavy weapons. Signum's free, so if you just need a simple las squad, you get a BS5 one for the cost of a BS4 troops one (scoring does matter, so not something you'd employ if you needed scoring). -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAPcom Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I've been running 2 squads of HB and a squad of Lascannons (all w/ imperial fist tactics), and have been having a lot of fun with it. Adding a 55 pt. Divination inquisitor in the mix make the lascannon squad pretty good for taking down flyers and (most) armor, and 24 HB shots will do quite a bit of damage to most things in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Unless you are taking plasma cannons or lascannons or multi-meltas, why not thunderfire cannons? Devs are really cool. I wish they were better, but frankly, all their options just cost too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Unless you are taking plasma cannons or lascannons or multi-meltas, why not thunderfire cannons? Devs are really cool. I wish they were better, but frankly, all their options just cost too much. For me, I'm running DA, not C:SM, so I have no TFC option. That would be the easy answer. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Been trying 10 men, 2 ML with Flakk, 2 lascannons, always combat squaded with the sarge + lascannons in an Icarus-armed bunker (firing the Icarus at BS 5). So far, I'm liking it. Ultramarine tactics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I feel like the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon costs are about right these days- Missiles are definitely overpriced, though (10pts is just about perfect this edition; 15 would've been more appropriate last edition), Heavy Bolters just aren't a very attractive weapon, and Multimeltas don't mesh well with how you have to deploy them. And for some reason Games Workshop still hates Autocannons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm thinking 6 Devastators with 3 Lascannons Possibly a razorback. Thoughts? ( I use IF tactics and would have two squads equal equipment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Way expensive for what you get, depending on the turret weapon. These days, I only buy a razorback for my plasmagun command squad. They never ride in it, though. I'd rather buy a pred at that point. My 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I've been running 2 squads of HB and a squad of Lascannons (all w/ imperial fist tactics), and have been having a lot of fun with it. Adding a 55 pt. Divination inquisitor in the mix make the lascannon squad pretty good for taking down flyers and (most) armor, and 24 HB shots will do quite a bit of damage to most things in the game. I like this a lot for Imp Fist because you get to re-roll the 1s on the HBs and they have tank hunter so they are pretty good at taking out lighter vehicles. The lascannons obviously work really well as well. To Mr More Tanks' question: I think there is a place for Devs compared to TFCs, but not often. I suspect one could get more mileage out of tacticals split up with Razorbacks and then TFCs in the HS slots. Something like 4 10-man tacticals, with 4 lascannons, and 4 las/plas Razors. TFCs cover light vehicle/infantry killing duty and the tactical lascannons and the razors help with anti-tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I know Razorbacks are so last edition. Ineffective and easily killed, but it is always an.option. I love the plasma gun/lascannon ten man tactical squad in a TL Plas/las back. Combat squad the las plas into five , then the five bolters.go in ride to score. That's a topic for another thread. 164 points for 3 las cannons on 6 bodies isn't that expensive actually. I like it in doubles for IF. Lots of tank killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I know Razorbacks are so last edition. Ineffective and easily killed, but it is always an.option. I love the plasma gun/lascannon ten man tactical squad in a TL Plas/las back. Combat squad the las plas into five , then the five bolters.go in ride to score. I really don't think it is all that bad. 250 pts for that is pretty decent. Covers a lot of bases and is pretty durable overall. First blood is an issue, of course, but that's true of a lot of builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I feel like the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon costs are about right these days- Missiles are definitely overpriced, though (10pts is just about perfect this edition; 15 would've been more appropriate last edition), Heavy Bolters just aren't a very attractive weapon, and Multimeltas don't mesh well with how you have to deploy them. And for some reason Games Workshop still hates Autocannons. Agree on the las, plas and MM. MMs mesh with lascannons pretty nicely. They cost half as much and it true that las devs aren't always shooting at 25+" away. Often the target is right in front of you. Heavy bolters should be 5pts each. As for autocannons, I think GW is still trying to distinguish between CSM weapons and SM weapons, which is why SM don't get autocannons. I do think SM should have both heavy flamer and assault cannon access, as both of those make sense on SM devastators and would look really cool. As for the missiles, I think the flakk is too expensive (should be free or 5pt upgrade), but I think the regular is perfectly priced. I have not found the flakk missiles to be worth an extra 10pts - I'll take them on some units for a lack of other AA options. I'd also like to see a unit of scout devastators. Same unit design, but only missiles and HB access. Same infiltrate, scout, and camo cloak access as troops version. No signum, no improved BS. Just scouts with option to take 0-4 heavy weapons. Would be very impressive, I think. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I don't see enemies advancing into Multimelta range often, so I consider them a pretty middling choice more because of tactics than numbers. I'm fine with SM not getting Autocannons... but then why do they get Autocannons on Dreads and Preds and why do IG get them? I feel like they need to make some actual decisions there. HF and AC options would be cool- it really weirds me out that for some reason Heavy Flamers are an incredibly precious resource that can only be given to Sternguard. HBs should be 5pts. This should've been the way of things for a long time now- they're not worth more than a token cost, as you're giving up the ability to hurt tanks for increased damage to infantry. That is almost never a good plan. Missiles lost out a lot this edition- we don't see as many light tanks anymore, and AP3 means they aren't getting a bonus on the damage table. Those are both strikes against them, but not crippling ones. But MCs are also trending towards 2+ armor now, which also makes a difference, and fortifications mean that the difference between S8 and S9 is pretty big. If Missiles came with Frag, Krak and Flakk for 15pts... yeah, that would be pretty good. For 20pts? Mmm, maybe. But 25pts? Absolutely not. Similarly, if Flakk Missiles were S8 AP3 Skyfire, I'd be solid on them, but as it stands their strength and AP are just too low to be relevant. (Mind you, I appreciate that they didn't just make them a "FMCs die instantly" weapon, but that is a problem of its own.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I don't see enemies advancing into Multimelta range often, so I consider them a pretty middling choice more because of tactics than numbers. I'm fine with SM not getting Autocannons... but then why do they get Autocannons on Dreads and Preds and why do IG get them? I feel like they need to make some actual decisions there. HF and AC options would be cool- it really weirds me out that for some reason Heavy Flamers are an incredibly precious resource that can only be given to Sternguard. HBs should be 5pts. This should've been the way of things for a long time now- they're not worth more than a token cost, as you're giving up the ability to hurt tanks for increased damage to infantry. That is almost never a good plan. Missiles lost out a lot this edition- we don't see as many light tanks anymore, and AP3 means they aren't getting a bonus on the damage table. Those are both strikes against them, but not crippling ones. But MCs are also trending towards 2+ armor now, which also makes a difference, and fortifications mean that the difference between S8 and S9 is pretty big. If Missiles came with Frag, Krak and Flakk for 15pts... yeah, that would be pretty good. For 20pts? Mmm, maybe. But 25pts? Absolutely not. Similarly, if Flakk Missiles were S8 AP3 Skyfire, I'd be solid on them, but as it stands their strength and AP are just too low to be relevant. (Mind you, I appreciate that they didn't just make them a "FMCs die instantly" weapon, but that is a problem of its own.) Agree on everything, but the multi-meltas and I bet that's a matter of playstyle. I face a pod SW/BA army recently where they really lacked blast/template weapons, so I turtled in a corner (kill points). Having an MM mixed with the las would have been nice as having an extra 10pts would have helped and I don't think I would have missed the 24" and -1 S on one of the weapons. I don't think the MM alone would be viable unless you could ensure they were relentless/TL. MM are pretty cheap. I have been tempted to test a dev squad with 4 MMs, a combi-MG and a drop pod. Not a sure thing, so probably not worth the points, but that 12" melta range would be quite useful on a DS unit. Unit is 155pts with pod. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Tested 2 units of 5 Devs, 3 HB, 1 Flakk missile launcher. I was extremely pleased with the results, cheap enough to not break banks, and.BS5 skyfire came in handy with the quad gun. The 6 HB reaped a significant number of kills and even dropped a light transport and a skimmer. SOLD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 125 pts for that, correct? Also, just a quick thought, why use the BS5 with the quad gun and not on the flakk missile and then TL BS4 with a different one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Tested 2 units of 5 Devs, 3 HB, 1 Flakk missile launcher. I was extremely pleased with the results, cheap enough to not break banks, and.BS5 skyfire came in handy with the quad gun. The 6 HB reaped a significant number of kills and even dropped a light transport and a skimmer. SOLD! So one of the HB devs is firing the quad? Remember that the sarge gives up his shooting so another model is BS5 with the signum. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAPcom Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Also, if I'm interpreting the rules correctly, if you're using IF devs, and the sarge mans the quad gun, it gets tank hunter, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes it confers Kapcom. Yes, the sergeant signums the Flakk, and a HB bro hopped on the quad when necessary. Sorry if I was unclear. Yes its 125 points Fluger. I may swap some points around to get 2 ablative wounds in both squads. That way one can man the quad with no loss of fire power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ah good. That makes more sense. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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