IG super heavies

[Guest]

Bought one today. That "new" baneblade kit. Kit makes, eight different tanks. After looking closely at sprues, looks like magnetization is probably not realistic. I might be able to assemble it as 2 or 3 tanks with either magnets or just fitting in place, but very difficult for all eight. Even if completely magnetized, I may be spending more on magnets than on a second baneblade, just tons of options.

 

So, first question:

 

Which baneblade variant is best?

 

Answer is probably dependant on the rest of my list, but in turn then rest of my list is dependant on the bane blade variant. DA or GK allies are likely with any variant.

 

Next question, sponsons?

 

50pts each set of 2, up to two sets, and the option for no weapons too. I am curious if I could take one set and put both on the same side, but it does seem like something that is probably a no. I'll also note that a second set of sponsons is not included, so I'd have to buy those separately ($25 at GG for the set, fresh on sprue).

 

No sponsons or just on one side would allow a closer fit against a wall, a fortification, tanks, or other super heavies. In particular, could snuggle up against the side of a Firestorm redoubt and almost completely conceal the super heavy tank, for at least one side arc.

 

Sponsons, on the other hand, bring lascannons and TL HBs or HFs, which increase crowd control ability as the super heavy is able to fire each weapon at a different target, even if firing ordnance. The D weapon tank also has to option to replace one set of sponson lascannons for a +1 BS.

 

Beyond this, other upgrades include stubber/storm bolter and HK missile. Normally, I'd write these off as they often mess with the target priority, but the super heavy can fire all at different targets, so it does make them matter more.

 

Of the tanks, the stormlord, Doomhammer, and Banehammer are transports, while the others aren't. The Doom and Bane Hammers hold 25, with 10 firing out, while the stormlord holds 40 with 20 able to fire out. Again, as the super heavy ignores shaken and stunned, plus can hold multiple units, transport capacity is pretty impressive. 

 

A few of the tanks also have apocalypse specific upgrades:

 

The command tank upgrade which allows the tank to be considered an HQ choice (Stormsword, Shadowsword, Banesword, Baneblade). I know this grants an additonal strategic asset, and I think it means the tank can be the warlord in apocalypse.

 

The Baneblade, Banesword, and Shadowsword also have an upgrade that grants IG models with 12" Leadership 10, again, apocalypse only.

 

Cheapest variant is the banehammer at 410pts, and their costs can really go upwards from there to, I think a max of 895pts for a tooled out apocalypse baneblade or 655pts for an escalation hellhammer.

 

In terms of coping with flyers, really only the Stormlord has a main weapon that can realistically target/kill flyers, as it can dump 30 shots at S6 into a flyer, even if it must roll 6s to hit. All the tanks do have TL heavy bolter access, so it would be feasible that any could cope with flyers.

 

Sorry, perhaps too much of a rant. I'm overload with options and wanted suggestions for assembly/use.

 

As for my own thoughts, I'm torn between one of the transport variants and the D weapon variant (Shadowsword). A D weapon could certainly tip many games in my favor, but being able to hide troops inside a super-heavy transport could also dramatically increase my odds of success. I could be convinced of any, as I'm really unsure on even the ones I lean to.

 

If it matters, my IG are sort of a Mech-Catachan force.

-Pax

[Threejacks]

  I briefly looked over the instructions on mine a few weeks back and thought it seemed pretty easy for full magnetizing but yeah its gonna take a lot of mags,heh.

 

 I would go for the Stormlord for the transport capacity.I think its an assault vehicle too?.Eiither way a 40 man blob to the face will certainly cause problems.

[Gorgosaurusrex]

A Stormlord with Divination support is a great option, as is the stock Baneblade. The Shadowsword (or whichever one has SD) is probably the most competitive varient though.

[generalripphook]

Well wince everyone was complaining about D weapons, id go with one without a D weapo if you plan on using it in escalation.

[WestRider]

StormLord (Anti-MEq+Heavy Weapon Squad fun), basic BaneBlade (All-rounder), and the ShadowSword (Gots the D) are the ones that have always appealed to me. Might want to look into whether it's feasible to magnetize among just those three options.

 

I wouldn't bother trying to cover AA with one of them. Leave that to dedicated Units and let your very expensive Super-Heavy focus on what it's designed to do.

 

Well, my very favorite is the StormBlade, but for some reason GW decided not to bring that one over to Plastic.

[Guest]

StormLord (Anti-MEq+Heavy Weapon Squad fun), basic BaneBlade (All-rounder), and the ShadowSword (Gots the D) are the ones that have always appealed to me. Might want to look into whether it's feasible to magnetize among just those three options.

 

I wouldn't bother trying to cover AA with one of them. Leave that to dedicated Units and let your very expensive Super-Heavy focus on what it's designed to do.

 

Well, my very favorite is the StormBlade, but for some reason GW decided not to bring that one over to Plastic.

Love the Stormblade too, I think, though the reason is that it's gun would require a lot more sprue. The other weapons are all slight variations of each other.

-Pax

[Guest]

Started taking the kit apart and trying to figure out if I can fully magnetize it. Then it hit me, I could build one version and have a ton of bits left over.   This kit has some pretty awesome bits, enough for amazing terrain, custom fortifications, or for more flavorful IG vehicles. I might be tempted to buy a few of these kits....

-Pax

[fluger]

StormLord (Anti-MEq+Heavy Weapon Squad fun), basic BaneBlade (All-rounder), and the ShadowSword (Gots the D) are the ones that have always appealed to me. Might want to look into whether it's feasible to magnetize among just those three options.

Those appeared to be the standouts to me as well from just looking at the books.  

[Guest]

StormLord (Anti-MEq+Heavy Weapon Squad fun), basic BaneBlade (All-rounder), and the ShadowSword (Gots the D) are the ones that have always appealed to me. Might want to look into whether it's feasible to magnetize among just those three options.

Did you peek at the hell hammer? Likely better than the baneblade for stock model. Slightly smaller blast (massive still), but denies cover and is S10 and ap1. Range is half, but turret mounted, like the baneblade, so should be easy enough to position to get full table cover.

 

In general, all are pretty good tanks, depending on role.

 

The banehammer is an interesting one, as aside from it's massive "battle cannon" round, it causes dangerous terrain for any models under the template that survive. Sure, won't really hinder terminators, but dangerous terrain does ignore cover saves as well as being able to immobilize vehicles (without any save option), so there is some value for it even if it doesn't really damage the target with the initial shot. This one is a transport too,

 

The Banesword seems lacking, as it's just a armored direct fire basilisk with a 15" blast. Still, not too lacking.

 

Doomhammer is a vindicator with 60" range and a troop transport as the banehammer.

 

The stormsword is just like the hellhammer, but a bit cheaper and has a slightly larger blast, though unlike the hell hammer, no turret.

 

Oh, something to bear in mind regarding super heavy transports:

 

First, the super heavy transport can hold any number of units. So in example, a super-heavy transport with a capacity of 25 could hold a commissar lord, 2 heavy weapon squads, a primaris psyker, a tech priest, and a veteran squad.

 

Second, the units inside are in a transport, so can fire overwatch out of firepoints. This does mean that a super heavy transport is considerably less vulnerable to assaulting units than a superheavy without transport capacity.

 

Third, and this is important, when the super heavy loses it's last hp, units inside will take S10 ap2 hits for each model in their unit. As if that weren't enough, survivors must fit where the super heavy was, or they are destroyed. Yeah, putting all your troops in the super heavy is a liability if the opponent can actually destroy it.

-Pax

[Guest]

Okay, so another one.

 

Started tinkering with the sponsons. Looks like the GW kit doesn't include enough plate bits to field no sponsons, so I'd have to purchase another sponson sprue just to field the stock model. Annoying.

 

Also, HBs or HFs? Originally, I had written off the Heavy flames, but then I got to thinking. A super heavy vehicle can't be stunned or shaken and moves 12" per turn, with ability to fire everything. If I played the super heavy aggressively, I could move 12" per turn, fire the main gun at whatever makes sense, then flame anything nearby. It would certainly make me more vulnerable to melta weapons, but there is some logic here.

 

HBs could work too.

 

Oh, and if the shadowsword, lascannons or targeters? The +1 BS might not be all that impressive as his weapons are all TL or blast weapons. Then again, 1" less deviation might really matter on a D weapon.

-Pax

[Threejacks]

  Wondering about the Transport rule for Super heavys..it states that for the purposes of Embarking and Disembarking they are considered "opened topped".

 

Does this mean that they are also Assault Vehicles as per the BRB(Passengers charging from opened topped transports ,page 82)?

[fluger]

RCNJack, the only IG model that has that is the Stormlord.  The others don't.  Or maybe I'm misremembering.  

[WestRider]

Yeah, the BaneHammer and DoomHammer are enclosed and have Fire Points and Access Points. The StormLord would function as an Assault Transport if you want to load it up with Ogryns or a Power Blob or something, tho.

 

@Pax: The short range on the HellHammer is actually a serious downside to me. 36" is mediocre range for even regular Heavy Weapons, if I'm running IG Super-Heavy stuff, I want some reach out and touch someone capability. I've got plenty of other options for close in work.

[Guest]

Pax: The short range on the HellHammer is actually a serious downside to me. 36" is mediocre range for even regular Heavy Weapons, if I'm running IG Super-Heavy stuff, I want some reach out and touch someone capability. I've got plenty of other options for close in work.

I did see that. Hmm...you might be right.

 

Question regarding the Banesword. It's the only direct-fire weapon I've seen with a minimum range. Might be a typo. What does it do? There are no rules regarding direct-fire weapons with minimum range.

 

Another consideration would be allies/other units.

 

So, in example, if my DA field lots of terminators, one of the AP3 versions of the primary weapon may have additional merit, as scattering blasts/puppet master could really be a burden for my army.

 

Likewise, abilities like puppet master or mind in the machine can't pivot my super heavy, so tanks with a fixed primary weapon position might have more value than one with a turret in this respect. Perhaps this is paranoid, but I do see quite a bit of value in using the enemy super heavy's weapons against themselves. I can certainly see the baneblade or hellhammer becoming a liability should a necron player field the ankyr the traveller and on 3s, force you to fire at your own models with your own super heavy. In this respect, sponsons also present potential liability. Walkers are FAQed to pivot with puppet master, so a revenant could become a huge problem for an eldar army...

 

Getting to thinking, might need to start fielding my IG with necron allies just to get ankyr on the table for just this purpose.

 

Oh, before I forget, was assembling parts of the IG kit for their super heavies, they come with smoke launchers. I had to double check the book. Why would I ever forgo shooting with a super heavy to get a meager 5+ cover save? I suppose since they can't go flat out, might have merit if using as an assault vehicle. Still, very surprising.

 

Presently, I'm leaning on the Banehammer with no sponsons. 410pts, troop transport, weapon has 60" of range and is otherwise equipped with a 10" battle cannon. Tricky bit is that it causes dangerous for those hit that survive. Not really great for other superheavies, as those are immune to dangerous. Still, I like it because it has all the strengths with a battle cannon, but also has a method of coping with amazing cover saves (dangerous terrain denies cover saves). At 410pts, I think I can get my AT elsewhere and not be so crippled if my superheavy is destroyed by the enemy. I do have a tendency towards MSU, so this would be the MSU of the IG superheavies.

-Pax

[Guest]

Well, botched the stormlord options. Accidentally glued on bit wrong and couldn't make it, so I've got 1 less build to worry about fielding....fail. Not a huge problem. Without the Stormlord, magnetizing becomes loads easier.

-Pax

[InfestedKerrigan]

I've always been a fan of a Shadowsword with BS 4 Marine at it's helm.  Would go well with your DA/GK.

[Guest]

Tried the banehammer today. Interesting results. I'm not sure it's worth the points or the slot, but I'm not sure the other way either. Bottom line is that inclusion of a superheavy that doesn't have heavy duty offensive power does mean that I must be sure to include that with the rest of the army. It is just as durable as any other IG superheavy, so even if the damage output isn't amazing, it can still soak fire pretty well.

 

In our game it did come up that the rear fire point, the "troop bay" doesn't have any LOS over the turret of the tank. My understanding is that the vehicle can block TLOS to the firepoints of that same vehicle. This meant that despite the banehammer's 10 guys that can fire out, they can't shoot anything in the tank's front arc. I can work with this, but I thought I'd mention it.

 

Oh, as I read the escalation rules, IG must be primary to include the IG superheavy, can someone verify this? Would be really nice if I could include DA/GK HQs as my warlord, instead of the light-weight IG HQs.

 

Furthermore, looks like only IG can be transported in the IG superheavy. This does limit my options. Again, I can work with this.

-Pax

[Guest]

Not sure if I'm just talking to my self on this thread.

 

So, another thing came up. Was wondering how tank shocks and rams worked, so I looked it up on the superheavy rules. Wow...combined with 12" movement and ignoring dangerous terrain, that is useful. On roll of 1, as normal. 2-5, add d6 to armor pen result or d6 S6 hits. On a 6, 2d6 S10 or pushes the enemy vehicle away d6" and auto-explodes it. Remember that the banehammer is AV14 front, so it's 4+1 for every full 3" (so, +3 max), plus another D6 on a 2-6. So, looking at a 9" ram being S8 minimum (9 if superheavies are considered tanks), then add 2d6 penetration, so auto-glance AV10, with pretty solid odds to create further havoc.

 

I'm starting to like the cheap Banehammer even more, as tank shocking/raming should be a pretty solid solution to lots of threats that the main gun can't cope with.

 

I have been re-considering sponsons. In particular, the TL heavy flamers. Deal is that the vehicle can move 12" per turn, so it really has the threat value of a bane wolf in that respect. Might even go so far as to include two sets. Sponsons also come with Lascannons, which are pretty cheap for IG standards. Still, drives up the cost quite a bit. Makes the tank occupy 1/4th of a 2k list instead of 1/5th. Other drawback is that heavy flamers can't snapshoot, so they can't be used if I ram, or am otherwise forced to snap shoot. I remain undecided on this point. Might build them to be removable.

-Pax

[galahad911]

IMO, the Stormlord with 20 HWTs in it is likely the best, all around Baneblade variant. The amount of fire that puts out really is strong.

[WestRider]

My favorite thing about Super Heavy Tank Shocks is that it's called the ThunderBlitz table. Or, if you translate the other part into English, the ThunderLightning table. Either no one at GW speaks any German, or someone does and he's trolling ;)

[Guest]

IMO, the Stormlord with 20 HWTs in it is likely the best, all around Baneblade variant. The amount of fire that puts out really is strong.

Very noteworthy is that if the Stormlord is destroyed, the models inside must take a S10 ap2 hit each. Those that survive, must be able to fit under where the stormlord was or are destroyed. So, heavy weapon teams on those 60mm bases are very vulnerable to being destroyed along with the stormlord.

 

Also noteworthy is that models firing from the troop bay can't see over the front turret. So, mortars are probably your real option, and you can't move the tank if you do that.

 

Last, stormlords are really expensive, especially with included cargo. Example, heavy weapon teams are units of 3, so 6 heavy weapon teams (18 bulky bases) is the max to put inside, maybe with characters added. So 18 with mortars is 360pts. The stormlord is base 480pts. That's 840pts. If you add the sponsons, say, because you want the lascannons, it can go up to 940pts. That's much more than the revenant for a unit that will likely die to a single turn of shooting from a revenant (cargo will likely die too, even if the D weapons can't shoot the contents of the vehicle they destroyed that turn)...

-Pax

[galahad911]

Very noteworthy is that if the Stormlord is destroyed, the models inside must take a S10 ap2 hit each. Those that survive, must be able to fit under where the stormlord was or are destroyed. So, heavy weapon teams on those 60mm bases are very vulnerable to being destroyed along with the stormlord.

 

Also noteworthy is that models firing from the troop bay can't see over the front turret. So, mortars are probably your real option, and you can't move the tank if you do that.

 

Last, stormlords are really expensive, especially with included cargo. Example, heavy weapon teams are units of 3, so 6 heavy weapon teams (18 bulky bases) is the max to put inside, maybe with characters added. So 18 with mortars is 360pts. The stormlord is base 480pts. That's 840pts. If you add the sponsons, say, because you want the lascannons, it can go up to 940pts. That's much more than the revenant for a unit that will likely die to a single turn of shooting from a revenant (cargo will likely die too, even if the D weapons can't shoot the contents of the vehicle they destroyed that turn)...

-Pax

 

So... turn the tank a little so you can see around the turret? Why would you bother with sponsons when you have HWTs shooting out of it?

 

Yes, it's a lot of points, but if you have to point at a revenant as a reason not to do it. Well, thanks for making my point about the revenant for me.

[Guest]

Another game. 1k, hammer and anvil, kill points.

 

Primaris

ratlings (4)

vets (as above) 2 units

vendetta

rough riders (5, 2 melta)

Banehammer

hydra

 

opponent was daemons. Guo, thirster, prince and two units of plague bearers.

 

killed guo with tank shock at full health.

 

thirster died to vendetta

 

prince died in explosion of the super heavy.

 

failed to kill the plague bearers. Psychic shooting missed every turn. Lost most of infantry in tank explosion. Enemy had less units total, which ultimately won him the game. Lost to kp, though did suffer heavy losses too.

 

cell post

-Pax

[ROGRE]

Watching my guo get detonated by the tank-shock was definitely a new 40k experience. Destroying your super heavy was a must for me but it did come at quite a price.

An interesting game for sure.

[Guest]

Yeah, not sure if I want the banehammer for future games. The transport capacity did very little to my advantage and I would have been much better off putting troops in two vendettas.

 

Tank shock was really effective, as was the explosion of the destroyed banehammer (IDed a daemon prince), though those were both only achieved by lucky rolls of 6 on their respective tables.

 

I am considering refitting the Banehammer as a Banesword. 10" basilisk blast, but a minimum range of 24 inches. Cost difference is 20pts more and it has no transport capacity. Logic is that if you are at long range, the cannon is much more likely to damage enemy vehicles and hit infantry, while if inside mimimum range I can probably tank shock/ram you (the ram table is pretty awesome too, though as per normal ram, you can't shoot if you ram, which suits a tank with a minimum range quite well). This switch would mean needing alternate transport options, as well as a need to design a list around forcing the enemy beyond 24" or using the tank to lure them within 24 inches.

 

In this particular game, the Stormlord would have been a terrible choice. I would have been inclined to remain stationary to fire at the daemons twice with the main gun, which would have resulted in a much faster death. As is, I really was aided in survivable by moving every turn (and some pretty poor daemon rolling). Units inside might have been helpful, but it was very noteworthy that assaults from the front arc could not have LOS drawn, so overwatch was limited for my banehammer and would have also been the case for the stormlord. Upon explosion, Vets #1 lost all but a heavy weapon team, Vets #2 lost all but a sarge and heavy weapon team, ratlings and warlord lost 3 members - this was how many 1s my opponent rolled on the to wound rolls - more models inside would have been a bigger disaster. 

-Pax