X-Wing Wave 4 - Sh*t just got real...

[Munkie]

I guess that's where you and I differ on this point - I think any one pilot rarely "gets it done by himself" in this game. There's plenty of good reasons to run each pilot with a wingman, rather than on their own for both offensive and defensive reasons. Wedge has been the only pilot I've flow who I can reliably say has one-shotted enemies - with almost everyone else, it takes concentration of fire from 2-3 ships to really get the job done when you need to. Just too many variables otherwise. Based on my "basement meta" the X-Wing's toughness tends to see it out into the mid-late game, where its strong offense really starts to become more influential regardless of who's behind the stick. When it's my A-Wings that last until the late game, it's a much tougher fight as they simply don't have the firepower to finish many ships off in a duel.

 

That's exactly my point though. Wes has great firepower, but no ability to back it up. Sure, he's fine on the first couple turns when your formation is still intact; but in the mid-to-late game when a strong offense is key to finishing off all those wounded ships, he's just an X-pensive X-wing. I'm not sooo fixated on points that I won't try out uncommon things, but when he costs the same and flies the same ship as Wedge, it's hard not to compare them directly. Wedge is good at the start, great at the middle, and clutch at the end, and Wes's usefulness peters out. He's a support pilot in a hammer ship and I don't like it. Imagine him in a HWK though!

 

"I roll my 1 attack die at Soontir Fel, who's behind an asteroid at range 3, with a stealth device, and an evade token. That's 6 dice and an evade token. Oh look, I miss, go ahead and remove that evade token now. Now my B-Wing is going to fire his HLC at Soontir..."

 

Wes is cool, he's just in the wrong damn ship.

 

 

That's a good combo, but a) that's a 1/game trick, and b) that's a heckuva lot of work to get a 3 die shot on someone. I dig A-Wings for a lot of reasons, but their strong offensive capability is not one of them :) Hobbie, or any other X-Wing pilot, can dish 3 damage at any range, can endure one more hit in the process, and can take the Astromech upgrade (the winner for my own personal Most Improved X-Wing Upgrade Slot 2014 so far with Wave 4 and the Rebel Transport available). Obviously, I can't say which is better until we get our hot little hands on these new guys, but I'm game to try putting my money where my mouth is and let you know if any of these ideas actually work :)

 

a) The k-turn trick is one use only and only costs a point, not bad IMO

b) Heckuva lot of words maybe, but not much work. The only trick is keeping him within proper range of Katarn, Garven, or Lando, but with the manuverability of the A-Wing and considering he can boost once and boost/barrel roll once on his own, he should be able to stay in that range pretty darn well.

 

The last bit we can definitely agree on. I'm stoked to start playtesting these guys, and now that the TIE defender's dial and 3 of its pilots have been revealed, finding Imperial players willing to proxy should be pretty easy!

[Jim Emerick]

porkins was supposed to have a much bigger role in the movie. however he had a heart attack during filming and died....apparently he couldn't "hold it"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHlp2vMyknQ

The actor who played Porkins (William Hootkins) did not die until 2005, of pancreatic cancer, according to his imdb listing.

 

He was also one of the government agents who came to see Indy in Raiders, BTW.

 

Jim

[Burk]

Well I am wrong.  Guess that teaches me to trust what was said on the FFG forum.

[smashthedean]

I'm taking some newly printed out TIE Defender dials out for a test run tonight. Definitely interested to see how they fare.

[AscentStudios]

I'm taking some newly printed out TIE Defender dials out for a test run tonight. Definitely interested to see how they fare.

My thoughts:

 

Wow. That dial is a little surprising (red 2 turns?) but there's a lot of possibilities there. Interesting also that all the ship's straight maneuvers are green - looks like they intend for it to be a fast mover like a jet, strafing then coming around via the white K-Turn to make another attack. Engine Upgrade and Push the Limit will make these things crazy fast. Interesting thing I'm hearing about the Defender is it's about as durable as a Firespray, thanks to the dial and +1 AG, which is always what I expected for the points - a Large ship on a small base.

 

Pilots are a little meh (kinda sad, as I was hoping for someone actually good or team oriented to fly a ship that's not made out of tissue paper) - the PS8 guy could be good backed by a TIE swarm, as he can blow focus to make regular damage crits (even against Chewie!)...but it's too bad there's no way for Imperials to pass focus around like the Rebels.

 

Outmaneuver may be the superstar cards of that set, since lets nearly any fast ship become Wedge. I've been running Tetran Cowall (Imperial Aces pilot who can freely choose his K-Turns) with Outmaneuver and it's very rare he can't line up a 4 dice shot that also knocks out an enemy defense die. I had him harassing Chewbacca last game and he really put the wookie on the ropes. Mauler Mithel with Outmaneuver is similarly awesome - at Range 1, he's a 20 pt. Wedge. I'd say this upgrade is the first legitimate contender to Push the Limit on the Interceptor in my book.

 

Predator has a lot of really interesting possibilities for strong shooting ships - Wedge will love it (as will most XWing and BWing pilots); Chewie can use it to turn himself into a mini-Han Solo without having to spring for a Gunner, particularly against hordes; and Trellix on the Firespray is gonna easily get passed over by a Fett or Scarlett with this upgrade.

[Munkie]

I'm gonna try Wedge with Outmaneuver. It may turn other pilots into him, but it turns him into the God of Murder.

[AscentStudios]

I'm gonna try Wedge with Outmaneuver. It may turn other pilots into him, but it turns him into the God of Murder.

/agree. I'd say setting him up that way makes Wedge a giant target (as if he weren't already), but then he never flies without the Rebellion's greatest martyr, Biggs...so Wedge will probably be able to pull off his little trick once. After that, Biggs will either be dead, or Wedge will be out of formation, then it's goodbye Red-2 :)

[Munkie]

I didn't bring Biggs and boy did I regret it. I wasn't trying to build a super competitive list so much as try out some of the new shenanigans. Also, wedge wasn't particularly interested in being super competitive either. Lotsa blanks. He managed to land one hit before he died. Still not giving up on him, though.

 

I also tried a green a-wing with PTL, VI, test pilot (duh), and refit. He was fine but nothing to write home about. I'll be trying the 15 point A-wing next time.

[AscentStudios]

I didn't bring Biggs and boy did I regret it. I wasn't trying to build a super competitive list so much as try out some of the new shenanigans. Also, wedge wasn't particularly interested in being super competitive either. Lotsa blanks. He managed to land one hit before he died. Still not giving up on him, though.

Interesting. I've been more compelled to give Wedge Predator (reroll 1 attack dice, or 2 if PS2 or lower) as I think he's good enough at one-shotting 3 Hull ships already...and I also tend to roll really crappy :)

 

I also tried a green a-wing with PTL, VI, test pilot (duh), and refit. He was fine but nothing to write home about. I'll be trying the 15 point A-wing next time.

I've been doing similar stuff with my Greens, which I adore, but I think they're better if you abuse the double-EPS shenanagins a bit more, since they're the only ships that can thus far. PTL + Outmaneuver, or PTL + Adrenaline Rush let you do some pretty fun stuff for the same price as an plain-jane X-wing. I ran against a Jake Farrell A-Wing with all the fixin's + PTL and Outmaneuver...the only thing that locked him down was a Kath Scarlet Firespray with Rebel Captive and Ion Cannon :)

[Munkie]

Interesting. I've been more compelled to give Wedge Predator (reroll 1 attack dice, or 2 if PS2 or lower) as I think he's good enough at one-shotting 3 Hull ships already...and I also tend to roll really crappy :)

 

Yeah I want to try that out too, but I wanted to see how this went first. Predator definitely would've been better considering my rolls. But I think you're right, with Outmaneuver on him, there will be no reason for anyone to be pointing their ships at anybody BUT him. It might work with the falcon in the same list so there's another high priority target to consider.

 

 

I've been doing similar stuff with my Greens, which I adore, but I think they're better if you abuse the double-EPS shenanagins a bit more, since they're the only ships that can thus far. PTL + Outmaneuver, or PTL + Adrenaline Rush let you do some pretty fun stuff for the same price as an plain-jane X-wing. I ran against a Jake Farrell A-Wing with all the fixin's + PTL and Outmaneuver...the only thing that locked him down was a Kath Scarlet Firespray with Rebel Captive and Ion Cannon :)

 

Yeah PtL and Adrenaline Rush is my ideal combo, but I don't own that card. My policy is that I don't play with cards I don't own (unless I'm playtesting not-yet-released cards). It takes the fun out of the collectible side of the game, IMO. I like that Jake build but a 28 point A-Wing makes me cringe. I'll give it a shot sometime I'm sure, but I think the aforementioned PtL+AR will be the route I go (once I obtain that card). I can justify 26 points but for some reason those 2 more makes me hesitate. Silly, I know.

 

I think the next list I'll try will be:

 

35: Keyan Farlander w/ PtL, Advanced Sensors

29: Dutch Vander w/ Ion Cannon, R2 astromech

21: Rookie

15: Prototype Pilot w/ a bottle of Chardaanay

 

The focus here is extremely efficient shooters. With both Farlander and the rookie having (essentially) a focus and TL every turn, they should be able to start causing problems for people really quickly. Dutch handles flankers and the prototype pilot runs some interference. Looks like fun.

[AscentStudios]

I think the next list I'll try will be:

 

35: Keyan Farlander w/ PtL, Advanced Sensors

29: Dutch Vander w/ Ion Cannon, R2 astromech

21: Rookie

15: Prototype Pilot w/ a bottle of Chardaanay

 

The focus here is extremely efficient shooters. With both Farlander and the rookie having (essentially) a focus and TL every turn, they should be able to start causing problems for people really quickly. Dutch handles flankers and the prototype pilot runs some interference. Looks like fun.

I ran up against a Farlander list (we have no qualms about proxying in our weekly games) and he's just brutal. This list would get even nastier by swapping out the Rookie and Prototype for 3 Bandit Headhunters...gives you the bodies and a bit more firepower with slightly-less-than-X-Wing dials.

 

My new Rebel list once the Rebel Transport and Tantive IV drop...

 

52: Chewbacca with Expert Handling, Gunner, C-3PO

25: Biggs

23: Tarn Mison

 

While this list is light on firepower for a Rebel fleet, it's tough as nails. Chewie is really tough to get a bead on, and with a Gunner he doesn't really have to worry about stress very much. C-3PO is hands down my favorite crew on a YT - with only one AG die, you can guess 0 Evades and *always* get an Evade (if you get none, you get +1 Evade; if you roll an Evade, well, you can keep it). Beats the Falcon title if you've got the space for the crew on your ship. Biggs, as usual, just prowls around at Range 3 waiting to die. Tarn is a fair trade for a Rookie (+1 PS plus his neat little ability) or a Red (same price, -1 PS but has an ability). Should be fun.

[Munkie]

Oh wow! I didn't think about guessing 0 with 3PO. I thought he was cool enough in a 1 agility ship anyway (like the new expanded B-Wing as well). Either double dodge or none at all. I do feel sorry for the pilot though, being stuck with the universe's most unbearable back seat driver in...the back seat.

 

RE: Farlander. I also want to try him with some advanced torps. He's guaranteed at least 3 hits, but will land 5 more often than not--which is pretty insane.

[Jim Emerick]

Rebel Transports are off the boat and shipping now. Expected at retailers by 4/30/14.

 

"The first transport is away!"

 

Jim

[Munkie]

Very excite!

[smashthedean]

That list looks good, I'm thinking Keyan will be a big-time badass and find a home in all of my Rebel lists. I've been looking at something similar with:

 

[35] Keyan Farlander + Push the Limit + Advanced Sensors

[27] Dagger Squadron Pilot + Advanced Sensors

[23] Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret

[15] Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit

 

I just love me some B-Wangs and think Rookies kind of suck.

 

Also, for those not in the know, Kevin played that Outmaneuver Wedge against me trying out the TIE Defender, and the Defender did really well! I ran:

 

[36] Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Stealth Device + Hull Upgrade

[34] Turr Phennir + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Stealth Device + Hull Upgrade

[30] Delta Squadron Pilot

 

I basically homed every single ship in on Wedge from the beginning since I knew he was by far the greatest threat in town and had to be dealt with. Wedge survived the first round of shooting with a single hull point left and got a K-Turn off to get behind some of my ships that got blocked up more than I was hoping. Thankfully the Defender is K-Turn crazy and was able to polish him off after Wedge landed a damage or two on Turr. Throughout the rest of the game I was able to do lots of fancy Interceptor moves and K-Turn over and over again with the Defender to wrap things up. I definitely feel a lot better about the 30 point investment after a couple of games, but don't see myself putting a Defender in a list that I haven't already bought my star Interceptors in. Hammering that point home, my other game testing the same list against Chewie, a Blue, and a Rookie saw Soontir facing off alone against both Chewie and the Rook and managing to come out with a win in the end. I just don't see myself ever putting anything into an Imperial list before I spend my 30+ on the Baron.

[Munkie]

That list looks good, I'm thinking Keyan will be a big-time badass and find a home in all of my Rebel lists. I've been looking at something similar with:

 

[35] Keyan Farlander + Push the Limit + Advanced Sensors

[27] Dagger Squadron Pilot + Advanced Sensors

[23] Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret

[15] Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit

 

I just love me some B-Wangs and think Rookies kind of suck.

Rookies think you suck! I think he'd be fine if paired with Dutch. Having a focus and a TL with 3 attack dice would make him a good closing shooter, when all the focuses and evades have all been used up. I do like that variant of the list too, but I still only have one B-Wang. Woe is me.

 

[36] Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Stealth Device + Hull Upgrade

[34] Turr Phennir + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Stealth Device + Hull Upgrade

[30] Delta Squadron Pilot

 

I basically homed every single ship in on Wedge from the beginning since I knew he was by far the greatest threat in town and had to be dealt with. Wedge survived the first round of shooting with a single hull point left and got a K-Turn off to get behind some of my ships that got blocked up more than I was hoping. Thankfully the Defender is K-Turn crazy and was able to polish him off after Wedge landed a damage or two on Turr. Throughout the rest of the game I was able to do lots of fancy Interceptor moves and K-Turn over and over again with the Defender to wrap things up. I definitely feel a lot better about the 30 point investment after a couple of games, but don't see myself putting a Defender in a list that I haven't already bought my star Interceptors in. Hammering that point home, my other game testing the same list against Chewie, a Blue, and a Rookie saw Soontir facing off alone against both Chewie and the Rook and managing to come out with a win in the end. I just don't see myself ever putting anything into an Imperial list before I spend my 30+ on the Baron.

 

Yeah the Defender seems solid. His movement is predictable and linear, but 3 agility and 6 HP/shields makes up for it, IMO. Besides, his predictability encourages opponents to plan their moves around putting shots on him--which frees up the more nimble Imperial ships to do what they need to do.

 

@AscentStudios, I've been pondering Hobbie more to see if I could come up with something. I'm liking him with the new R3-A2 because the combo all works in one turn and doesn't require a baby-sitter.

 

1) Move

2) TL whomever you'd like

3) Declare your shot, take a stress, deal a stress

4) Use your TL and burn the stress away

 

It's a damn reliable way to punish all those PtL interceptors out there. If they can't get out of his arc, they aren't going to be doing ANY actions next turn. Eat your heart out Soontir Fel! I also like it at 27 points. 28 is when I start looking at Dutch or Biggs w/ R2-F2.

 

I'm also excited about Lt Blount w/ Ion Pulse Missiles for the same reason. If someone uses PtL, they don't get to do any actions on the following turn

[smashthedean]

I'm also excited about Lt Blount w/ Ion Pulse Missiles for the same reason. If someone uses PtL, they don't get to do any actions on the following turn

 

...unless they can kill or stay out of the arc of a 2 defense, 4 hp target with an x-wing dial and PS 6. I feel like Blount isn't the killer badass people are making him out to be due to being in an extremely squishy ship and lacking a good deal of maneuverability. We'll see what happens though.

 

Also, you'll have a second B-Wang once you pick up Rebel Aces!

[AscentStudios]

@Munkie - Digging the idea of Farlander + Advanced Torps very much. Expensive as all hell, but if you toss on Deadeye instead of PTL, you can be making crazy maneuvers (1-Turns, 4 forwards, 2 K's) to gather your stress and get into point blank range for a surprise torpedo up the exhaust port quite easily. Granted, it's not as applicable as PTL during the rest of the game, but if you're willing to fly crazy, I don't think a B necessarily needs PTL in order to get stress....

 

@AscentStudios, I've been pondering Hobbie more to see if I could come up with something. I'm liking him with the new R3-A2 because the combo all works in one turn and doesn't require a baby-sitter.

 

1) Move

2) TL whomever you'd like

3) Declare your shot, take a stress, deal a stress

4) Use your TL and burn the stress away

Nice. That's a very direct way to use him (I still think the EPS astromech + PTL is also solid), but I struggle because I really like R3-A2 on an Ion Turret Y-Wing. Once you line up your target and shoot he immediately suffers stress, then, if he's hit he also gets Ioned...nasty lockdown from a single 25 pt ship. The combination of Ion + Stress is why Kath Scarlet with a Rebel Captive and Ion Cannon rocks so hard...she's totally able to cripple those outflanking fast ships with a combination of multiple stress tokens and/or Ion, then finish them off with the butt cannon as needed.

 

I'm eager to try out my new "Scarlet Sabers" list now...

 

46 - Scarlet with Expert Handling, Ion Cannon, Rebel Captive

27 - Saber Squad with Push the Limit, Hull Upgrade

27 - Saber Squad with Push the Limit, Hull Upgrade

 

Crazy maneuverability plus the ability to lay stress and ion on all those Rebels that now have a big old stress boner should give me some room to abuse. Barrel rolling Firespray is a tough ship to catch...

[smashthedean]

Try as I might, I just can't fall in love with the Firespray. I've run mostly Bounty Hunters and also given Kath and Trellix a go, but just never feel like I'm getting the same bang for my buck that an Interceptor Ace with points to spare, 3-4 TIE Fighters, or all kinds of other random combinations can give. And now with Defenders and Phantoms coming along for 25-30+ points a pop, I just don't feel like I'll ever find room for a Firespray in one of my lists again.

[AscentStudios]

Try as I might, I just can't fall in love with the Firespray. I've run mostly Bounty Hunters and also given Kath and Trellix a go, but just never feel like I'm getting the same bang for my buck that an Interceptor Ace with points to spare, 3-4 TIE Fighters, or all kinds of other random combinations can give. And now with Defenders and Phantoms coming along for 25-30+ points a pop, I just don't feel like I'll ever find room for a Firespray in one of my lists again.

Make no mistake - I think the Firespray can be a tough ship to run. For me, who may well just not be that good at this game, the Firespray excels in that it allows me to have a bad run of dice or make a single mistake without instantly costing me a ship. Its offense is good, its defense is good, and it can pack cannons, missiles, torpedoes (with the Slave I title), and it has the closest approximation to a turret the Imperials get. Maybe I'm overestimating its value vs. a heavily upgraded Interceptor, as I'm historically allergic to dumping 5-10 points in upgrades into any ship that can get taken out in a single shot, but I want to make this swiss army knife of a ship work. I really do think that without a Rebel Captive or Fettigator, a single Firespray is pretty big liability in an Imperial list. Right now, though, I think it's the closest thing Imperials have to a board control ship...and I'm tired of getting rolled by Chewbacca Falcons :)

[Munkie]

...unless they can kill or stay out of the arc of a 2 defense, 4 hp target with an x-wing dial and PS 6. I feel like Blount isn't the killer badass people are making him out to be due to being in an extremely squishy ship and lacking a good deal of maneuverability. We'll see what happens though

I wouldn't call him a killer badass, but I think there is value in dictating Soontir Fel's options by the mere presence if the ship. I'd run him behind my main formation for when PtL interceptors inevitably try to roll around the outside.

 

Sure he's fragile(ish) and slow, but assuming he will NEVER get a shot on Fel the entire game is overly optimistic.

 

Fel survives because stealth devices, asteroids, and long range keep the shots that do head his way from sticking until he can get around behind. Blount doesn't care about any of that, if he gets a shot at all, you're ioned and lose the stealth device. There is zero margin for error when flying against him or you're a sitting duck for a turn. That ain't bad for less than a rookie pilot.

[smashthedean]

After running the Defender, I feel that it can pretty easily take the place of the Firespray as the Empire's toughest ship. 6 hp, 3 agility, and the ability to K-Turn outside of arcs all day long gives it some pretty great staying power.

[Jim Emerick]

CR-90 Corvettes are updated to "On the Boat"!

 

Jim

[AscentStudios]

E-Wing Preview is up, and oh my, is it a doozy: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4783

 

I already am gonna be rocking a 25 point ship - Tarn Mison + R7 Astromech:

 

+ = LURVS

 

There's also some really nasty tricks you can pull with combining the Astromech + Systems upgrades: Advanced Sensors + R7-T1 + Outmaneuver is a no brainer...

 

+ +

 

Take your action, use your TL + Boost move, then K-Turn and blast your target from the back, inflicting -1 AG and still being able to reroll any dice you want. Gross.

 

Both named pilots are frickin' awesome as well. I just wish Imperials had a team player worth a damn live long enough to actually be a named pilot...

[smashthedean]

I just wish they had spoiled the dial :(