X-Wing Wave 4 - Sh*t just got real...

[AscentStudios]

Really wish they would release something instead of just teasing us to death!

Did somebody say Imperial Aces? Yeah, me either.

 

In the meantime, we've got this.

 

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4663

 

Yep, R-2 and C-3PO are upgrades, and looka that upgrade line...this thing could easily get up to 100 pts if you were so inclined. Adding Crew is pretty neat, as Gunners, Navigators, and Weapon Engineers could all make her pretty dang nasty as a warship...that quad laser is pretty rad as a point-defense weapon, too.

[InfestedKerrigan]

 

[InfestedKerrigan]

[AscentStudios]

So, to all the defenders of the Y-Wing, I have to make a (small) apology - I have found a rather nasty use for one in combination with some Wave 4 releases...

 

99/100 "Stun and Shank"

 

Dutch Y-Wing with R7-T1 & Ion Turret

2 x Dagger Squadron B-Wing with Advanced Sensors & Heavy Laser Cannon

 

This is R7-T1 btw:

 

 

It's a little slow, but essentially what happens in round 2-3 is that Dutch gets into range to start using R7 and his ion turret - basically, letting him drop a target lock, pass another to a B-wing, then GTFO from their shooting arc while still dishing out stunny doom. The Daggers, courtesy of Advanced Sensors, are able to avoid the problem of much Red on their dial to pull focus, then the TL from Dutch to just lay waste to their preferred target with 4 dice at any range. The list takes some skill to keep in formation, and you ain't gonna dodge much with any of these ships, but you can lay some serious hurt/one-shots especially vs. TIE Swarms and low AG ships.

[smashthedean]

Just a heads up guys, I'm going to be running a 100 point X-Wing tournament at Dark Tower Games in Bellingham on Saturday, March 29th. It's just going to be an easy $5 entry fee with prize support and hopefully lots of fun! It'll be starting around noon with three 90 minute rounds and breaks/lunches in between so it shouldn't go very late into the evening at all and would make a pretty easy day trip for any BC or Seattle area people looking to get some games in. Hope to see some people there!

[intrizic]

Just a heads up guys, I'm going to be running a 100 point X-Wing tournament at Dark Tower Games in Bellingham on Saturday, March 29th. It's just going to be an easy $5 entry fee with prize support and hopefully lots of fun! It'll be starting around noon with three 90 minute rounds and breaks/lunches in between so it shouldn't go very late into the evening at all and would make a pretty easy day trip for any BC or Seattle area people looking to get some games in. Hope to see some people there!

FTFY

http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/20828-x-wing-tournament-in-bellingham-wa-at-dtg-3-29-14/

[smashthedean]

Oh man...

And the article is up. Lots of interesting stuff in here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4705

[AscentStudios]

Rebel Aces looks to be an even bigger tilt in the direction away from swarms and towards the Rebels (the first being making Astromechs so much better in upcoming expansions and giving the big ships to the Rebel side exclusively):

 

* A -2 pt upgrade for A-Wings that comes of the cost of your missile slot (oh noes!)

* A 0 pt title upgrade for A-Wings that gives you a free EPS (making A-Wings the only ship - including Darth-Fricking-Vader - that can have more than one EPS)

* A B-Wing that can spend Stress in the same way as Focus when attacking (gee whiz, so much for a red-filled dial...)

* A keen eyed buddy thinks both B-Wing titles allow the B to take Crew upgrades...sick!

 

This set looks totally rad, but it makes me a little sad, as it feels the Rebels have a lot of really great builds with tons of synergy, and the Imperials have Swarm and gimmicky builds (like the triple Bounty Hunter) without a lot of synergy in the lists. Imperial Aces looks just sad compared to Rebel Aces in terms of what it brings to the table.

[smashthedean]

I think that from what we've seen so far, you're right that the metagame is shifting in the Rebels' direction, but I would argue that we haven't seen everything yet. We still have the Wave 4 ships to find out about and there will likely be other releases coming out in Q3 alongside the Rebel Aces. I'm hoping we get either an Imperial Aces II or an Imperial big ship with a TIE Advanced included for some buffs. If anything, this release gets me excited as an Imperial player because it tells me that the FFG people are thinking about ways to get weaker ships off the shelves and onto the table by buffing them up rather than just ignoring them and moving on.

[andozane]

Poor Tie Advanced :(

[smashthedean]

Poor Tie Advanced :(

 

If the TIE Advanced has a refit card like the A-Wing just got for -2 points and a Title Card to give System Upgrades, I would field one in nearly every list I made.

[Dark Trainer]

I'm hoping the defender is similar to the B-wing. Since it's only of the few Ties that has deflector shields, etc. I would like to see some more imperials with less finesse to open up diversity.

[shmitty]

The new Rebels series features a bad guy riding around in a TIE Advanced and a Gozanti Cruiser, which is about the size of a Corellian Corvette. I bet we see that release this fall, with a title card to fix the TIE Advanced. Either with a point reduction or a systems upgrade.

[smashthedean]

I'm hoping the defender is similar to the B-wing. Since it's only of the few Ties that has deflector shields, etc. I would like to see some more imperials with less finesse to open up diversity.

 

The Defender just seems to expensive, I'm worried about how it will fit into lists, but hopefully the dial will be so incredible that it will work out.

[Dark Trainer]

I agree, just saying I'd like to see more durable beefy ships than always relying on horde or finesse imperials. Here's to wishing....

[andozane]

If the TIE Advanced has a refit card like the A-Wing just got for -2 points and a Title Card to give System Upgrades, I would field one in nearly every list I made.

 

Yeah, that A-Wing card is amazing.  Sad we won't see it until...October?  But still an awesome card.

 

Tie Advanced definitely need something exactly like that to see the field again.

[AscentStudios]

If the TIE Advanced has a refit card like the A-Wing just got for -2 points and a Title Card to give System Upgrades, I would field one in nearly every list I made.

Me too. I had a lot of fun running a PS 9 Vader, Fel, Phenner + Veteran Instincts list yesterday - managed to take out Wedge in turn 2 with a little luck and a concussion missile from Vader. The Advanced *really* needs some retrofitting - its problems are worse than its point cost, though, since its dial is seriously underwhelming (less maneuverable than a regular TIE IIRC), it has weak upgrades, and it simply doesn't have enough firepower to make it good without a missile.

 

I would kill for a Advanced title that granted systems. Vader got in a traffic jam in a big game yesterday and lost both actions for 4-5 turns due to bumping lower pilots, which just completely took him out of the fight...Advanced Sensors would have gotten me out of that mess in a jiffy. But even a title that granted you an additional EPS, just like the prototype A-Wing title, seems a no-brainer now, as does a modification upgrade or title that allowed you to add an extra Attack die. Honestly, though, just giving Vader a different ride like they're doing with Maarek Steele (he's one of the titled Defender pilots) would be the best. If Vader could just fly an Interceptor...

[smashthedean]

I liked the idea of having a missile upgrade that gives +1 attack die. Wouldn't even have to make it 0 cost (though I wouldn't complain). At 2 points you'd have a PS2 3/3/2/3 ship for 23 points that would be pretty attractive and Vader at 31 would be worth the cost while making him into the badass top-tier threat he is meant to be.

[InfestedKerrigan]

[Munkie]

I especially like Tarn Mison as an alternative to Red Squad. One less piloting skill isn't a huge deal because he's still ahead of all basic level pilots. And his target lock reaction is awesome! He can use it to sucker punch higher PS ships in his arc that fail to kill him. And against lower level pilots, he can use it to set up next turn. Pretty cool since he can just re-acquire the target lock for each ship that takes a shot at him, so he can lock the most favorable ship.

 

Porkins looks fun too. As the website mentions, he'd be great with R5-D8 to potentially repair his reckless damage. It'd be so fun to do a K-Turn right behind someone, shed the stress and sock 'em with 4 dice in the back. Good pilot for Push The Limit (who isn't?) too. Target lock and focus to get stressed, drop it, next turn repair (if necessary). He just looks like fun to play.

 

The other two, I'm not sure about. For the same cost as Wedge but -1 PS, Wes Janson's ability should trigger before he fires, not after. And Hobbie just seems like he'll slip through the cracks. He's 1 point less than Porkins, but -2 PS, and his ability is very similar in purpose but requires 2 turns to pull off. It would be a much better ability on a ship that actually had red maneuvers like a B-Wing or Y-Wing.

[AscentStudios]

I especially like Tarn Mison as an alternative to Red Squad. One less piloting skill isn't a huge deal because he's still ahead of all basic level pilots. And his target lock reaction is awesome! He can use it to sucker punch higher PS ships in his arc that fail to kill him. And against lower level pilots, he can use it to set up next turn. Pretty cool since he can just re-acquire the target lock for each ship that takes a shot at him, so he can lock the most favorable ship.

I agree - it's pretty sweet to have a named, low-PS pilot. I think Tarn is actually the lowest named pilot in the game.

 

Porkins looks fun too. As the website mentions, he'd be great with R5-D8 to potentially repair his reckless damage. It'd be so fun to do a K-Turn right behind someone, shed the stress and sock 'em with 4 dice in the back. Good pilot for Push The Limit (who isn't?) too. Target lock and focus to get stressed, drop it, next turn repair (if necessary). He just looks like fun to play.

When I was working on my Porkins repaint, I repainted his astromech to match the one he used in the movie. Guess what his Astromech looks like? R5-D8. That's some well-played planning right there, FFG *slow clap*

 

The other two, I'm not sure about. For the same cost as Wedge but -1 PS, Wes Janson's ability should trigger before he fires, not after. And Hobbie just seems like he'll slip through the cracks. He's 1 point less than Porkins, but -2 PS, and his ability is very similar in purpose but requires 2 turns to pull off. It would be a much better ability on a ship that actually had red maneuvers like a B-Wing or Y-Wing.

I think Janson would be broke as hell if his ability went off before his attack, as it would give him carte blanche to essentially cancel another pilot's action - and everyone knows that negation is simply unfun. Remember that Rebels are all about teamwork; they set each other up well, doing things like passing focus, target locks, and all that other good stuff around from ship to ship. Janson I think is great, as he's high enough PS to set up an imperial target on a silver platter for nearly any rebel pilot save Wedge or Han...

 

Hobbie is made for the new 1 pt Astromech that gives out an Elite slot - give him Push the Limit, Expert Handling, or Daredevil making for a crazy maneuverable X-Wing, and then let him blow a TL to dump the stress in the same turn. In fact, Hobbie is a pro abuser of PTL, as he can just Focus, PTL to Target Lock, gain stress, then blow the target lock in the combat phase to dump the stress. Even better, put him on a squad with Dutch (who only has +1 PS over him...almost like they planned it!) to really abuse his ability.

[dashneeb]

How the hell does Porkin's have a 7 pilot rating?  Did they even watch the movie?

[Burk]

How the hell does Porkin's have a 7 pilot rating?  Did they even watch the movie?

porkins was supposed to have a much bigger role in the movie.  however he had a heart attack during filming and died....apparently he couldn't "hold it"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHlp2vMyknQ

[Munkie]

I think Janson would be broke as hell if his ability went off before his attack, as it would give him carte blanche to essentially cancel another pilot's action - and everyone knows that negation is simply unfun. Remember that Rebels are all about teamwork; they set each other up well, doing things like passing focus, target locks, and all that other good stuff around from ship to ship. Janson I think is great, as he's high enough PS to set up an imperial target on a silver platter for nearly any rebel pilot save Wedge or Han...

 

Hobbie is made for the new 1 pt Astromech that gives out an Elite slot - give him Push the Limit, Expert Handling, or Daredevil making for a crazy maneuverable X-Wing, and then let him blow a TL to dump the stress in the same turn. In fact, Hobbie is a pro abuser of PTL, as he can just Focus, PTL to Target Lock, gain stress, then blow the target lock in the combat phase to dump the stress. Even better, put him on a squad with Dutch (who only has +1 PS over him...almost like they planned it!) to really abuse his ability.

 

I'm certainly open to being convinced otherwise but I'm just not impressed be either one for their points. Wes' ability is cool and all, but if I'm paying Wedge prices, I want someone who can cause damage on his own, not relying on a second ship to finish them off. That's fine in the opening salvos of the game when you can most effectively focus fire, but when it breaks down you want someone who can get the job done by himself.

 

My problem with Hobbie is similar. He requires way too much coordination to pull off. You put R2-D6 in his x-wing and now he costs as much as Porkins for 2 less PS and an ability that is identical in function, but way harder to use. Sure we can spend even more points so he can actually use his ability effectively, but now he's competing with Wedge and other high-quality pilots. Baby-sitting with Dutch would be even harder to use because Hobbie goes first and his only red manuever is a 4K which takes him out of Dutch's range more often than not. I'd rather just buy Porkins and have an ability that is guaranteed to work, requires no babysitting, and no coordination. It just happens.

 

Or for 26 points I could get the new A-Wing pilot Jake Farrell w/ A-Wing test pilot, Push the Limit, Adrenaline Rush, and a Chardaan Refit. He can pull a 3/5k behind the enemy, call it a white manuever, focus to barrel-roll or boost into position, then target lock and put 3 very reliable dice into someone's rump. Much more useable character for 3 points cheaper than the build you're suggesting with Hobbie.

 

I don't think Wes and Hobbie are bad, but I think they will be over-shadowed by similarly priced ships.

[AscentStudios]

I'm certainly open to being convinced otherwise but I'm just not impressed be either one for their points. Wes' ability is cool and all, but if I'm paying Wedge prices, I want someone who can cause damage on his own, not relying on a second ship to finish them off. That's fine in the opening salvos of the game when you can most effectively focus fire, but when it breaks down you want someone who can get the job done by himself.

I guess that's where you and I differ on this point - I think any one pilot rarely "gets it done by himself" in this game. There's plenty of good reasons to run each pilot with a wingman, rather than on their own for both offensive and defensive reasons. Wedge has been the only pilot I've flow who I can reliably say has one-shotted enemies - with almost everyone else, it takes concentration of fire from 2-3 ships to really get the job done when you need to. Just too many variables otherwise. Based on my "basement meta" the X-Wing's toughness tends to see it out into the mid-late game, where its strong offense really starts to become more influential regardless of who's behind the stick. When it's my A-Wings that last until the late game, it's a much tougher fight as they simply don't have the firepower to finish many ships off in a duel.

 

Baby-sitting with Dutch would be even harder to use because Hobbie goes first and his only red manuever is a 4K which takes him out of Dutch's range more often than not. I'd rather just buy Porkins and have an ability that is guaranteed to work, requires no babysitting, and no coordination. It just happens.

My point with Hobbie wasn't that you need to be doing red maneuvers - Push the Limit, Expert Handling and Daredevil all give you "free" stress which Dutch can help you strip fairly easily (pretty fast, range 1-2 on his ability) with a little planning or the right wingmen. I'm not saying it's an amazing combo, but I guess I'm less point-sensitive in this game than most, particularly with Rebels who almost always have a small handful of points sitting around to be used to upgrade pilots when all's said and done. To each his own.

 

Or for 26 points I could get the new A-Wing pilot Jake Farrell w/ A-Wing test pilot, Push the Limit, Adrenaline Rush, and a Chardaan Refit. He can pull a 3/5k behind the enemy, call it a white manuever, focus to barrel-roll or boost into position, then target lock and put 3 very reliable dice into someone's rump. Much more useable character for 3 points cheaper than the build you're suggesting with Hobbie.

That's a good combo, but a) that's a 1/game trick, and b) that's a heckuva lot of work to get a 3 die shot on someone. I dig A-Wings for a lot of reasons, but their strong offensive capability is not one of them :) Hobbie, or any other X-Wing pilot, can dish 3 damage at any range, can endure one more hit in the process, and can take the Astromech upgrade (the winner for my own personal Most Improved X-Wing Upgrade Slot 2014 so far with Wave 4 and the Rebel Transport available). Obviously, I can't say which is better until we get our hot little hands on these new guys, but I'm game to try putting my money where my mouth is and let you know if any of these ideas actually work :)

 

I don't think Wes and Hobbie are bad, but I think they will be over-shadowed by similarly priced ships.

I'll give you that their price may be an issue...but I think in this game, unlike say 40k, the price:effect calculation is not quite as straightforward, with a few exceptions (Dagger Squadron B-Wings being one, which I think are actually underpriced vs. comparable PS X-Wings).

 

As a somewhat tangential point: Reflecting recently a bit on how to make a better Imperial list, I got to thinking that it may be that point efficiency is vital to Imperial lists, which tend to be light on Elite pilots and don't have many team players (all team effects tend to be passive), whereas in Rebels team efficiency is more vital as the interplay of abilities leads to some great force multiplier moments. For instance, I found last night that running a PS6 Black TIE w/ Vet Instinct plus RG Interceptor w/ PTL + Howlrunner was simply not as effective as dropping the mean PS to 4, dropping Vet Instincts on the Blacks, dropping the RGs to Sabres, and putting a Stealth Device on Howlrunner and Draw Their Fire on a Black instead. There's simply not enough to be gained by PS of more than 4 in most games where your or your opponent is flying generic pilots, and not enough teamwork in Imperials to make a squad where a combination of named pilot abilities is worth building a squad around; concepts, yes (I want to try a "point blank TIE Ace + Jax Interceptor" list soon), but not teams. In Rebels, however, I'll happily run named pilots as I think there are plenty of reasons to try and squeeze multiple named pilots, as they can definitely build upon each other and become a something more...even if it's not points-efficient.