Imperial Guard Platoon Command

[ChaosGerbil]

Why take creed and a PCS, when you can take two CCS for about the same price? All you really want are BS4 meltaguns (or plasma) with rerolls, the fists won't do much for the points. Commy Blobs are much better for CC.

 

PCS' are good for spamming flamers out of a chimera top, for about 100 points it has some decent threat and still scores.

[Lord Hanaur]

Because For the Honor of Cadia.

[Guest]

Why take creed and a PCS, when you can take two CCS for about the same price? All you really want are BS4 meltaguns (or plasma) with rerolls, the fists won't do much for the points. Commy Blobs are much better for CC.

 

PCS' are good for spamming flamers out of a chimera top, for about 100 points it has some decent threat and still scores.

Well, if IG aren't primary, then only one HQ slot. Creed has that scout bonus for one unit too. He also has a pretty impressive command radius. And, as mentioned, you might want the fearless+FC order that creed uniquely has.

 

I don't run him, but those are the obvious reasons I see. I think he's too expensive, but I also tend to cheap out on my IG HQ units.

 

Oh, and the unit isn't scoring while inside the chimera. They have to get out...

[ChaosGerbil]

They have to get out, which is why I'd only rather pay 9 points a model or so for flamer dudes or 4 for melta. Costs are higher for vets and ccs but worth it on the meltas and plasmas at least. I'll have to try grenade launcher vets, then again for anti-air it wouldn't matter. Str 6 is a good place to be for putting wounds on a lot of flying MCs.

 

I haven't run Creed myself, I'd rather get my outflanking with Al'Rahem. I hope IG gets more deployment tricks and options in the next book.

 

What if you picked 2-3 major orders before each battle depending on what kind of HQ you had, that would each give a bonus of some sort? From army wide USRs to "one unit gets rule X", that could be fun.

[Lord Hanaur]

 

Oh, and the unit isn't scoring while inside the chimera. They have to get out...

Eventually...sure.

[Lord Hanaur]

 

I haven't run Creed myself, I'd rather get my outflanking with Al'Rahem. I hope IG gets more deployment tricks and options in the next book.

 

What if you picked 2-3 major orders before each battle depending on what kind of HQ you had, that would each give a bonus of some sort? From army wide USRs to "one unit gets rule X", that could be fun.

Why choose?  You cam do both Al Raheem and Creed. 

 

Creed is absolutely great right now.  I really love using him.  I am a far more...utilitarian General.  finding synergies and timing my attack is what I do.  So a guy like Creed appeals because he magnifies the strengths of the army itself and does allow them the freedom to do their best work.  Rarely do you have a "Bad" round when he's on the job, even if you might have bland ones.

 

As far as Platoon Command groups are concerned though, I am hard pressed to find an answer to getting tied up too long in the guard that doesn't involve just shooting something!  My initial thought was, you might only need it once every three games, but there WILL come a game when you wish you could just hold the line ONE more round so to move and run to an objective for example with other units.

 

A new codex may totally solve the conundrum.  Or not.

[Lord Hanaur]

Kay so I made some changes.  The platoon commands at this time are shooty.  I am not yet able to figure out how best to deploy the platoom commands that would be punchy.  but Creed does allow a scout move, so that's food for thought.

 

1 Manticore Rocket Launcher + Heavy Flamer

 

1 Hydra Flak Tank +  1 Hunter Killer Missile + Heavy Bolter +1 Pintle Mounted Stubber

 

1 Hydra Flak Tank +  1 Hunter Killer Missile + Heavy Bolter +1 Pintle Mounted Stubber

 

1st Infantry Platoon

      4 Platoon Command Squad + Meltagun x4

         1 Platoon Commander

 

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon 20)

         1 Commissar+ Power Weapon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

            1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

 

2nd Infantry Platoon

      4 Platoon Command Squad+ Meltagun x4

         1 Platoon Commander

 

      7 Infantry Squad+ Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon 20)

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad+ Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon 20)

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad+ Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon 20)

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

 

1 Guardsman Marbo

 

6 Sanctioned Psykers

      1 Overseer

 

6 Sanctioned Psykers

      1 Overseer

 

4 Company Command Squad Veterans+ Carapace Armour

      1 Lord Castellan Creed + Grenade Launcher x1

      1 Chimera+ Multi Laser and Heavy Flamer + 1 Hunter-killer Missile

 

1 Inquisitor Coteaz

 

1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron

      1 Vendetta+ Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2

 

1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron

      1 Vendetta+ Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2

 

Models: 108

Kill Points:  15-20

Heavy: 3

Troops: 4-9

Elites: 3

HQ: 2

Fast: 2

[Guest]

Which power weapons for the infantry squads?

 

Let's see...a single unit equipped with a weapon to deny cover saves...

 

Hydras seem too expensive. Why HK missiles on the hydras? Only the hydra main weapons have skyfire, so your snapping the HK. I suppose if wanting to aim and ground targets, but seems like an inflated cost. Seems like you could just buy a chimera for pretty close to the cost of the upgrades on those hydras. An autocannon sentinel could also work instead of those upgrades.

 

As for the guard blobs, they look too expensive. They also lack commissars, so more vulnerable to morale. I see creed and coteaz, so you could make one stubborn ld 10 and order the other to be fearless, but I still don't like the idea of a 30-man squad fleeing to something like that infiltrating genestealer psychic attack option (brood lord psychic ability).

 

Dunno, might be fine. Depends how the opponent can go about your destruction. I do think that a direct army, one that attacks all from one side, would have a good deal of troubles with this one.

 

Oh, one I've heard is that creed's ability to make units scout, doesn't apply for outflanking. I don't know this one for sure, but it was explained as not taking effect until deployment so it didn't count for outflanking. I would be interested to know either way on this one.

[WestRider]

Hydras, I would guess have the H-Ks for Skimmers, especially Wave Serpents. The way the Hydra Special Rule is worded, they deny Jink Saves with all their Weapons, which makes them particularly dangerous to Skimmers.

 

The big Blob does have a Commissar. I assume he's relying on Creed's Order to keep the other in line. Also, the Broodlord's power forces a Pinning Test, not a Morale Test. Can't make anyone run away.

[Lord Hanaur]

Look closer. There is a commissar for one unit, and Coteaz for the other. Coteaz generally doesn't need divination because of Creeds orders. He can make four units fearless every round or EFFECTIVELY give a version of prescience to several units depending on the situation. So Biomancy has proven somewhat useful, or a combo of both.

 

As for the hydras, their usefulness against non flying lists can dramatically be better by killing a rhino or whatever.

 

It is a risk to take hydras at all. I am hedging my bet. There are power lists out there that require serious anti air. Sadly my list will be capable. However I need a way to make sure the unit can function when that isn't the case.

[Guest]

Look closer. There is a commissar for one unit, and Coteaz for the other. Coteaz generally doesn't need divination because of Creeds orders. He can make four units fearless every round or EFFECTIVELY give a version of prescience to several units depending on the situation. So Biomancy has proven somewhat useful, or a combo of both.

 

 

1st Infantry Platoon

      4 Platoon Command Squad + Meltagun x4

         1 Platoon Commander

 

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

         1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon 20)

         1 Commissar+ Power Weapon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

      7 Infantry Squad +Grenade Launcher x1

            1 Heavy Weapons Team+ Lascannon

         1 Sergeant+ Melta Bombs + Power Weapon

 

Don't know how I missed it. ..only in the lower section of the 3rd of 4 otherwise identical squads.

 

 

As for the hydras, their usefulness against non flying lists can dramatically be better by killing a rhino or whatever.

 

It is a risk to take hydras at all. I am hedging my bet. There are power lists out there that require serious anti air. Sadly my list will be capable. However I need a way to make sure the unit can function when that isn't the case.

I can see that argument. Let me know the results.

 

My IG take hull heavy flamers on just about every vehicle. They really mess with assault units, especially the non-marine ones. Those work pretty good on hydras, plus they double up anti-cover on the jinking enemy units.

 

My hydras see mixed results. Typically I forgo the hydras in favor of other HS slot units. I miss the hydras when I don't bring them and regret them when I have them...One of those units.

[Lord Hanaur]

Yes they ARE "one of those units".  I agree completely.

 

The thing is, when they aren't AS useful, it's okay because the army in GENERAL copes well with the stuff that doesn't fly.  Ground pounders will never be a significant source of worry for this force.  Probably ever.  We can take the hits and we can soften the blows ahead of contact.

 

But the flyer and skimmer spam forces will always be at minimum a concern for this army due to the volume of fire they produce, which my list hates incredibly, and the durability of those platforms that can pound us.

 

As long as Hydras put me on EVEN ground (at least) against any force i face, then I'm okay with an inexpensive pair of "maybe maybe nots".  I have a kncack for finding a use for things.  But a list that has no answer for X is in trouble at tourney.  Even if its great against everything else, there must BE no X factors that you simply cant handle.   I have seen in my last two test games that such "hard counters" did exist for me without the Hydras.  I suppose one hopes not to have to face lists like that too often, but one can't ignore the possibility.  Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

 

 

Twin linking the Lascannons against flyers proved to be insufficient against an overload of them,

 

Also, a platoon Command squad that could melee would have been nice because those Daemons hit hard in combat but they don't have unlimited wounds and if I can just tag one for two wounds before I ground and pound there's a good chance I can end one.  It makes me really want to try this Platoon command idea against such a force.  Even though I ultimately lose the Platoon command in the following shooting phase, it protects an entire blob for a round against what could have been two Daemons charging THEM.  If only one can get there or dares, then the blob itself has a fighting chance.

 

BTW, refusing a challenge against things with tons of attacks doesn't work very well.  Precision hits are a B****.  Lol.  He used precision hits to snake my Overseers, which popped my Psyker Squads due to their special rules even though they were made fearless.  whuuuuu.  Good lesson though.  Something to think about with those Psyker battle Squads. 

[Guest]

Twin linking the Lascannons against flyers proved to be insufficient against an overload of them,

 

Also, a platoon Command squad that could melee would have been nice because those Daemons hit hard in combat but they don't have unlimited wounds and if I can just tag one for two wounds before I ground and pound there's a good chance I can end one.  It makes me really want to try this Platoon command idea against such a force.  Even though I ultimately lose the Platoon command in the following shooting phase, it protects an entire blob for a round against what could have been two Daemons charging THEM.  If only one can get there or dares, then the blob itself has a fighting chance.

 

BTW, refusing a challenge against things with tons of attacks doesn't work very well.  Precision hits are a B****.  Lol.  He used precision hits to snake my Overseers, which popped my Psyker Squads due to their special rules even though they were made fearless.  whuuuuu.  Good lesson though.  Something to think about with those Psyker battle Squads. 

I've found TL lascannons to be rather lacking if forced to snapfire - totally agree with you.

 

For a melee "command squad," look into INQ henchmen or an additional INQ for that unit. Transportation is certainly an issue, but you can still building them together.

 

I will note that those daemons are often characters too. This means they tie you up until all your characters are singled out and are dead. Daemon players are often too impatient to try this route, but against a stubborn and fearless IG blob with lots of power weapons, this really is the correct route. Very worry some, if you ever face it, is that slaanesh can force models to accept challenges (heralds with that loci, I think).

 

Speaking of buildings, look into that SA imperial bunker. It's like a 40pt pill box (av14 and small enough to hide out of TLOS if needed). Psykers would do very nicely in there. In general, I keep my psychic battle squads in vehicles if I field them. They just are too fragile - for cost, they are fine, but they really add value to my army and really get targeted by the enemy. I put mine in chimeras, but I'd consider replacing the chimera with the imperial bunker if I had that model and wasn't already fielding a fortification.

[Lord Hanaur]

We are pretty anti-Stronghold round here.  So i probably wouldn't go that route.  A Chimera is how i normally see them fielded but i am stretched pretty thin on points.  What could happen in the end analysis is I COULD drop a Psyker Battle Squad at some point in the future.  I haven't played enough games to get a feel for them.  Against the Demons, i was useless (though they did shoot and assault minor daemons with at least "okay" results since there was no overwatch with Horrors).

 

Against the Deldar I faced (basically a Psykerstar with the Baron and some troops and artillery a WraithKnight etc...) I didn't get a very good chance to use them due to terrain, but definitely would have gotten a chance later in the game, but we got forced to curt the game short.

 

I played against a Tyranid and did fine, but there again, the Psykers were of limited use.  So having ONE might actually be enough.  Too early to tell still.

 

if I did, I could afford my beefomatic Platoon Command Squad I think!  

 

For those meeting at the Game Matrix in Tacoma on the 22nd for FlugerPalooza (we are moving it there because Fluger had some stuff come up) you might get to see this army as i try to kind of work on it.

[WestRider]

The problem with putting them in a Vehicle/Building is that you then can't use Weaken Resolve, since you can only use Witchfires and powers that don't require LoS from inside a Transport.

[Guest]

I did the points for the list. I count 1965pts which assumes the psyker squads are 6 total members, rather than 6+1 (list is a bit unclear).

 

The problem with putting them in a Vehicle/Building is that you then can't use Weaken Resolve, since you can only use Witchfires and powers that don't require LoS from inside a Transport.

Why isn't it a witchfire power? It is an unconventional power by 6th standards, but that's more due to a lack of GW support in FAQs than an issue with the power. The BRB really doesn't cover this type of power, but it does specify what kind of powers exist...

 

Anyway, I was thinking more like putting them in the top of the bastion. Remember, the point is to give them better TLOS with the bastion.

 

As for protection, both the bastion and the imperial bunker have battlements. Deploy the unit inside, disembark to the battlements on your turn 1, now at the start of your shooting phase, you are in the clear top, with considerably better TLOS for distant combats. If the enemy is too close to see from the top, disembark to the ground or stay inside and weather the storm.

[WestRider]

It's not a Witchfire because it isn't described as a Psychic Shooting Attack and doesn't replace the Unit's Shooting Attack. You can use Weaken Resolve and then shoot their Pistols, for instance, or, more usefully, use Weaken Resolve and then Run back out of LoS. Contrast with the description of their Soulstorm power, which is keyworded as a Psychic Shooting Attack.

[Guest]

It's not a Witchfire because it isn't described as a Psychic Shooting Attack and doesn't replace the Unit's Shooting Attack. You can use Weaken Resolve and then shoot their Pistols, for instance, or, more usefully, use Weaken Resolve and then Run back out of LoS. Contrast with the description of their Soulstorm power, which is keyworded as a Psychic Shooting Attack.

Huh....overlooked some potential in this one. I bet they'll make this one conform to the BRB if they keep it in the next codex.

[WestRider]

Oh, yeah, if it sticks around, it's getting overhauled. Probably as a Malediction.

[Guest]

Oh, yeah, if it sticks around, it's getting overhauled. Probably as a Malediction.

Well, pretty sure the battle squads are sticking around. We'll probably get 1 battle squad only power, and then maybe a roll on one of the BRB tables, not unlike the zoans.

[WestRider]

Oh, I'm certain the PBS will stick around. I just don't know if Weaken Resolve will stick around, or if they'll get some other power, or a roll on Telepathy, or what.

[Lord Hanaur]

The rules are particular to them. The power just happens in the shooting phase. Its not malediction. Its not anything but its own thing.

[ChaosGerbil]

It should be a malediction, according to common sense. I'd prefer that over it being treated as a special snowflake power.  It is clearly a "debuff" which is what maledictions cover.

 

As for your list, you are overloaded on power weapons. If you dropped five power weapons and MBs that's 75 pts, enough for a Griffon heavy mortar or another Hydra. Flyer armies will try to focus fire on Hydras so I would put the third in its own slot.

[Guest]

It should be a malediction, according to common sense. I'd prefer that over it being treated as a special snowflake power.  It is clearly a "debuff" which is what maledictions cover.

 

As for your list, you are overloaded on power weapons. If you dropped five power weapons and MBs that's 75 pts, enough for a Griffon heavy mortar or another Hydra. Flyer armies will try to focus fire on Hydras so I would put the third in its own slot.

He's overloaded on lots of things, kinda figured that was the theme. Those lascannons aren't exactly cheap.

 

As for the psychic power, honestly, I think even as a grey area power, it can still become one of the types in the BRB. Have you looked at Obsurjuration mechanicum? It's a malediction that inflicts haywire hits on vehicles, as sort of a movement phase shooting attack.

[Lord Hanaur]

It should be a malediction, according to common sense. I'd prefer that over it being treated as a special snowflake power.  It is clearly a "debuff" which is what maledictions cover.

 

As for your list, you are overloaded on power weapons. If you dropped five power weapons and MBs that's 75 pts, enough for a Griffon heavy mortar or another Hydra. Flyer armies will try to focus fire on Hydras so I would put the third in its own slot.

As for what the power ought to be, it hardly matters.  The rules are clear on it and im not OCD enough to care about trying to fit it perfectly into those categories, although we know they will when the new book comes out.

 

As for overloaded on things, I might say I am...prepared.  Having 4 anti-air units is actually quite a lot. Having that many Twin linked anti-vehicle units is quite a lot.  Having that many power weapons to deal with a charge, our weakness for sure, is quite a lot.  Can't disagree.  LD is rock solid and the reach out and touch someone factor ain't too shabby either with the Vendettas who can drop a little care package off for someone and kinda lets me do the whole Eldar Jetbike move if the flyers srvive.  All I can do is disallow the enemy from having an overwhelming advantage at any one point.  That's kind of what the list does best:  avoids mismatches. 

 

It isn't a thundrous killing machine like Imperial Knights, but it will let you know you've been in a worthy fight.  There will be wreckage and bodies aplenty.