Imperial Guard Platoon Command

[Guest]

As for what the power ought to be, it hardly matters.  The rules are clear on it and im not OCD enough to care about trying to fit it perfectly into those categories, although we know they will when the new book comes out.

 

As for overloaded on things, I might say I am...prepared.  Having 4 anti-air units is actually quite a lot. Having that many Twin linked anti-vehicle units is quite a lot.  Having that many power weapons to deal with a charge, our weakness for sure, is quite a lot.  Can't disagree.  LD is rock solid and the reach out and touch someone factor ain't too shabby either with the Vendettas who can drop a little care package off for someone and kinda lets me do the whole Eldar Jetbike move if the flyers srvive.  All I can do is disallow the enemy from having an overwhelming advantage at any one point.  That's kind of what the list does best:  avoids mismatches. 

 

It isn't a thundrous killing machine like Imperial Knights, but it will let you know you've been in a worthy fight.  There will be wreckage and bodies aplenty.

The one issue I see is that your likely going to be combining the IG platoons. This means that against FMCs, you'll have a limited number of shooting attacks that can cause grounding tests without impairing the rest of the army. So, in example, 6x daemon FMCs (CSM allies or double FOC for 6th one). Turn 1 you have maybe 3 units that can cause grounding tests without forcing the entire platoon to target a single enemy in the air. Turn 2+ may have better odds, but turn 2+ is likely in charge range of FMCs.

Also, if they move too close, you won't be able to target them with the manticores should they ground, as you can't target your own units, so some moving may be forced.

 

In personal experience, those hydras are really fail-tastic against FMCs with 3+ armor. Likely, you'll be forced to engage FMCs with an entire platoon. Even if they arrive very close to you, looking at low odds to kill with any weapons save the lascannons. Those lascannons, while not weak weapons, is at most 5 lascannons in a single unit shooting at BS1. Between prescience and orders, you might kill one, but that's an entire platoon's shooting. Even if you kill 3 of them turn 1, you'd probably still get wiped by those that survive.

 

In this respect, the power weapons are a good call. That said, you'd have to refuse challenges to get decent results in melee, and even that depends on the daemons not rolling the 4+ FNP or an improved invulnerable save. It also depends if the daemon player can force you to overwatch a different unit or if they roll good psychic powers.

 

This is still all theory hammer. It depends how the daemon player plays his daemons more than anything. That army is pretty random too. Still, probably a good challenge even if you lose, for both players.

[Lord Hanaur]

You're dead on on most of what you said.  My last two games were against Daemon Prince lists.  Both were losses.  5 Princes of some sort or other and a Heldrake actually.

 

It is a brutal list and it did all of what you just said for the most part.  My blobs never actually got tangled up with the Daemons because they were afraid of the power weapons and For the Honor of Cadia.  Their advantage from the skies was just too great to muck about in the mud with us.  So he used as much shooting as he could...and it was a metric TON of Flickering Fire shots.  when you can hit an army of IG with 5-9D6 ULTRA accurate AP 4 shots...  game over.  Add to that another 4D6 regular such shots and it is a LOAD of pain.  

 

I did very well against it DESPITE that gut check.  I was able to down one of the pain givers but of course the one I could not was blistering me and pretty much did a lions share of the damage.  And 2+ saves with re-rolls or whatever makes shooting the thing down quite the undertaking.  Only LOTS of high STR shots are going to matter and so even though the Hydras wont actually KILL very many, I dont need that.  I just need reliable ways to hit them so they are forces to m,ake checks and if i nab one by chance it'll be on like donkey kong.  

[ChaosGerbil]

Ally in  Space Wolf Rune Priests and a unit of Grey Hunters with a standard. Take some longfangs or other stuff if you feel like it. Njal is pretty brutal I hear.

[Guest]

You're dead on on most of what you said.  My last two games were against Daemon Prince lists.  Both were losses.  5 Princes of some sort or other and a Heldrake actually.

 

It is a brutal list and it did all of what you just said for the most part.  My blobs never actually got tangled up with the Daemons because they were afraid of the power weapons and For the Honor of Cadia.  Their advantage from the skies was just too great to muck about in the mud with us.  So he used as much shooting as he could...and it was a metric TON of Flickering Fire shots.  when you can hit an army of IG with 5-9D6 ULTRA accurate AP 4 shots...  game over.  Add to that another 4D6 regular such shots and it is a LOAD of pain.  

 

I did very well against it DESPITE that gut check.  I was able to down one of the pain givers but of course the one I could not was blistering me and pretty much did a lions share of the damage.  And 2+ saves with re-rolls or whatever makes shooting the thing down quite the undertaking.  Only LOTS of high STR shots are going to matter and so even though the Hydras wont actually KILL very many, I dont need that.  I just need reliable ways to hit them so they are forces to m,ake checks and if i nab one by chance it'll be on like donkey kong.  

Well, easy solution is not blob up.... Issue there is that it greatly messes with the your army plans. Ratlings, chimeras and sentinels are all good units to force grounding tests - all are cheap units with good range on stock weapons.

 

As for the daemon psychic powers, you could get that 50pt Ordo Heriticus with the Null rod. Not for coteaz's blob, but for the other one. That would be the cheap route. The IG psyker could also work, as that night shroud would be pretty impressive against horrors (while they count as ld10 for psychic tests, the models are ld7 for other leadership tests likenight shroud...).

[Lord Hanaur]

Im not building the army to fight just one army though is the thing.  So whikle I want a fighting chance against the Daemon Circus, I have to keep in mind that they aren't the only army I face.  Battle Psykers for examples are next to useless against Daemon Princes.  However, against a lot of lists, they are very good.  

 

So i am right now loading up on tools, and seeing how it does against different forces.  I think the Daemon prince army got a lot more than he bargained for from me, and I was in the game the whole time.  One thing about that list:  killing his troops or his portaglyph for first blood and then concentrating on troops which are NOt hard to kill in that army, is a good way to make it tough on him.  As much pain as he can bring to me the reality is, you dont always HAVE to play primary objectives against such a force.  You can work towards secondaries.  He nearly lost the first game because of it and in the second game I was taking so much damage from his flickering Fire that I simply had to end that threat to the extent i could.  

 

One thing I thought about:  Daemonic instability. Weaken resolve makes a Daemon very susceptible.  If he loses by 1 in close combat, he may as well have lost by 100 right?

[Guest]

Im not building the army to fight just one army though is the thing.  So whikle I want a fighting chance against the Daemon Circus, I have to keep in mind that they aren't the only army I face.  Battle Psykers for examples are next to useless against Daemon Princes.  However, against a lot of lists, they are very good.  

 

So i am right now loading up on tools, and seeing how it does against different forces.  I think the Daemon prince army got a lot more than he bargained for from me, and I was in the game the whole time.  One thing about that list:  killing his troops or his portaglyph for first blood and then concentrating on troops which are NOt hard to kill in that army, is a good way to make it tough on him.  As much pain as he can bring to me the reality is, you dont always HAVE to play primary objectives against such a force.  You can work towards secondaries.  He nearly lost the first game because of it and in the second game I was taking so much damage from his flickering Fire that I simply had to end that threat to the extent i could.  

 

One thing I thought about:  Daemonic instability. Weaken resolve makes a Daemon very susceptible.  If he loses by 1 in close combat, he may as well have lost by 100 right?

Just thoughts:

 

Consider replacing battle psykers with the henchmen psykers. Loss is 1pt of leadership, overseer, and weaken resolve. Gain is a reliably lower AP and a blast attack which can have a higher strength than the max for the battle psykers. They'd also be scoring, provided you bring coteaz as you have been. In example, with 8x INQ henchmen psykers, you can fire a S10 ap1 large blast. That would certainly be impressive against landed princes (ID them), provided they fail to deny/save it.

 

Weaken resolve is very limited against daemon armies, at least, without an assault unit to force the tests on them. That said, I've had impressive results with telepathy's primaris power combined with weaken resolve - the power denies cover and armor, leaving only invulnerable saves to be taken against an often large number of wounds. They are especially effective against daemons as the army has low leadership as a whole, even if the army has lots of invulnerable saves. Dominate can work well against daemons too.

[ChaosGerbil]

If you want power weapons and are already bringing Coteaz, have you considered DCA henchmen? Assassins have two power weapons each on a better frame than the sergeants. I have mine modeled with mixed weapons, if you want power axes etc. they have to come from the GK book and not the Inquisition e-codex. 15 pts. each is not bad, and you can mix them with 3++ power axe crusaders and cheapo 4 pt guys, even throw in some melta. Leadership is more of an issue but you will win most combats if you make it to assault. You could even run GK primary if you want, since you can still get vehicle squadrons and over 100 guardsmen as IG allies.So, 2 Hydras and 2 Vendettas and 1 PBS could come in as allies, plus your platoons as written. You can have a PBS and the henchmen psykers.

 

The Runepriests are not that situational. Psychic powers are more common than ever. Most of the death stars rely on psychic power buffs or witchfires and as far as I know only the Rune Priests can stop buffs, outside of LD tricks. You can also give them fantastic tools, like making a unit have to treat everything as dangerous and difficult terrain, or removing MCs and characters with Jaws. They also can grant ATSKNF by joining IG squads. If someone wants to witchfire a platoon with a RP, you get the runestaff 4+ dispel and a better deny the witch save, 5+ I think. Weaken resolve would be a good power to use on psykers too.

[WestRider]

If you want power weapons and are already bringing Coteaz, have you considered DCA henchmen? Assassins have two power weapons each on a better frame than the sergeants. I have mine modeled with mixed weapons, if you want power axes etc. they have to come from the GK book and not the Inquisition e-codex. 15 pts. each is not bad, and you can mix them with 3++ power axe crusaders and cheapo 4 pt guys, even throw in some melta. Leadership is more of an issue but you will win most combats if you make it to assault. You could even run GK primary if you want, since you can still get vehicle squadrons and over 100 guardsmen as IG allies.So, 2 Hydras and 2 Vendettas and 1 PBS could come in as allies, plus your platoons as written. You can have a PBS and the henchmen psykers.

 

The Runepriests are not that situational. Psychic powers are more common than ever. Most of the death stars rely on psychic power buffs or witchfires and as far as I know only the Rune Priests can stop buffs, outside of LD tricks. You can also give them fantastic tools, like making a unit have to treat everything as dangerous and difficult terrain, or removing MCs and characters with Jaws. They also can grant ATSKNF by joining IG squads. If someone wants to witchfire a platoon with a RP, you get the runestaff 4+ dispel and a better deny the witch save, 5+ I think. Weaken resolve would be a good power to use on psykers too.

But if you take Coteaz from GK, he can't Join the IG Units or use powers on them, because he's only a Bro as INQ.

 

Also, RunePriests got FAQed so you only get one chance to stop any given power. No stacking the Runic Weapon and the DtW. They're still awesome, tho, and for now you can still use them to sort of Sideboard, by taking situational powers like Jaws or Tempest's Wrath, and just rolling Divination or whatever if you don't get matched against the right Opponent.

[ChaosGerbil]

Coteaz can join a hench squad which need better leadership anyways. I suggest lots of Crusaders for the squad that he is in, like 3-6. If you have the points and the model you can do a Stormraven, which could combo well with vendettas.

 

I recommended 2 Runepriests because taking just one it will get targeted and probably die early, and with two you can put one in each platoon. The ATSKNF is a great enhancement to platoons.

 

I did think Runic and DTW stacked, oh well.

 

I like your sideboard style idea.

[Lord Hanaur]

Ally in  Space Wolf Rune Priests and a unit of Grey Hunters with a standard. Take some longfangs or other stuff if you feel like it. Njal is pretty brutal I hear.

Njal is very mean as the game gets older.  However, you are talking serious points there, and a VERY sharp divergence in the entire army.  cant add 400+ points and keep it all together.  Thats a whole other type of list, probably with Vets in Chimera at that point.

 

And there's no needfor Platoon Command Squads in that army!  Probably not anyways, ones that matter.

 

Right now the Platoon Commands are doing some work.  More work, one can argue, than a Vet squad might, if Creed gives them orders.  And then if we go with my crazy melee version of the unit, they could be doing serious work more reliably before they die.  

 

I do like Njal though.  He's been a pain in my side more times than I like to count.

[Lord Hanaur]

Coteaz can join a hench squad which need better leadership anyways. I suggest lots of Crusaders for the squad that he is in, like 3-6. If you have the points and the model you can do a Stormraven, which could combo well with vendettas.

 

I recommended 2 Runepriests because taking just one it will get targeted and probably die early, and with two you can put one in each platoon. The ATSKNF is a great enhancement to platoons.

 

I did think Runic and DTW stacked, oh well.

 

I like your sideboard style idea.

 

Yeah the idea of henchman has definite merit for the role I was looking to my PCS for.  Indeed it does.  

 

So with Codex Inquisition, I can only take the henchman basically if I understand correctly (I dont actually own the book but Im prettty sure that's right).

 

With Grey Knights, why do I not want them as allies?  Why would they be primary?  Coteaz plus Assassin/other henchmen could be allied in.  I don't have a codex:  Are GK Battle Brothers with IG?  Is Codex Inquisition?  oh to have a codex right now.  But it seems like one Psyker Battle Squad could become the hammer I seek in the form of henchmen, maybe.

[Aventine]

GK are not Battle Brothers with anyone. Inquisitors are.

 

He was saying that one of the few differences between the GK Codex and the =I= Codex is that GK Death Cult henchmen can pick their type of power weapon, whereas =I= Death Cults have Power Swords automatically.

[Guest]

GK are not Battle Brothers with anyone. Inquisitors are.

 

He was saying that one of the few differences between the GK Codex and the =I= Codex is that GK Death Cult henchmen can pick their type of power weapon, whereas =I= Death Cults have Power Swords automatically.

The FW SM chapter (red hunters?) is battle brothers to GK. The INQ codex is battlebrothers to GK. The imperial Knights may also be battle brothers to GK, though I'm unsure on this last one.

 

Codex: INQ also nerfs the psi-shock rule on SR and orbital strike by requiring it to wound the psyker prior to resolving psi-shock. The one in the GK codex merely needs to hit the model, as in, have them under the blast template (specified in the FAQ). Basically makes the psi-shock usefully only against very weak units of just psykers, rather than being amazing (and broken) against IC and MC psykers.

 

I think the wording on the plasma syphon in codex INQ is also less broad, making it only apply to weapons in the BRB "plasma" section. The banisher is completely gone.

[Aventine]

The FW SM chapter (red hunters?) is battle brothers to GK. The INQ codex is battlebrothers to GK. The imperial Knights may also be battle brothers to GK, though I'm unsure on this last one.

 

True enough, I was talking about BRB Ally matrix only; and the Battle Brothers you mentioned are pretty irrelevant to the discussion.

[ChaosGerbil]

Hey it's your list. I enjoy discussing guard and working out list ideas with others.

[Lord Hanaur]

well...my list to be exact.  =)

 

Well I am going to look into these allied options.  I won't lie:  I resist using allies as much as I can unless they are fairly traditional.  Inquisition and Guard are like butter and toast.  So I don't get too worked about that.  But SM and Guard...It takes me a second to get over my bias before I'll start down that road because while they certainly aren't enemies, they never traditionally fought together in company level engagements (though on larger scale ones, in the books, they did a lot...usually with Guard being spattered as background text for the heroics of the Space marines.  Lol.

 

But the henchman thing is intriguing.  I FEEL like an army isn't complete without a hammer...especially in an army known as the Hammer of the Emperor after all!