Sisters of Battle

[peter.cosgrove]

Been looking at Sisters of Battle.

IMO... Pros/cons

You got gunline lists, resiliency lists and what I like to call metabanger lists. Fact is, metabangers almost always lose. When I look at SOB unfortunately all I can see is a brutal metabanging losing list. However if you want to clear out 1-2 20-30 model units and/or take out 1-2 Land Raiders on first turn and gain positional advantage for a lower than average point cost it would be really hard to find something cheaper than SOB.

Dominion Squad/Repressor Synergy.

Dominion squads have Scout which carries to the vehicle they are in, Repressors have 12" movement and 6 firing ports. Before first turn this means the Repressors with DS in transport can move 13-18", them move another 12" first movement phase. DS can take 5 flamers/Melta's in each squad, 2 squads in each Repressor. This means 25" movement range and 33" Flamer/37" Melta threat range (31" double tap). 6 Flamers/2 heavy flamers per Repressor, plus 9 attacks on the charge from the dozer ram (hitting on 5's).

For 224 points you get 1 DS , 5 flamers and 1 repressor, 2 heavy flamers, dozer ram.

353 points, 2 DS, 6 Flamers, 4 Meltas, 1 repressor, 2 heavy flamers, dozer ram.

If you scrap the meltas, go for 3 DS, 2 Repressors and a single HQ, for 3 drops it's 550 points, 11 flamers, 4 heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams, you can even go to 2 drops if you put the HQ into a fortification.

[peter.cosgrove]

SOB Battalion Detachment, 588 points, 11 flamers, 4 heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams, 2 drops.

2x Canoness, Combi Flamer

3x Battle Sister Squad, 2x Flamer, 1 Combi Flamer

2x Repressor, 2x Heavy Flamer

12" movement, 20" threat range 11 flamers/4 heavy flamers/2 dozer rams. 13-18" Advance, 21-26" threat range 11 flamers.

Add in 3x Dominion Squads, 2x repressors, 11 flamers/4 heavy flamers, 4 total drops for 24" movement, 32" threat range, 11 flamers/4x heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams for 1093 points.

[peter.cosgrove]

The key element, to me, is that you gain this dual level of threat range/positional advantage WITHOUT using any command points.

If  you slice in 5 meltas/1 combi melta and another repressor , 1 dominion Squad, you can push the melta repressor and the single melta in the second repressor into double tap range on a vehicle and get 6 3+ shots, plus 2x heavy flamer/1x dozer ram in an Outrider detachment. You still have to figure out what to do with the HQ tax (45 point canoness, which can't go into the repressor) for 4 drops.

[peter.cosgrove]

Cut rate, 757 point Outrider detachment, 8 Flamers, 2 combi Flamers, 4 melta's/1 combi melta, 6 Heavy Flamers, 3 storm bolters, 3 dozer rams, 4 Drops.

Canoness 

2x Dominion Squads, 4 flamers/1 combi flamer

1x Dominion Squad, 4 Meltas/1 Combi Melta

3x Repressor, 6 Heavy Flamers, 3 Storm Bolters, 3 Dozer rams. 

25-29" movement range, 33-38" threat range, 10 flamers/6 heavy flamers, 37-42" threat range 5 Meltas (31-36" double tap) 3 storm bolters, 27 dozer ram (hitting on 5's),  plus threat density/positional advantage.

[Frowbakk]

While the 8" range of the flamers carried by the Dominions does synergize well with the vehicle mounted Heavy Flamer having the exact same range, it still does not make up for the lowly Flamer being considered even lowlier in the current meta. It sucks less when more them are together, but Sisters Fast Attack choices default to Melta when 91 points worth of 5 Seraphim with 4 Inferno Pistols have the same first turn threat range as the Dominions in Repressor when the Hand of the Emperor Act of Faith empowers the unit to move twice.

The second Heavy Flamer on the Repressor is also not the most efficient use of points. If you really want 2d6 flamer hits, it should be from the Immolation Cannon which has 4" more range, has an Assault profile so the Immolator can move, Advance, and STILL shoot that lovely auto-hitting 2d6 wounds. Heavy Flamers are Heavy and so not able to take advantage of the extra movement an Immolator can.

Far more common is adding a second Storm Bolter and with the 15 points saved getting an Elite choice Dialogus to claim objectives in ITC Mission #2, or be a speedbump, or trigger a Martyrdom stratagem in order to get an Imperial Soulburst for something else in position to cause harm.

Also, don't ignore the common Rhino. I run a Brigade (15 CP,  yay!) and four of the six required 51 point Troop choices tote 3 Storm Bolters each, cram themselves into two 77 point Rhinos with 2 Storm Bolters each and are accompanied by a Twin MultiMelta Immolator carrying yet another Troop Squad and a Canoness to pull off a 'Beta Strike' from the Drive-Up Dakka Distribution Depot. I've reliably made 40 cultists vaporize with all that hit on 3+, re-roll 1's shooting. It only took 4 wounds of the ubiquitous Jetbike Shield Captain in another game, though.

Plus three vehicles make for a nice 'Can't See Me/Can't Shoot Me' wall of not-terrain you can keep between the Dakka Depot and that close combat unit desperate to start swinging  chainaxes in a target rich environment.

Quantity has a quality all its' own.

Here's the list I'm taking to Mugu Games in Everett this Saturday, if you're interested:

Brigade Detachment (+12 CP), Index: Adepta Sororitas [2000pts / 100 PL] Battle Forged Army 15 CP
  49 HQ1: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Blade of Admonition (4) [49pts / 4 PL] WARLORD TRAIT: +1 A
  57 HQ2: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Eviscerator (12) [57pts / 4 PL]
  47 HQ3: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Chainsword (0) Storm Bolter (2) [47pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR1: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR2: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR3: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR4: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR5: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR6: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  77 DT1: Sororitas Rhino (75), Storm Bolter (2) Storm Bolter (2) [77pts/ 5PL]

  77 DT2: Sororitas Rhino (75), Storm Bolter (2) Storm Bolter (2) [77pts/ 5PL]

105 DT3: Sororitas Immolator (68), Immolation Cannon (35) Storm Bolter (2) [105pts / 5 PL]
122 DT4: Sororitas Immolator (68), Twin Multi-Melta (54) [122pts / 5 PL]
  15 EL1: Dialogus (15) [15pts / 1 PL]
  15 EL2: Dialogus (15) [15pts / 1 PL]
  40 EL3: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  40 EL4: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  40 EL5: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  85 HV1: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
  85 HV2: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
  85 HV3: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
120 FA1: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Meltagun x4 (68) Storm Bolter (2) [120pts / 5 PL]
120 FA2: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Meltagun x4 (68) Storm Bolter (2) [120pts / 5 PL]
  97 FA3: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Flamer x4 (36) Combi-Flamer (11) [97pts / 5 PL]
  91 FA4: Seraphim Squad x5 (55), 2 Inferno Pistols x2 (36) [91pts / 4 PL] 
  91 FA5: Seraphim Squad x5 (55), 2 Inferno Pistols x2 (36) [91pts / 4 PL]
112 DT5: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [112pts / 5 PL]
112 DT6: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [112pts / 5 PL]

112 DT7: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [112pts / 5 PL]

[pretre]

5 hours ago, peter.cosgrove said:

Dominion Squad/Repressor Synergy.

Dominion squads have Scout which carries to the vehicle they are in, Repressors have 12" movement and 6 firing ports. Before first turn this means the Repressors with DS in transport can move 13-18", them move another 12" first movement phase. DS can take 5 flamers/Melta's in each squad, 2 squads in each Repressor. This means 25" movement range and 33" Flamer/37" Melta threat range (31" double tap). 6 Flamers/2 heavy flamers per Repressor, plus 9 attacks on the charge from the dozer ram (hitting on 5's).

For 224 points you get 1 DS , 5 flamers and 1 repressor, 2 heavy flamers, dozer ram.

353 points, 2 DS, 6 Flamers, 4 Meltas, 1 repressor, 2 heavy flamers, dozer ram.

If you scrap the meltas, go for 3 DS, 2 Repressors and a single HQ, for 3 drops it's 550 points, 11 flamers, 4 heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams, you can even go to 2 drops if you put the HQ into a fortification.

We used to take double doms in Repressors pre- rule of 3. That's not a thing anymore. Now it's mostly 3 repressors, 3 squads. Don't take flamers. Just take meltas.

[pretre]

4 hours ago, peter.cosgrove said:

SOB Battalion Detachment, 588 points, 11 flamers, 4 heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams, 2 drops.

2x Canoness, Combi Flamer

3x Battle Sister Squad, 2x Flamer, 1 Combi Flamer

2x Repressor, 2x Heavy Flamer

12" movement, 20" threat range 11 flamers/4 heavy flamers/2 dozer rams. 13-18" Advance, 21-26" threat range 11 flamers.

Add in 3x Dominion Squads, 2x repressors, 11 flamers/4 heavy flamers, 4 total drops for 24" movement, 32" threat range, 11 flamers/4x heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams for 1093 points.

Don't take flamers. They are just bad right now. Heavy Flamers on the Rep and Immo flamers on the Immos are pretty okay. Normal flamers are not worth the points. Instead, 2 point Storm Bolters are the way to go on normal girls/superiors.

[peter.cosgrove]

I wouldn't be looking at a complete SOB list, but something to ally with to add positional advantage and high model count unit killingness that is able to do it on first turn for low cost/low command point requirements. The additional benefit of eating overwatch on the repressor is nice. I'm looking for something that can cross the 24" mark, kill a 30 model unit, hold 2 objectives and tie up 2 or more units in CC all on first turn for less than 500 points, no more than 3 deployment drops, and 0 command point usage. The additional benefit of it needing at least 2 units of shooting to take out a repressor and the dominion squad inside is an added bonus.

[peter.cosgrove]

It is interesting that it's impossible to take more than 11 flamers in 2 repressors. 

[pretre]

So, you can get a lot of bang out of your buck for SB Doms. You can take 5 SB in one squad, take on on the repressors and put two squads in a repressor. It ends up being a nasty amount of firepower.

[pretre]

2 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

It is interesting that it's impossible to take more than 11 flamers in 2 repressors. 

Not that I'd want to but:

Repressor

Dom squad with 4 Flamers and Combi

Dom squad with 4 Flamers and Combi

Repressor

Dom squad with 4 Flamers and Combi

BSS with 2 Flamers and Combi

 

That's 18 Flamers in 2 Repressors.

 

[peter.cosgrove]

Just now, pretre said:

Not that I'd want to but:

Repressor

Dom squad with 4 Flamers and Combi

Dom squad with 4 Flamers and Combi

Repressor

Dom squad with 4 Flamers and Combi

BSS with 2 Flamers and Combi

 

That's 18 Flamers in 2 Repressors.

 

ok, while I, heh, understand the point, 2 things. First, there's only 6 firing ports in the repressor, Second, you want to keep the whole "Scout" movement thing. The ability specifically says ONLY if EVERY model/unit in the vehicle has the ability. The DS can't be combat squaded (squaded? is that a word) and you are limited to 5 special weapons. So you take 1 squad of 5, that's 1 and 6 ports left open, Another squad of 5, that's 1 and 1 left open, so you take a 3rd squad with 1 special weapon? still leaves 1 port left unfired out of.

I guess I should have said "It's funny, but you can only fire 11 flamers out of two repressors and still keep the scout movement"

[pretre]

Just now, peter.cosgrove said:

I guess I should have said "It's funny, but you can only fire 11 flamers out of two repressors and still keep the scout movement"

Yes, that would have saved everyone a lot of time. 😉

[peter.cosgrove]

7 minutes ago, pretre said:

So, you can get a lot of bang out of your buck for SB Doms. You can take 5 SB in one squad, take on on the repressors and put two squads in a repressor. It ends up being a nasty amount of firepower.

You mean storm bolters. 4 shots hitting on 3's for the same S/AP as a flamer auto hitting. It's cheaper, yes. Averaging 3.5 hits per flamer, 2.6 hits per storm bolter. Heavy flamer 3.5 hits at S5/AP-1 vs 2.6 hits storm bolter S4/AP-. 

[pretre]

These are all things I am well aware of. The difference is 2 points versus 9 points and a lot of range. I've kind of played Sisters a little bit. :)

[pretre]

Also, comparing HF vs SB is a bit silly since the HF is 17 points and can be taken in different places.

Lastly, if you take a SB on a sup, it isn't one use like a combi.

[peter.cosgrove]

Well, ok. 11 flamers, 4 heavy flamers, 2 Storm bolters, 2 dozer rams. Figure 30 Ork boyz, T4/Sv 6+. 

38.5 flamer hits on average, 19 wounds 0AP

14 heavy flamer hits on average, 9 wounds -1 AP

5.2 storm bolter hits on average, 2 wounds 0AP

6 dozer hits on average, 4 wounds 0AP. 

25 wounds 0AP, 9 wounds -1 AP. Total killed 29 on average.

or...

15 storm bolters, 2 heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams.

7 heavy flamer hits on average, 4 wounds -1 AP

40 storm bolter hits on average, 20 wounds 0AP

6 dozer hits on average, 4 wounds 0AP.

24 wounds 0AP, 4 wounds -1AP, Total killed 24 on average.

Or even better...

13 storm bolters, 4 heavy flamers, 2 dozer rams

14 heavy flamer hits, 9 wounds -1AP

34 storm bolter hits, 17 wounds 0AP

6 dozer hits, 4 wounds 0AP. 

21 wounds 0AP, 9 wounds -1AP, Total killed 26 on average. 

+28 points per squad and added threat range to 12/24". 

77 points is 3 extra lascannons.

 

 

[pretre]

Core Loadout:
3 Dominion Squads - 150
2 Repressors - 216
Base Points - 356

My Loadout -
5 SB x3 - 30
2 SB for 2 Repressors - 4
Total - 34

Your loadout -
4 Flamer x3 - 108
3 Combis - 33
2 HF for Repressors - 34
Total - 175

Delta - 141

That's another repressor with SB (110) which adds another HF, SB, Dozer to the mix (2 HF wounds, 2 SB wounds, 1.5 Dozer) and gives you more targets/kills. And 31 more points for throwing additional stuff around if you really want.

That's the real difference between storm bolters and flamers. Efficiency of points.

 

[peter.cosgrove]

I actually only needed 50 points for 2 lascannons. So I added an (3 total) extra Dominiun model with only a boltgun (10pts) and still have 35 points left to spend. I wish AM had an equivalent to SM Null Zone.

[peter.cosgrove]

So, 18 Storm bolters, 6 Heavy flamers, 3 dozer rams in an outrider detachment.

64 bolter shots, 42 hits, 21 wounds 0AP

21 Heavy flamer hits, 14 wounds -1AP

9 dozer hits, 6 wounds 0AP

6+ 36 killed, 5+ 29 killed, 4+ 22 killed, MEQ 16 killed.

I like the idea of 3 repressors instead of 2. More scary plus threat density.

[pretre]

9 minutes ago, peter.cosgrove said:

So, 18 Storm bolters, 3 bolters, 6 Heavy flamers, 3 dozer rams in an outrider detachment.

78 bolter shots, 52 hits, 26 wounds 0AP

21 Heavy flamer hits, 14 wounds -1AP

9 dozer hits, 6 wounds 0AP

6+ 40 killed, 5+ 32 killed, 4+ 25 killed, MEQ 17 killed.

I like the idea of 3 repressors instead of 2. More scary plus threat density.

3 Repressors is the gold standard, imo.

[peter.cosgrove]

hmm, that refills up the priority unit, fills up 2 squads devs AND gives me a techmarine w/ conversion beamer.

[WestRider]

7 hours ago, pretre said:

Also, comparing HF vs SB is a bit silly since the HF is 17 points and can be taken in different places.

Lastly, if you take a SB on a sup, it isn't one use like a combi.

Combis aren't single use only anymore.

[pretre]

That is very true and something I always forget.

Nonetheless, my other points stand! 😉

[Lord Hanaur]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:56 AM, Frowbakk said:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

Brigade Detachment (+12 CP), Index: Adepta Sororitas [2000pts / 100 PL] Battle Forged Army 15 CP
  49 HQ1: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Blade of Admonition (4) [49pts / 4 PL] WARLORD TRAIT: +1 A
  57 HQ2: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Eviscerator (12) [57pts / 4 PL]
  47 HQ3: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Chainsword (0) Storm Bolter (2) [47pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR1: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR2: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR3: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR4: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR5: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR6: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  77 DT1: Sororitas Rhino (75), Storm Bolter (2) Storm Bolter (2) [77pts/ 5PL]

 

  77 DT2: Sororitas Rhino (75), Storm Bolter (2) Storm Bolter (2) [77pts/ 5PL]

 

105 DT3: Sororitas Immolator (68), Immolation Cannon (35) Storm Bolter (2) [105pts / 5 PL]
122 DT4: Sororitas Immolator (68), Twin Multi-Melta (54) [122pts / 5 PL]
  15 EL1: Dialogus (15) [15pts / 1 PL]
  15 EL2: Dialogus (15) [15pts / 1 PL]
  40 EL3: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  40 EL4: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  40 EL5: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  85 HV1: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
  85 HV2: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
  85 HV3: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
120 FA1: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Meltagun x4 (68) Storm Bolter (2) [120pts / 5 PL]
120 FA2: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Meltagun x4 (68) Storm Bolter (2) [120pts / 5 PL]
  97 FA3: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Flamer x4 (36) Combi-Flamer (11) [97pts / 5 PL]
  91 FA4: Seraphim Squad x5 (55), 2 Inferno Pistols x2 (36) [91pts / 4 PL] 
  91 FA5: Seraphim Squad x5 (55), 2 Inferno Pistols x2 (36) [91pts / 4 PL]
112 DT5: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [112pts / 5 PL]
112 DT6: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [112pts / 5 PL]

 

112 DT7: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [112pts / 5 PL]

 

 

 

I've not yet run into a list so thoroughly focused on one weapon before.  85 models and a ton of armor in there.  7 tanks is a ton to get through.  Super interesting.  With that much armor though i would have tried to spend the points for 7 Hunter Killer missiles.