Sisters of Battle

[pretre]

1 minute ago, Lord Hanaur said:

I've not yet run into a list so thoroughly focused on one weapon before. 

What're you talking about? His BSS have SB, his Rets have HB, his Doms have Meltas or Flamers, etc. He is pretty well spread around for different weapons.

[Lord Hanaur]

6 minutes ago, pretre said:

What're you talking about? His BSS have SB, his Rets have HB, his Doms have Meltas or Flamers, etc. He is pretty well spread around for different weapons.

Anything that could have had a Storm Bolter pretty much does and the things that dont (presumably because he had to fill the slots in his army) have volume of fire wherever possible.  You can be pedantic about it I suppose.  But my point stands.  He crammed more Storm Bolters into that list than I've encountered (or the next best thing for volume in the case of Retributors).  It's interesting.  It wasn't criticism.  Just observation.   And no army goes to war without some anti-tank and the obvious anti-tank is there.  Of course.

...And I would have tried to find the room for 7 Hunter Killer missiles.  That is the only critique I offered.

[pretre]

That's because SB are good and cheap. Have you taken a look at many SOB lists recently? They all have a tendency to look like that. :)

Heck, my list has less diversity of weapons than that and I've posted many versions of it on here and I'm pretty sure you've commented on them.

Where would you suggest cutting for those 42 points?

[Lord Hanaur]

13 minutes ago, pretre said:

That's because SB are good and cheap. Have you taken a look at many SOB lists recently? They all have a tendency to look like that. 🙂

Heck, my list has less diversity of weapons than that and I've posted many versions of it on here and I'm pretty sure you've commented on them.

Where would you suggest cutting for those 42 points?

The only place he can, in this list.  The Imagifier.  a 50/50 shot at an Act of Faith isn't nothing, and i totally get why it's their.  7 Hunter Killers can probably do more work by hitting 4.66 times, causing 8 wounds (average) against vehicles you need to pop, but possibly a whole lot more than that and in a far more condensed amount of time than say, the heavy Bolters over time.  So That's where I would do it.  

No list is without its sacrifices BUT...Imperial Knights have to be knocked out sooner than later and it would go a long way in the right direction to handle Ravagers and super must-kill targets like that.

 

[Frowbakk]

Well, we will see how the list as it is fares tomorrow and I'll write up some battle reports and adjust accordingly.

Just before the Rule of 3 was announced I was toying with converting up another unit of HB Retributors and a 4th Imagifer.

The Hunter-Killer missiles are a good idea, though. Especially since I had some previous edition hangover and forgot that everything has Split Fire now.

Edit: If I drop one SB from a Battle Sister Squad as well as the weapons from the Dominions (2xSB, Combi-Flamer) and the Canoness SB and Eviscerator, that'll give me 5 Hunter Killer Missiles. and one point left over.

5 Hunter Killer Missiles is what I want, since the Flamey Immolator will be Advancing and only able to shoot its Immolation Cannon, and I usually pop smoke on one of the Rhinos after I Advance it as well, so two out of the seven vehicles wouldn't be able to shoot Hunter Killer Missiles anyway.

[pretre]

Let us know!

 

[Lord Hanaur]

On 7/6/2018 at 8:52 PM, Frowbakk said:

Well, we will see how the list as it is fares tomorrow and I'll write up some battle reports and adjust accordingly.

Just before the Rule of 3 was announced I was toying with converting up another unit of HB Retributors and a 4th Imagifer.

The Hunter-Killer missiles are a good idea, though. Especially since I had some previous edition hangover and forgot that everything has Split Fire now.

Edit: If I drop one SB from a Battle Sister Squad as well as the weapons from the Dominions (2xSB, Combi-Flamer) and the Canoness SB and Eviscerator, that'll give me 5 Hunter Killer Missiles. and one point left over.

5 Hunter Killer Missiles is what I want, since the Flamey Immolator will be Advancing and only able to shoot its Immolation Cannon, and I usually pop smoke on one of the Rhinos after I Advance it as well, so two out of the seven vehicles wouldn't be able to shoot Hunter Killer Missiles anyway.

yup I'd totally make it happen. man.  Love me some Hunter Killers.  They come with no guarantees, but he who kills rapidly usually smiles last.

[WestRider]

4 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

yup I'd totally make it happen. man.  Love me some Hunter Killers.  They come with no guarantees, but he who kills rapidly usually smiles last.

Do unto others before they do unto you.

[Lord Hanaur]

10 hours ago, WestRider said:

Do unto others before they do unto you.

In this case:  absolutely.

 

[Lord Hanaur]

I don't know if I mentioned it HERE, by the way Frowbakk.  But my Daughter began playing Warhammer 40,000 about 9 games ago (6-3 record).  Some of you may know her since she has assisted me at the Ambassadorial Grand Tournament the last three years.
 

[Frowbakk]

So I went to an ITC tournament held at Mugu Games in Everett on 7/7. 24 players, and among them 17 Knights, 24 if counting Armigers.

Therefore, I was glad I modified my list to include some Hunter Killer Missiles.

 

 Brigade Detachment (+12 CP), Index: Adepta Sororitas [1999pts / 117 PL] Battle Forged Army:15 CP
  49 HQ1: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Blade of Admonition (4) [49pts / 4 PL] WARLORD TRAIT: +1 A
  45 HQ2: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Chainsword (0) [45pts / 4 PL]
  45 HQ3: Canoness (45) Bolt Pistol (0), Chainsword (0) [45pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR1: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR2: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR3: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR4: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  51 TR5: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x3 (6),  [51pts / 4 PL]
  49 TR6: Battle Sisters Squad Squad x5 (45), Storm Bolter x2 (4),  [49pts / 4 PL]
  77 DT1: Sororitas Rhino (75), Storm Bolter x2 (4) [77pts/ 5PL]

  83 DT2: Sororitas Rhino (75), Storm Bolter x2 (4) Hunter Killer Missile (6) [83pts/ 5PL]

105 DT3: Sororitas Immolator (68), Immolation Cannon (35) [103pts / 5 PL]
130 DT4: Sororitas Immolator (68), Twin Multi-Melta (54) Storm Bolter (2) Hunter Killer Missile (6) [130pts / 5 PL]
  15 EL1: Dialogus (15) [15pts / 1 PL]
  15 EL2: Dialogus (15) [15pts / 1 PL]
  40 EL3: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  40 EL4: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  40 EL5: Imagifer (40) [40pts / 2 PL]
  85 HV1: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
  85 HV2: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
  85 HV3: Retributor Squad x5 (45), Heavy Bolter x4 (40) [85pts / 5 PL]
118 FA1: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Meltagun x4 (68) ) [118pts / 5 PL]
118 FA2: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Meltagun x4 (68)  [118pts / 5 PL]
  86 FA3: Dominion Squad x5 (50), Flamer x4 (36) [86pts / 5 PL]
  91 FA4: Seraphim Squad x5 (55), 2 Inferno Pistols x2 (36) [91pts / 4 PL] 
  91 FA5: Seraphim Squad x5 (55), 2 Inferno Pistols x2 (36) [91pts / 4 PL]
118 DT5: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) Hunter Killer Missile (6) [118pts / 5 PL]
118 DT6: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) Hunter Killer Missile (6) [118pts / 5 PL]

118 DT7: Sororitas Repressor (91) Heavy Flamer (17), Storm Bolter x2 (4) Hunter Killer Missile (6) [118pts / 5 PL]

[/spoiler]

With 17 to 20 units to drop (even with multiple units riding in transports) it was fairly certain I would not get the +1 on the roll to go first. I never did. However, in a twist of fate every one of my opponents rolled a one to go first, while I rolled 4 or higher and none seized the initiative.

Game one was against Drukhari allied with Craftworld Eldar. He reserved three Ravagers, a couple of Venoms, and left three Talos and a unit of Abominations or whatever they're called to keep the Haemonculus company in the midfield while his Eldar characters kept back with an Archon and an Eldar jet.

In what was to be a theme for today, three Imagifers (and a re-roll) managed to produce zero extra acts of Faith. So I could only send one unit of Seraphim with a double move to go Talos or Character hunting instead of two. The other continuing theme was the four Dominion Flamers in a Repressor became, after torching a unit, THE target of priority for my opponents. So much for the suckiest special weapon that ever sucked suck, I guess.  Apparently I had also brushed up on the ITC rules from last year or something because the 'Characters get bonus points for claiming objectives' mission which I thought was going to be there... wasn't. Therefore the secondary objectives were also slightly different.

Slightly rusty play and deployment mistakes made for some units being out of position, but two out of three Talos and half the Abominations did not survive the round, although an Archon tanked 7 Immolation Cannon hits to his 2++ field. I weathered his return fire and only lost the Flamer Repressor completely, but with only one additional Act of Faith generated, it didn't amount to much, but I was able to get the last Talos,  Abominations and Haemonculus off the field.

Just in time for Big Ol' Beta Strike out of reserve, carefully measured so his weapons would be shot at close to maximum range. I had saved some Hunter killer Missiles for his reserves, but in retrospect I should have used 'em to make the Talos go away faster and maneuvered to be  in better position. It came down to his Venoms killing most of a unit for another to mop up before getting destroyed in return. The game got to a satisfactory conclusion with Drukhari winning 21 points to my 15. Which was actually enough to pit me against someone who won their first game. Middle of the pack, yay.

Round 2 was against a Mugu Legion regular with the shooty new Knight Valiant, Blood Angels and Astra Militarum in full CP Farm formation. Turn one saw no additional Acts of Faith again, and therefore only one unit of Seraphim could go harass the Titan (with it's 3++ save, to no effect.) Despite his screening Crusaders having 2++ due to a Stratagem, 21 Flamer hits followed up by a Heavy Flamer and Immolation Cannon made his screen for Mephiston and two Slam-guinius Jump Captains go bye-bye. This is where I made the crucial mistake and forgot to charge with the Repressors. If I had, I would have got two Secondary points and been in position to have the Flamer Repressor leisurely drive through the Astra Militarum Mortar Ranch and CP Farm.

Instead, he was able to shoot at the Flamer Repressor 'til it died... and blew up. Which damaged four other tanks in the area. One of which got focus -fired by Devastators and Primaris Aggressors until it died... and blew up. Damaging other tanks and units in the area. Then in his close combat phase he killed three more tanks, two of which blew up  Which damaged tanks and units in the area. Mephiston and a Slam-guinius died with most of the Death Company and all of the Aggressors, but out of the 5 Battle Sisters units which were in those tanks, only a Canoness, three Storm Bolters and a regular Battle Sister survived.

That was when the TO wandered by and said we were in good shape for time when my opponent said 'We just finished Turn One' and I said, 'but we killed fifty percent of each others armies.

We finished the game to the very end and I learned a 28 wound Knight with a 3++ ain't going down. In fact I only managed to get one Melta to go through for six wounds. That's it. All game, one melta got through his defenses. My opponent learned that the ITC Concession rule means if you say 'Yeah, no chance to win, let's call it here' means you get zero points. Not even the points you've made so far, they all go away and you get absolutely nothing. And so I got to play hide and seek versus a Volcano Cannon and Mortars for the remaining five rounds, unable to score any points for myself the last three. I got nine points to my opponents 36, an remembered to use that freaking Ram Dozer  for sure.

Third game was against Ynnari Eldar with three Wave Serpents, three psychic fighter jets, Rangers, a sniper character and Eldrad along with two units of Guardians in the Wave Serpents. And the Yncarne, of course. No extra Acts of Faith yet again so just one unit of Seraphim to Inferno Pistol a fighter across the battlefield. Unfortunately too many building in the way to focus fire from Dominions on more than one tank each, or a unit of Rangers burnt to death from the Flamer Dominions which popped the Yncarne.

In his turn he blasted a few units and a Dominion which let me get off an Act of Faith to destroy another unit of guardians, AND heal the Yncarne up from the damage it had taken previously.

Then I was able to destroy every unit around the Yncarne first before it succumbed to over fifty Storm Bolter and Bolter shots. Eventually it came down to me not being able to bring enough Meltas to bear on two of his Wave Serpents which ended up surviving the battle, although nothing else did. 18 to 9 win for me.

It was fun, and the Hunter Killer Missiles did seem lackluster at first when I was saving them for just the right target and have the tank destroyed beneath them. The last game I made sure to concentrate Missile fire on the most damaged Wave Serpent (yay 48" range) with them whatever else the tank and its' occupants were doing.

Fun overall, and the Flamer Dominions did more heavy lifting than I originally anticipated.

 

[Lord Hanaur]

Lame.  Knights do not belong in normal 40K but having less answers to them = bad idea.  🙂

as aforementioned.  Hehe.

[pretre]

19 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

 Knights do not belong in normal 40K🙂

 

[Lord Hanaur]

Meme's:  The weakest possible response.

This wasn't even a debate at one time.  Meanwhile 17 of 24 had them at this tournament he's talking about.  Must not be very good then.  Couldnt even get into more than 71% of the MUGU lists?  Psh.

 

[SPaceORK]

I mean if knights don't belong then leman russes, landraiders, some dreads, dreadknights, riptides, wraithknights, baneblades, greater demons, stompas, gorkanaughts, stormravens, primarchs, stormsurges, wraithlords, swarmlord, etc don't belong either.

They are all "hard" to kill (2+ or better save, pile of wounds, good invulns, negatives to hit, fnp, etc), or have great offense, or both.

Good thing Killteam is on the way so we can just play with infantry models and not worry bout the big scary things.

[Frowbakk]

That many Knights and that many players. Separate columns.

One guy had three knights, another had 4 with Shapeways Wolf Heads and Armigers, a few lists just one.

Is it time to equip Sergeant equivalents with Meltabombs again? Perhaps.

[pretre]

10 hours ago, Lord Hanaur said:

Meme's:  The weakest possible response.

This wasn't even a debate at one time.  Meanwhile 17 of 24 had them at this tournament he's talking about.  Must not be very good then.  Couldnt even get into more than 71% of the MUGU lists?  Psh.

 

Also, I think everyone else has covered your statistical sins. :)

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Frowbakk said:

That many Knights and that many players. Separate columns.

One guy had three knights, another had 4 with Shapeways Wolf Heads and Armigers, a few lists just one.

Is it time to equip Sergeant equivalents with Meltabombs again? Perhaps.

Envious of your melta bombs. Chaos Marines don't know what melta bombs are anymore...

[SPaceORK]

3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Envious of your melta bombs. Chaos Marines don't know what melta bombs are anymore...

But they have far more reliable access to mortal wounds.

Plus beszerkers will kill a knight with just rage. And 180 attacks

[WestRider]

4 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Envious of your melta bombs. Chaos Marines don't know what melta bombs are anymore...

No need for envy. Meltabombs kind of suck in 8th. They can't be used in CC anymore, only as a 4" shooting attack.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestRider said:

No need for envy. Meltabombs kind of suck in 8th. They can't be used in CC anymore, only as a 4" shooting attack.

Well, chaos have warptime, so it would be pretty feasible to deep strike 9" away, warptime to the 4" mark, and then use the melta bombs. Plus chaos really don't have a whole lot of character weapon upgrades for unit champions and PA marines. A 5pt bomb would be a nice alternative. Sounds much better than paying for 19pt combi-meltas to do the same thing...

 

[WestRider]

12 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Well, chaos have warptime, so it would be pretty feasible to deep strike 9" away, warptime to the 4" mark, and then use the melta bombs. Plus chaos really don't have a whole lot of character weapon upgrades for unit champions and PA marines. A 5pt bomb would be a nice alternative. Sounds much better than paying for 19pt combi-meltas to do the same thing...

 

1) The Big FAQ killed the Warptime thing. A Unit can't move for any reason on the Turn it arrived from Reserves.

2) It's useless for those times where keeping the target tied up (and/or your Unit safe from shooting in Melee) is a big part of the goal.

I've been really disappointed with them on my Eversors. They're awful at dealing with Vehicles or Fortifications now.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestRider said:

1) The Big FAQ killed the Warptime thing. A Unit can't move for any reason on the Turn it arrived from Reserves.

2) It's useless for those times where keeping the target tied up (and/or your Unit safe from shooting in Melee) is a big part of the goal.

I've been really disappointed with them on my Eversors. They're awful at dealing with Vehicles or Fortifications now.

I really need to read that FAQ more. Thought I had, but keep having other people tell me more things that I didn't realize were in there.

Regarding Eversor, seems like the main disappointment is that the Battle Brother's Rule means that Assassins can only be bought as Aux Detachments. EDIT: Looks like FAQ says vanguards too.