Chaos dwarfs for Ofcc

[Dreadlord7476]

My buddy just bought all these guys from Forge world and wanted to bring them down to this event as the traveling farm

 

Sorcerer-Prophet: Talisman of Preservation; Charmed Shield; Crown of Command; Scroll of Shielding; Level 4 Wizard; Bale Taurus 625

 

38 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard: fireglaives; Deathmask (pistol; Naphtha bomb); musician; standard bearer (Banner of Swiftness) 700

 

6 Bull Centaur Renders: additional hand weapons; Bull Centaur Ba'hal; musician; standard bearer 295

6 Bull Centaur Renders: additional hand weapons; Bull Centaur Ba'hal; musician; standard bearer 295

6 Bull Centaur Renders: great weapons; Bull Centaur Ba'hal; musician; standard bearer (Banner of Eternal Flame) 335

 

K'daai Destroyer 325

Bale Taurus 225

 

2,800 points

[Failed Charge]

This is my list. No comments?

 

Maybe people are not familiar with the stats because it's chaos dwarfs. Here's a more detailed break down.

 

 

Ofcc (Chaos Dwarfs) 2,800 points

Lords 625 points (22%)

Sorcerer-Prophet (625)

 

M3·WS5·BS4·S4·T5·W3·I2·A3·Ld10

Talisman of Preservation; Charmed Shield; Crown of Command; Scroll of Shielding; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Hashut; Blackshard Armour; Darkforged Weapon

Infantry (Character); Resolute; Relentless; Contempt; Daemonsmith; Sorcerer's Curse

 

• Bale Taurus

 

M6·WS5·BS0·S6·T6·W5·I3·A4·Ld6

Monster; Blazing Body; Fuelled by Fire; Flaming Attacks; Fly; Large Target; Terror

 

Core 700 points (25%)

38 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard (700)

 

M3·WS4·BS3·S4·T4·W1·I2·A1·Ld9

Blackshard armour; hand weapons; shields; fireglaives; musician; standard bearer (Banner of Swiftness)

Infantry; Resolute; Relentless; Contempt

 

• Deathmask

 

M3·WS5·BS3·S4·T4·W1·I2·A2·Ld9

pistol; Naphtha bomb

 

Special 925 points (33%)

6 Bull Centaur Renders (295)

 

M7·WS4·BS2·S4·T5·W3·I3·A2·Ld8

heavy armour; hand weapons; additional hand weapons; musician; standard bearer

Monstrous Beasts; Contempt; Fear; Scaly Skin (5+)

 

• Bull Centaur Ba'hal

 

M7·WS4·BS2·S4·T5·W3·I3·A2·Ld8

 

6 Bull Centaur Renders (295)

 

M7·WS4·BS2·S4·T5·W3·I3·A2·Ld8

heavy armour; hand weapons; additional hand weapons; musician; standard bearer

Monstrous Beasts; Contempt; Fear; Scaly Skin (5+)

 

• Bull Centaur Ba'hal

 

M7·WS4·BS2·S4·T5·W3·I3·A2·Ld8

 

6 Bull Centaur Renders (335)

 

M7·WS4·BS2·S4·T5·W3·I3·A2·Ld8

heavy armour; hand weapons; great weapons; musician; standard bearer (Banner of Eternal Flame)

Monstrous Beasts; Contempt; Fear; Scaly Skin (5+)

 

• Bull Centaur Ba'hal

 

M7·WS4·BS2·S4·T5·W3·I3·A2·Ld8

 

Rare 550 points (20%)

K'daai Destroyer (325)

 

M9·WS5·BS3·S7·T6·W6·I5·A6·Ld8

spite and hellfire (hand weapon)

Monster; Blazing Body; Bound Fire Daemon; Burning Bright; Flaming Attacks; Frenzy (D3 Attacks); Large Target; Terror; Unbreakable; Unstable

 

Bale Taurus (225)

 

M6·WS5·BS0·S6·T6·W5·I3·A4·Ld6

hand weapon

[Drak]

edittng my initial response to: "it looks no fun from my perspective" because of the some of the aforementioned criteria and my lack of experience against choas dwarfs.

I won't try to make any suggestions as I don't know enough about the book to do so.

[Exile]

One Death star, several units of Monstrous Cav, and 3 Thunderstomping Monsters (One of which is a Kadaii). I don't have the most experience with the Tamurkhan list, But I'm having a hard time seeing this list as particularly OFCC oriented.

[Failed Charge]

they are choas dwarves (ie is there anything I there book that isn't awesome??) Army wide t4 or better, I'm sure there are armor saves abound, plenty of flaming "I hurt you if you touch me" stuff, and several blocks of str6 t5 monsterois I'll crush you bulls. ya I'm asking my Captian to not put me against this list.

What are you talking about? The bulls are strength 4 with 3 attacks because I have taken extra hand weapons otherwise they have 2 attacks each! There is ONE unit of strength 6 bulls with a whopping 2 attacks each. Lol the units are small as they are only 6 per unit.

 

The flying sorcerer Lord on a bull is a total cannon target, the bull has no save outside of non magical attacks must re roll to wound, Trust me he's no where near survivable as you think, in fact I give The Lord stubborn because I have to put him into combat right away because cannons and magic missiles bring him down very quickly when I do play him, let alone magical wood elf poison shooting.

 

The kadaii is definitely a sore spot with people and I would take him out in his place I would likely use a train or 6 kadaii fireborn.

 

Your blanket statement about the chaos dwarves shows you don't have much experience with them. There are 3 under costed things in the army.... Magma cannons, death shrieker rockets and to some extent the Destroyer.

[Failed Charge]

One Death star, several units of Monstrous Cav, and 3 Thunderstomping Monsters (One of which is a Kadaii). I don't have the most experience with the Tamurkhan list, But I'm having a hard time seeing this list as particularly OFCC oriented.

38 dwarfs with overpriced fireglaives are a Death Star? You know they are 17 points each bs 3 with an 18 inch range? They are decent in combat with strength 5 but did you see that I have no BSB and no characters in the unit? In my neck of the woods I wouldn't call it a Death Star I would call it points denial or someone trying to fill there core slot.

 

I respect your comments about not having experience with the book, it receives a lot of hate because of the gun line aspect which I personally find to be no fun. Instead I tried to make a list with no war machines that would ensure me and my opponent BOTH rolled dice, it requires a lot of movement which I feel is fun.

 

I will consider splitting up the dwarf block and dropping e kadaii

[rudra34]

I think Everyone is overreacting to the list a bit.  

 

The unit of big dwarfs is not insane, people bring units of 30+warriors in a regular dwarf list and no one bats an eyes.  These aren't any better, and they are very expensive with the fireglaves (which are only so-so).  Also, it has zero character support, making it not a death star by definition.

 

The bull centaurs are essentially weaker dragon ogres, which no one ever sees because they are considered to be a mediocre unit.

 

The general is on a big, easy-to-shoot target.  He is also the level 4, so if you bring him down then the army is really going to suffer.

 

There are no war machines, and the Chaos Dwarfs can bring some nasty ones if they wanted to. 

 

The only thing real terrible about this list is the destroyer, and even that has ways that it can be dealt with.   

 

Honestly I don't see what all the fuss is about.  The list has some great punch to it, but don't seem nuts to me.

[MexicanNinja]

I didn't comment on it because I didn't think it needed any. I have to agree with rudra on this, it's not an over the top list. You have a big block of dudes, some mc (who aren't that hard to deal with), a caster flying around on a cannon magnet, another "decent" monster, and a heavy hitter (destroyer). This is on the extremely low end of the op chaos dwarf builds.

 

Their war machines put dwarf war machines to shame. This list could get much harder with only 3 different unit options. I like this list and hope to play it with my dwarf army.

[MexicanNinja]

One Death star, several units of Monstrous Cav, and 3 Thunderstomping Monsters (One of which is a Kadaii). I don't have the most experience with the Tamurkhan list, But I'm having a hard time seeing this list as particularly OFCC oriented.

I have seen plenty of lists with 3 monsters in them. What makes this any different than my dwarf army? I don't have mc but pack a flame cannon and have a unit of 30 models who could potentially get a 2+/5++parry on all facings and is stubborn.

[ClassicFlava]

I haven't played against the new chaos dwarves yet but looking at all of the rules this list doesn't seem super toufgh at all. I think it is appropriate for OFCC

[Exile]

I have seen plenty of lists with 3 monsters in them. What makes this any different than my dwarf army? I don't have mc but pack a flame cannon and have a unit of 30 models who could potentially get a 2+/5++parry on all facings and is stubborn.

Don't get me wrong, I love the FW Chaos Dwarf models, and I am fully able to admit that I may have overreacted, and 'death star' may have been the wrong term. However, when I see a stark dichotomy between one big block o'dudes as your sole core choice, and three units of MC equipped essentially identically (and let's be honest, they are still T5 with a 3 up and 3 wounds a pop) I just get some warning bells. The lack of variety is partly what may have caused me to react how I did. If one is looking for some constructive criticism, spice things up a bit, drop one of the monsters (doesn't even have to be the kadaii), and one of the MC, and add in some more bodies.

[AgentP]

I don't see a problem with the list.  I think it lacks variety and would benefit from mixing up units and adding in some diversity.  But as it is, it's not over the top.

[thatdave]

I don't see a problem with the list.  I think it lacks variety and would benefit from mixing up units and adding in some diversity.  But as it is, it's not over the top.

 

Indeed.  Good, but not crazy.  Certainly not in the rejectable/needs fixin' category. 

 

BTW, what lore are you going with?  We all know that there are better choices in the magic lores that will affect the power level of a list.  I have a guess, but I'll hold onto it for now.

[Veskit]

Well on a big flyer you usually see death which would up the power level of this list considerably, the rest of the lores don't benefit him as much but will help his rating.

 

Although I think he's going with the chaos dwarf lore since his gf made him up some cards special ;)

[WarlordGhrom]

Lacks variety, but isn't over the top in power especially for CDs. 

 

I think it is fine for OFCC, but don't necessarily like it as an army...

[Failed Charge]

Well on a big flyer you usually see death which would up the power level of this list considerably, the rest of the lores don't benefit him as much but will help his rating.

 

Although I think he's going with the chaos dwarf lore since his gf made him up some cards special ;)

 

Veskit is correct, My girlfriend recently printed me off some beautiful spell cards for the lore of Hashut.

 

There are 4 lore choices for magic available for chaos dwarfs on a level 4.

 

Death would be the best one as soulblight and the snipes would be excellent on a flaying caster that wants to get into combat, since this is OFCC thats not an option. 

 

Fire is the second best option with my list as I can use the fire buffs to heal my flying Bale Taurus's. I thought this might be seen as me being a bit cheeky and trying to game the system

 

Hashut This is just slightly worse than fire as far as synergy goes but has a couple of great spells in Ash Storm, Breath of Hatred and Flames of Azgorh

 

Metal Just seems useless to me with how this list is played so it's not even a consideration.

 

If people think Fire would make my list softer then I am all up for switching! 

[Failed Charge]

Lacks variety, but isn't over the top in power especially for CDs. 

 

I think it is fine for OFCC, but don't necessarily like it as an army...

 

It's a themed list.... The Lord rides a bull, Units of Bull Centaurs, The core unit has +1 movement and carries a standard with a Bulls head, the Kadaii Destroyer is a Giant Bull and the Lord brings with him a spare mount because the bull he rides always gets shot out from underneath him LOL

[Failed Charge]

I've been trying to adhere to the guidelines as much as possible. Here are my thoughts given the guidelines that I have read.

 

1. Is this list in the spirit of the OFCC, and a hobbyist event emphasizing sportsmanship and fun games, or is it designed with competition in mind?

 

A) I believe this is a hobbyist list, it's fluffy, fast and promotes combats where both sides will roll dice. The Bull units have been kept manageable so that infantry units will remain steadfast for a few rounds giving the opponent time to buff up his units with spells and if I lose a combat I don't have a BSB, so only get one roll of the dice to stay, mind you i have swiftstride with a lot of the units but the bulls lose a banner when they break and thats an expensive model to lose when you only have 6 in a block!

2. Does this list have a theme, or are unit selections apparently made based solely on tactical advantage?

 

A) Yes This list is themed, The only tactical advantage I see is the list moves very quickly and will put pressure on the opponent turn 1, a double edged sword for sure

3. Does this appear to be an Internet list?

 

A) I'd love for someone to show me an internet list with no war machines from chaos dwarfs.

 

4. Are unusual, or seldom seen, choices present in the army?

 

A) Bull Centaurs are rarely if ever seen unless someone is taking a bare bones 3 which is required for you to take the Hero Bull character (old old rules) The Lord on FLying bull is also rare due to him not fitting into the standard gunline build sdeen on the internet.

 

5. Is this a gunline?

 

A) I have guys with guns and they stand in a line of 10 wide? So literally yes???? Haha no this is not a gun line.

 

6. Is this a MSU list?

 

A) Almost ever unit is 300 points, I would say it's MMU multiple medium units which id what I believe this event is looking for.

7. Is this a deathstar list?

 

A) No, not by mine but some people might see the core unit as one so I am considering breaking it up....

 

8. Is this a rock, paper, scissors list?

 

A) Only if it plays an empire/dwarf list with 3 cannons, then I am wet paper to his sharp scissors!

 

9. Does this list look fun to play against?

 

A) I thought the answer was yes.... however not everyone like turn 2 combats

10. Does this list try to break the mold, and bring something new to see?

 

​A) Mold BROKEN that's for sure

 

 

So what I see so far is a couple of people have problems with 2 things comp wise.

 

1) My core unit is too big and potentially frowned upon

 

2) I have 3 monsters and one of them is a Kadaii

 

Tonight I will post a variant list Likely dropping the extra Bale Taurus for a Bull Character, and making my fireglaive unit smaller and adding some regular dwarfs with hand weapon and shield or some goblin slaves!

[ratrek]

I don't get the fuss.

 

One big points denail block that will hold a watch tower nicely but can be beaten by anything with good combat punch and no BSB to help. The rest is a decently quick assault list. The AHW on the Bull Centaur's instead of everything having GW's is laudable.

 

Frankly that looks fun to play both with and against to me.

 

It could be much worse and still stay to the original idea. Swap all the BC's to GW, bin one of the BC units for a Train, cull a bunch of the dwarves for a crap ton of cheap Hobgoblin redirectors, etc.

 

I'm surprised on the lack of regard for the Hashut going on here. Ashstorm is a game winner. Though I can certainly see Death. It lets it go after character points and such to get the win against defensive armies that refuse to come out of their shell.

 

Either way I'm right back to this is the best CD list I've seen in some time for being straight up fun to play against.

[rudra34]

With all of the fire-related business going on in your list, I think that lore of fire is the way to go.  It may not be the optimal choice, but still is a strong lore which can be awesome against certain armies (I'm looking at you, elves!).   

 

And don't worry about it seeming boring.  Ogre lists are basically just made up of blocks of the same troops with different weapons, and no one cares :)

[MexicanNinja]

I don't see the problem with this list.  The shooting isn't spectacular and is extremely limited in range and will almost always have at least a -1 to hit.

 

@ratrek, the block of troops can't even start in the buiding and it would take him 3 turns of movement to even get into the tower.  12" deploy, 6" march, 5' march, move into tower (you can't enter a building on the same turn you march).

 

@rudra34, lore of fire has access to the best chaff clearing spell and flame cage is phenomenal agaisnt T3 armies.

 

I honestly don't see the need for this list to change much.  I say you challenge the rating commitee with your army list and let them dish out the rating.  If it's too high or needs to change, you'll know.  I don't think it's that bad, honestly.

[WarlordGhrom]

I agree with MN.  I think this will be fine from a rating standpoint, so I would just go with it.

[thatdave]

I'll reiterate that I think the list is fine as well. I am thinking that Hashut is a generally better lore in terms of power than Fire, but that doesn't mean it has to be changed.

[ratrek]

MN: I don't know why you say that like it matters.

 

Either A: you're too busy dealing with everything else running full steam at you that they get there scott free or B: You've beat the crap out of all the things running at you and the block is toast whether it gets to the building or not.

 

The only time speed might be an issue is if Chosen or Hammerer's get there first and you actually need to take the tower to win. Which if I understand the OFCC missions, is not a requirement.

[MexicanNinja]

MN: I don't know why you say that like it matters.

 

Either A: you're too busy dealing with everything else running full steam at you that they get there scott free or B: You've beat the crap out of all the things running at you and the block is toast whether it gets to the building or not.

 

The only time speed might be an issue is if Chosen or Hammerer's get there first and you actually need to take the tower to win. Which if I understand the OFCC missions, is not a requirement.

I mentioned it because you said it was a big block of points denial for the watch tower. I was just saying that the unit can@t evne start in the watch tower.