JMGraham Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Joey has spoken. When he told me closed lists, he meant hidden things (like locations of fanatics and assassins) were hidden, but lists were otherwise open. Magic items are public knowledge. Fanatics, assassins (and anything else that counts on being hidden - let me know if were missing anything) need to be listed on the army list, but not where they are located (though that has to be written down on a separate list for verification after the game). In other words, don't count on sneaky sneakerson to win the day. So speaketh Joey, so mote it be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Wow, thanks for answering this stuff so quickly, you guys are really on top of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiggy Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hey guys, This is James, coming down from Vancouver Island for this tournament looking forward to it. Running a pretty soft list which includes a hunter on stonehorn just had a quick question regarding the "Hunting Beast" rule. Rule states "any shooting attacks against the model will hit the stonehorn on a D6 roll of 1-4 and the hunter on a 5+". In regards specifically to a cannon would this rule override the regular rules for a character and a mount both being hit by a cannon ball? Hunter and stonehorn is a pretty unique model with a MI riding a monster, don't think any other model exists like that in the game. The answer to this won't change my list but I'd just like to know how it will be ruled before the tournament as I'm sure I'll run into some cannons :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 i beleive they are using the us masters faq. There is a link to it in the warhammer section of the forums. I would imagine this is addressed in the faq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiggy Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 No mention of it in the US masters FAQ. Thanks for the suggestion though. Stonehorns aren't very popular and an expensive character on a stonehorn makes it even less popular. I'd imagine its pretty rare that a ruling has to be made on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hey guys, Rule states "any shooting attacks against the model will hit the stonehorn on a D6 roll of 1-4 and the hunter on a 5+". In regards specifically to a cannon would this rule override the regular rules for a character and a mount both being hit by a cannon ball? Hunter and stonehorn is a pretty unique model with a MI riding a monster, don't think any other model exists like that in the game. Hmmm... How is this different from a normal ridden monster? The typical ridden monster rules have the same randomization rules for shooting attacks. However, the BRB classifies cannons as a template attack, which hits both. I can look into it, but at first blush it doesn't sound any different than the rules for the typical ridden monster (MI status of the rider doesn't seem to affect things). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hmmm... How is this different from a normal ridden monster? The typical ridden monster rules have the same randomization rules for shooting attacks. However, the BRB classifies cannons as a template attack, which hits both. I can look into it, but at first blush it doesn't sound any different than the rules for the typical ridden monster (MI status of the rider doesn't seem to affect things). This is a grey area. There is no clear answer for this situation. RAW, you would randomise the hit from a template weapon and only one model will be hit, because the special rule for the Stonehorn just states shooting. It doesn't clarify shooting with or without templates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergentzimm Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Will the new chaos rules be in effect, WD and army rules for warriors and demons? Just curious if I can make up some of those nurgle warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDiggy Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 What MexicanNinja said. To add onto to it though, I would just ask why they wrote the rule if they had intended it to be the same as the regular rules for monsters/riders. Why not just reference the rulebook and say "follow all the regular rules for shooting at a ridden monster" or just leave it out completely. This decision won't affect my list, just easier to hash this ruling out now then on the day of the tournament. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 What MexicanNinja said. To add onto to it though, I would just ask why they wrote the rule if they had intended it to be the same as the regular rules for monsters/riders. Why not just reference the rulebook and say "follow all the regular rules for shooting at a ridden monster" or just leave it out completely. This decision won't affect my list, just easier to hash this ruling out now then on the day of the tournament. Thanks I don't think it was intended to work the same as a ridden monster. I believe this was the uniqueness for taking it as a mount for a Hunter. That's a ton of points spent on a hero for an army who usually only has 3 characters. I've asked the same question at my location and we have all agreed that this is the one situation where the template weapons (to include cannons) have to randomize who they hit. I'm a new Ogre player and the list I'm creating initially had 3 stonehorns (one of them a mount of my hunter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 That's a ton of points spent on a hero for an army who usually only has 3 characters. I'm not sure what the answer to this question, but I don't think the above part is relevant to the ruling. Most ridden monsters are a ton of points and restrict other character selections. Any dragon rider for example. They're still ridiculously weak to cannons. Most are even weaker since the chance of one-shotting a 2 or 3 wound rider with a cannonball is significantly higher than one-shotting a 4 wound hunter. What about a HE dragon mage? It's a 400 point 2 wound hero on a mount. It's definitely a weird case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I'm not sure what the answer to this question, but I don't think the above part is relevant to the ruling. Most ridden monsters are a ton of points and restrict other character selections. Any dragon rider for example. They're still ridiculously weak to cannons. Most are even weaker since the chance of one-shotting a 2 or 3 wound rider with a cannonball is significantly higher than one-shotting a 4 wound hunter. What about a HE dragon mage? It's a 400 point 2 wound hero on a mount. It's definitely a weird case. No, it has nothing to do with anything. I was just typing and hit "post". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 No, it has nothing to do with anything. I was just typing and hit "post". haha, fair enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 With GW updating the FAQ to allow 50% lords and hero's does that mean that will be the case for tgisntournament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 That Ogre thingee seems to be a weird exception to the BRB. Randomize the cannonball. No 50% Lords and Heroes, as Swedish does not yet take it into account. Same thing with the new Nurgle stuff, for the same reason. Scenario synopses and list submission instructions should be out tonight! Been plugging along at some of the swag, and there should be some cool stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Original post has been updated, but for redundancy's sake, here's the info on scenarios and list-submission: Scenarios All scenarios will award the Swedish composition point differential (x100) in VP to the higher ranked army. An additional 500 VP will be available each game from scenario points. Detailed narratives and descriptions of scenarios will be provided in the tournament pack on the day of the tournament. But, for list building/practice purposes, a summary of each scenario follows: Game 1: Diagonal deployment, with units deployed no closer than 9” from the center line. At the end of the game, you score 125 VPs for each board quarter that contains one of your scoring units, and no enemy scoring units. Scoring units for this scenario are units consisting of at least one full rank, as appropriate to the unit type (e.g., 5 for infantry or cavalry, 3 models for monstrous infantry and monstrous cavalry). Units consisting of single models or units without ranks (skirmishers, chariots, monsters, warmachines, etc.) do not count as scoring units. Characters do count toward determining whether a unit has a complete rank. If a unit is straddling two or more quarters, it counts as being in the one in which the majority of the unit falls (if equal, the controlling player decides). Game 2: 12” deployment zones. Two objectives (which are treated as open terrain) are placed on the field, 18 inches from each player's table edge and 18 inches from each player's left flank. Starting on the 3rd game turn, each objective can be scored. You score an objective if, at the end of your opponent's turn, you have an un-engaged scoring unit within 3" of the objective, and there are no enemy scoring units within 3" of the objective. When you score an objective, you earn 250 VPs, and the objective is removed and cannot be scored further. Scoring units for this scenario are any unit containing a standard, a battle standard, or the army's general. Game 3: 12” deployment zones. An objective (which is treated as open terrain) is placed in the center of the table. You score the objective if, at the end of the game, you have a scoring unit within 3" of the objective and there are no enemy scoring units within 3" of the objective. When you score the objective, you recieve 500 VP. Scoring units for this scenario are units consisting solely of infantry or monstrous infantry. List Submission: Please submit your list via e-mail to bellinghamwarhamsters@gmail.com no later than Sunday, November 2nd at noon. When submitting your list, please follow these guidelines: 1) Please spell out all of your magic items and upgrades – please don’t use abbreviations or shortened versions of names (e.g., use “Banner of Eternal Flame”, not “Flame Banner”). Exception: you can use the term “Full Command” to reference units that have been upgraded with a Champion, Musician, and Standard Bearer. 2) Indicate the the magic lore used for any spellcasters. 3) Please don’t list equipment or steeds that comes standard on the unit (e.g., don’t list Chaos Armour on an entry for Chaos Warriors) 4) End Time rules and units will not be used for this tournament (to maximize the utility of the Swedish Comp system) 5) Please make an entry for each unit, even if it is repeated (e.g., no “3 x 5 Chaos Warhounds”). 6) Please indicate the points cost and Swedish comp penalties associated with each unit. 7) Include a separate section with Swedish comp penalties that are not specific to any one unit. We will contact you as quickly as possible if there are any list discrepancies. Please make our job as easy as possible by submitting a clear and accurate army list! Those who submit clear and error-free army lists will be entered into a separate prize raffle. Sample Army List Jim Graham Wood Elves Generic (-11) 71 Longbows in army (-15) Acorn of the Ages (-15) Moonstone of the Hidden Ways (-3) Hail of Doom Arrow (-2) Standard of Discipline Lords (320 / -40) Spellweaver, Magic Level 4, Lore of Shadows, Acorn of the Ages Heroes (142 / -13) Glade Captain, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Hail of Doom Arrow, Dragonhelm (120 / -5) Spellsinger, Lore of Beasts, Moonstone of Hidden Ways Core (261 / -4) 18 Eternal Guard, Full Command, Shields, Standard of Discipline (160 / -7) 10 Glade Guard, Musician, Trueflight Arrows (160 / -7) 10 Glade Guard, Musician, Trueflight Arrows (160 / -7) 10 Glade Guard, Musician, Trueflight Arrows Special (135 / -3) 3 Treekin (85 / -3) 5 Wardancers, Champion (85 / -3) 5 Wardancers, Champion (135 / -7) 3 Warhawk Riders (178 / -9) 6 Wildriders, Musician, Shields (178 / -12) 6 Wildriders, Musician, Shields Rare (50 / -5) Great Eagle (50 / -5) Great Eagle (140 / -11) 7 Waywatchers (140 / -18) 7 Waywatchers Total: 2499 points, -205 Swedish (9.5 => 10) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 What are some nice hotels near dark tower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 What are some nice hotels near dark tower? Best Western Lakeway Inn is right across the street from the Bellingham Guesthouse Inn , and both are nearby Dark Tower. I'd suggest not going out to near the airport or Meridian for a hotel, as they're pretty far away. However if you meant NICE hotel, you've got cash to burn, and want to make a romantic weekend out of it, then the Fairhaven Village Inn is pretty awesome, as are the Chrysalis and the Bellwether . Also - a note about parking - there should be plenty of parking out in front of Dark Tower on Saturday morning - all of the metered spots in the parking lot are fair game, and parking is free on the weekends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Awesome, thank you. Yeah, I'm not looking for the cheap spots. My wife's coming up with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Question for the third scenario: If I have a unit which consists of a single model does it count as a scoring model? Examples would be: 1) Characters 2) Bloodwrack Medusa - It has a unit size of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mekhet Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 So...now that 50%/50% lords and heroes is in the official GW FAQ does the "no End Times rules" still apply re: lords and heroes? Or should we just take Swedish as it is (as updated by the time lists are due) and roll with it.I for one would much prefer the extra bit of wiggle room in lords allowance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 That Ogre thingee seems to be a weird exception to the BRB. Randomize the cannonball. No 50% Lords and Heroes, as Swedish does not yet take it into account. Same thing with the new Nurgle stuff, for the same reason. Scenario synopses and list submission instructions should be out tonight! Been plugging along at some of the swag, and there should be some cool stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Question for the third scenario: If I have a unit which consists of a single model does it count as a scoring model? Examples would be: 1) Characters 2) Bloodwrack Medusa - It has a unit size of 1 Yup. Those count as scoring. Basically, anything that could go into a building counts as scoring. Re:End Times, sorry, no 50% Lord/hero allowance. the 10/16 Swedish update will be the one used for the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thank you for the quick response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Just to be clear, the Bloodwrack is monstrous infantry, and not a monster, correct? If MI, then what I said above stands. A character on a steed would not count as scoring. Basically, anything classed as infantry or monstrous infantry is good to go in #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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