Dark Elf Tournament List

[MexicanNinja]

I've been working on my Dark Elf tournament list and have come up with a unique and extremely new(ish) 2,500 point army list.  Next to each unit will be the current swedish comp score (if you see that I miscalculated something, please let me know in a reply and why I miscalculated something for the comp score)

 

Generic Comp Score (-20):

Dawnstone -3

Dispel Scroll -7

Earthing Rod -5

Ogre Blade -5

 

Dreadlord w/heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, cold one, ogre blade, talisman of preservation, TOTS (-16)

It's not the "unkillable" build of the past but I think this guy can clear out chaff, small units of cavalry, go in for character kills, serve as a support charger, and provide problems to weak enemy flanks

 

Supreme Sorceress w/lore of shadow, level 4 wizard, cloak of twilight, earthing rod (- 40)

Takes on the role of support caster to get off hexes on enemy units, provide a possible threat with mind razor on my dreadspears, and has pit of shades, and a possible "cannon ball" for sniper kills.  She also has the freedom of running around the battlefield solo style with the 3++ vs shooting and magic and with the earthing rod can help resist the urge of a dimensional cascade

 

Sorceress w/lore of dark magic, level 2 wizard, dispel scroll (-11)

She takes on the form of either a supporting caster or damage caster (depending on the spells rolled) and acts as the "scroll caddy"

 

Master w/bsb, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, sword of might, enchanted shield, dawnstone (-15)

My standard BSB build and a model to get some CR in close combat

 

Master w/repeater crossbow, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, dark pegasus, obsidian blade (-13)

He's built for multiple roles; war machine hunting, chaff clearing, lock down a unit of knights (he'll get the 2+ against most knight units and they get no armour saves), support charges, redirects, etc

 

10 Dark Riders w/musician, standard bearer, shields, repeater crossbows (-15)

No explanation needed

 

10 Dark Riders w/musician, standard bearer, shields, repeater crossbows (-17)

No explanation needed

 

22 Dreadspears w/musician, standard bearer (-6)

The bunker for my level 2 and also holds the bsb.  In the games I get mind razor this unit could be a serious threat at the right moments in time.  They also work as the anvil in turns I get supporting charges from the chariots or other units.  I know they aren't the best anvil but like I said, mind razor makes this unit extremely good and with the hex's offered through lore of shadow they could stand up to many things.

 

5 Shades w/great weapons (-9)

A great tool to use as needed through the use of scouts.  Great for clearing chaff, possible war machine hunters, I could also sacrifice them to go in for a possible wizard kill.

 

Cold One Chariot (-6)

Mainly used to support my dreadspears

 

Cold One Chariot (-9)

Mainly used to support my dreadspears

 

Reaper Bolt Thrower (-7)

It's the love-hate relationship for all dark elf players.  It has the potential to clear chaff, take down a few ranks before close combat starts, or kill some models with armour.  However, we all know how these things work so it's more or less just here for hopeful fire support.

 

War Hydra w/fiery breath (-12)

Used to protect a flank, support my dreadlord, or sacrifice itself for a possible wizard kill

 

5 Doomfire Warlocks (-24)

No explanation needed

 

Bloodwrack Medusa (-2)

This is a tricky one.  The medusa does have many purposes but is hard to keep alive and hard to use effectively due to being frenzied with a LD 2.  However, it can kill knights with the shooting attack and can still clear chaff, go in for a wizard kill, and still act as a support charger.  It also has the benefits from ASF and MP.  This can also be used to help protect my level 4 by acting as a re-director.

 

This is the new Dark Elf list I am going to be playing with for a while and I like what it has.  It has a lot of potential threats and I am not relying on any one unit to do something tremendous for me through out the game.  I also like that this list makes me "break" my normal builds and is starting to push me towards a different direction.  I think this list has potential and would/could provide my opponents with a challenging game.

 

Final Comp Score = 7.8

[valourunbound]

I know next to nothing about dark elves, but I can read.

And my reading says that for a unit of Shades you only subtract one point for the unit if it has great weapon, not one point per model if they have great weapons. so that brings your list up 4 points of a new total of 7.8. Yeah, huge difference.

 

Regarding the list, all I can say is that it looks unassuming as you have no one killer unit, but that works in your favor, because than opponents won't know what to shoot. And when they do shoot something, you have other backup units to perform the same role. 

 

Responding as the Chief Warlord of the Wizarding Skyrats, the only thing I really have to fear is a combo charge. And with so many small(ish) units, the only way I'm going to be able to stop your combo charge is if I can shoot/magic enough of your units. Meaning that I have to keep my lightning-producing models alive. You have so many ways to kill my cannons. Peg Master, Mounted Lord, Dark Riders, Shades. I won't be able to stop all of them. My doomwheel is a little bit more safe (except from itself).

 

Basically, I think a game vs this list would be very entertaining. You're playing tag with my cannons, and I'm trying to stop you. I like it.

 

Also, a thought. You have the Cloak of Twilight on your SS, which you intend to keep in your dreadspears. I know that you mentioned the flexibility as your reason for taking it. I think that the flexibility is overrated and the 50 points can be better used elsewhere. I think that your SS will be perfectly safe inside your dreadspears, and by the time she wants to leave, the enemy won't be able to kill her.

[MexicanNinja]

Good catch on the shades, thank you.

 

As for the SS, she's not going in the dreadspears. She is built to run solo with the CoT. I can keep her within range for a LOS roll and if that fails she has the 3++. The same applies to the dreadlord, if I run him within LOS range of one of my cav units.

 

The other bonus of running the SS that way is so that I can get the LOS roll for her and I keep the unit safe from miscasts she may get as well.

[McNathanson]

Great list, definitely a step down in overt "win" from the others I've played/seen (Cauldron + CoKs, Malekith, Dragon + Manticore are all on paper a lot more scary).  Kudos on running a block of Dreadspears.   They are (without buffs or help) weaksauce, but you can definitely make them do work.

 

That said, with this list, I think you will be challenging yourself to control the combats which is a fun thing, and if you can do it (winning the redirector war, getting your combo charges in, and holding their support units out, etc.) you will definitely be able to win.  The list still has plenty of teeth.

 

I'm curious how you feel about it after a few games... get some and write back!

PS: I love the Medusa model, I'm trying to work one into my list too but can't find points because I changed my Manticore riding Master to a Dragon riding Lord... oh Army Builder, my distracting mistress...

[MexicanNinja]

Great list, definitely a step down in overt "win" from the others I've played/seen (Cauldron + CoKs, Malekith, Dragon + Manticore are all on paper a lot more scary).  Kudos on running a block of Dreadspears.   They are (without buffs or help) weaksauce, but you can definitely make them do work.

 

That said, with this list, I think you will be challenging yourself to control the combats which is a fun thing, and if you can do it (winning the redirector war, getting your combo charges in, and holding their support units out, etc.) you will definitely be able to win.  The list still has plenty of teeth.

 

I'm curious how you feel about it after a few games... get some and write back!

 

PS: I love the Medusa model, I'm trying to work one into my list too but can't find points because I changed my Manticore riding Master to a Dragon riding Lord... oh Army Builder, my distracting mistress...

The only downfall to this army, is that I will have to play the non-engage units as non-engage units.  It's all about manageable wins in late game.  I don't need to be concerned with necessarily destroying an entire unit a turn; however it does help.  If I can take a 30 man unit down to a 15-20 man unit, depending on what the unit is, I feel more comfortable with charging dreadspears at them.  I may even break up one of my 10 man unit of dark riders into 2 units of 5 just to run the double flee.  Yeah, that could be considered a cheesy tactic; however, this army isn't built for sustained combat against big units.

 

At the same time, as much as I hate to say this, my magic is going to be the game changing factor.  If I can get off an initiative hex with a pit of shades....yup, that unit is pretty much toast.  Is that always going to work?  Nope, this is why I decided to add a ton of sacrificial units.  If I can get in and kill the opposing main wizard threat, I'll take the loss of the unit because I just gave myself a huge advantage for my magic phase.  Depending on who/what I'm playing against, I don't have to move most of my army.

[MexicanNinja]

I decided to do a short write up on how I feel about this army pertaining to each phase of the game:

 

Movement Phase- I have a ton of options here.  Solo models taking advantage of getting into prime positions.  Fast Cavlary dancing around the board for setting up all kinds of things (hard cover, re-directs, double flees, etc).  I feel I have a very very strong movement phase.  Everything but the block of spears and bolt thrower can pretty much just pick a spot and go (with a few restrictions on the chariots).  Against other non-engage lists, I can get a ton of threats set up for turn two charges.  Sure, something I toss at them will die, but at least 3 of the 9 units will make the charge into something.  Here's a movement break down:

 

Dreadlord- movement 7" with a march of 14" (solo mode)

2 models with a move of 5" and a march of 10" (solo model)

Master on Dark Peg- solo flyer

3 units with a move of 9" and a march of 18" with fast cav rules for movement

1 unit with a move of 5" and a march of 10" with the skirmisher rules for movement

hydra with a 6"move and 12" march (solo model)

2 chariots with a move of 7"

1 unit with a move of 5" and a march of 10" who is the only unit I have which follows the normal movement restrictions for wheels and crap

 

 

Magic Phase- I don't think much needs to be said about the magic phase.  Lore of Shadow packs a ton of hexes, has a great augment for my dreadspears, and packs some nice direct damage spells.  My level 2 caster then benefits from the lore of shadow hexes with most of the damage dealing spells, and my warlocks always bring a hex and a magic missile.  If I'm playing against a non-engage or heavy chaff army I can get 2 magic missiles (dual doombolts).  Now, I know not to rely on magic but I do understand that magic will change the course of the game at some point.

 

Shooting Phase-  I don't have the best shooting but I sill bring 20 repeater crossbows and a bolt thrower.  The S3 AP shots still do have an impact throughout the course of the game.  That's 20-40 S3 AP shots and either a big bolt or 6 S4 AP shots.  Again, not the greatest but can still clear out chaff, skirmisher, fast cav, and provides a threat to a lot of solo models.  I also have the 4 shots from the medusa which have KB and ingnore armour saves.  With the right used hexes I can start to wreck havoc in my shooting phase.

 

Close Combat Phase- Of all the phases, this could be considered my weakest phase until you put it all together.  Individually, the units aren't going to be a threat to a lot of larger units.  However, once you put all the possible combo charges together, this army has the punch needed to win close combats.  I also have models which can lock units in place on their own.  My dreadlord is more than capable of fighting small units and solo models on his own.  My Master w/Obsidian Blade could charge a unit of knights and go to town with his no armour save attacks and 1+ armour save (again, a well placed hex can make him even that much better).  The hydra is great for fighting weak units.  So, yes, most of my units aren't that much of a threat to many things on their own but this army isn't designed around any one unit needed to win a solo combat.  We can also all agree on what the outcome of a unit fighting the dreadspears augmented with mind razor will be.  I have units which can be sacrificed to go in and kill a specific model (mainly wizards) or knock a rank or two down before I need to "clean up" with another unit(s).

 

Do I consider this army to be a sure win during my games?  No.  Do I think that I will always get the results posted above during each of my games?  No.  Do I think my opponents have zero change of beating this army?  No.  Am I able to compensate for losses that I'm not counting on happening?  Yes.  Do I have multiple ways to win?  Yes.  Do I have a tool for each job (i.e, war machine hunting, chaff clearing, re-directing, counter charges)?  Yes.

 

I really like what this army has to offer and hope I can bring a fun, tactical, and engaging game for my opponents.

[McNathanson]

Well I'm game for a game as soon as I can get free from work and projects again :)  I'll try to have my Bretonnia army ready to roll!  Maybe next week sometime?  Looking forward to it!!

[MexicanNinja]

Let me know when you're available.  I have the go-ahead from my wife to get more game nights in for my prep for Slamwhich.

[Romes]

I like the idea with the sorc, Also seems like a fairly balanced list overall. One thought could be considering beasts over shadow because 1. for casual games wisens is still good and less gimicky than mindrazor and 2. savage beasts is killer for DE and for swedish games beasts  is much lighter comp than shadow.

 

My concern with this is that in a swedish environment you're starting at a 7.8. That means if you play say a 14, you'll start down 600 points. I'm not sure if the list has the punch to make up that much difference against a 14 that decided to sit on their point bump?

[MexicanNinja]

I really considered beasts but in the end I went with Shadow because of all the great low casting values of the hex's offered by the lore.  I'm not so much relying on getting mind razor as I am all those great hex spells.  Also, if I can get word of pain for my level 2 as well then I can take those high S and/or high T models/units down a notch in the combat productiveness.

 

Yup, the comp score level is going to be a challenge against those lists with a rating of 14; however, I think I have the tools needed to get those points back against the majority of armies I face.  I decided that I like and welcome the challenge that will present to me.  As for armies just sitting on the point bump, that kind of works in my favor for a few reasons.  It means they won't play as aggresive and I can really take advantage of the movement phase and work on those combo charges better.

 

Another thing which is going to be difficult is getting first turn.  I have 11 drops and have to plan for going second with the hopes of going first.

[Distaff]

List looks cool. Is this for  Ham Slamwhich? If so I hope to play you again, I'm that wood elf guy from OFCC with 2 dragons.

 

The only thing i would consider changing are in the magic phase, you're taking a lot of comp hits in that phase currently and you may be able to trim them down a bit.  First, how much has that support mage done in your practice games? I'd imagine its hard to find the power dice for the level 4 of shadow (who probably wants to cast 2 spells at least ), the warlocks, and the support mage for most turns? Dropping her and shifting the scroll to the level 4 could save you 16 points (11 for the mage, 5 for the earthing rod). That would put you into the 10 range (you'd be at a 9.6). I'd expect to see a lot of armies around 10 -12, so you'd have much less of a hill to climb. I know for sure most of the Canadians coming are using this as a master practice and will be building ~12 range.  

 

Alternatively have you considered metal for the level 4? A pair of good buffs, a pair of good hexes, a nice magic missile and a doom spell. Not as great as shadow sure, but it saves you 12 points and still does a decent job of complementing the army. 

[MexicanNinja]

Yup, Slamwhich was the main reason for the list change-up.  Hopefully we'll get paired up again.  I need to make up for all those failed armour and LD tests I had.

 

I haven't used this list at all yet.  However, I used to run a level 4 on death, level 2 shadow, and the warlocks and was casting roughly 3-4 spells a turn.  I don't really use the warlocks to cast spells very often.   I use them to charge crap.  I tried lore of metal many times but just didn't like the outcome I was getting from it.  I only ever plan on getting a single spell through during the magic phase so anything after that is a bonus.

 

As for the comp hit....meh, I'll just have to work even harder for the win and in the event I'm able to pull the big W off then it will be that much more worth the W.

[MexicanNinja]

I played a fantastic game last night agaisnt Fixxer.  If you would like to know what his list was, click the link below:

 

http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/23111-slamwich-skaven-black-hunger-2500/

 

We played scenario 1 from Slamwhich and we pretty much tossed the secondaries out the window (not going to happen again).  This was a weird game with a great result!

 

Skaven had turn 1 and well, did what Skaven do and failed pretty much everything.  Fixxer had really bad dice rolls.  There were 3 failed charges (all on an 8 or less) and misfired his warp lightning cannon (that's all it did, literally misfired three times and blew up on the third).  I then followed up with 3 counter charges and the dice were hot for my charges.  I made 2 charges at 17+.  His right flank collapsed and my left flank was being closed in by an abom, rat ogres, 3 blocks of skaven, general on bonecrusher (he punked 2 chariots), and his BSB.

 

It was a great game and ended up in a draw.  At one point, I sat down, took a sip of my beer, and looked at the table...holy [big bad swear word]!  I completely collapsed his flank and I still didn't put much of a dent in his army.  It was going to be a hard as nails game.

 

I didn't really get to use the medusa to her full potential because there weren't any knights are heavy armoured units.  I have to take a step back from my normal aggresive approach and give myself 2-3 turns of magic and shooting with the majority of my units.  I rushed my warlocks into combat with a slave block and the steadfast just held them in place until my Master came in to help (even then it took 2 rounds of combat to break the steadfast).

 

I know it sucks for opponents when they are faced with a non-engage list; however, this is how most of my army needs to play itself.

 

At any rate, it was a great game and I learned a lot about how my army is supposed to play.

 

Thanks for the phenomenal game, once again, Fixxer.  Maybe in the future we'll stop getting draws and one of us will actually win (as of right now, my Dark Elves and his Skaven have played twice and both resulted in a draw).

[Fixxer]

Really an excellent game MN. 

 

Kind of the opposite of our last game in regards to the shooting phase. my first turn saw my WLC kill 4 of my own rat ogres only to blow up on turn two. I also lost 30 clanrats, a lv2, ratling gun, warpfire thrower, and my jezzails in the bottom of turn 1. Not a good start at all. I still had my other 3 characters, an abom, gutter runners, and a bunch of slaves/ clanrats left, so the game wasnt all lost, It was time to get stingy. 

 

We ground it out for the entire 6 turns to a likely minor win for the DE. THe scenario didnt make much of a difference as our scoring units were either gone or contested. We only had units on 2 quadrants of the battle field and they were all in close proximity.

 

The only reason I would draw this game is the comp difference which would have given me 400 extra points. It just nice to see how difficult it is to completely annihilate an army with a really good start. Like I said the exact opposite happened in our last game where my shooting killed your hydra and cold one chariot and you had fleeing Dark riders due to failed panic tests on the first turn.  

 

An excellent couple of games, cant wait to see what happens the next time Skaven meet Dark Elves.  Thanks MexicanNinja. 

[MexicanNinja]

I played an awesome game with NtK last night.  The best part of it was that I was struggling to kill PEASANTS!  Yeah, go Dark Elves!  What a fun game though.  His list is very solid and provided very little VP unless you can kill his 2 knight blocks and the characters running around with them.  Still, it was a fun game and it helped me learn some more things about my current list.

 

What did I learn?  Just like I posted above, don't charge things so fast and spend a few turns shooting and fleeing around the table to leave gaps in my opponents army.  I had to test out certain situations though, to see how they would play out and see if the results would have been the same which I had in my head.  Of course, it doesn't help when he can't roll armour saves but is able to roll 6++ all game.  His prayer saves were unreal!

 

One of my best parts of the game was when he opened up fire on my 5 shades with 10 peasent bowmen and killed 4 of them.  EPIC!

 

Another awesome Dark Elf moment was when my general decided to be stupid and just stared at a building for a turn.  It happened to be the turn I needed him to get to the middle of the table.  Way to go Dreadlord.....yup, he's dead now!

 

I will say that my dangerous terrain tests were pretty phenomenal.  I had chariots charging through forests and rivers pretty much all game.

 

Again, it was a great game and I enjoyed every minute of it.

 

Thanks for the amazing game NtK!

[Munkie]

Glad the dangerous terrain was kind. But remember dangerous terrain only happens when you march, charge, flee, pursue, or overrun. It's an oft overlooked rule.

 

Contrary to what Oregon Trail might tell you, there is little risk in fording a river with a chariot!

[JMGraham]

We've been playing Swedish comp games locally, and one thing I've noticed is that the VP differential really does make a big difference in how close games are. The extra swing from comp can easily turn what would be a 20-0 beat down to a 15-5 victory or less. I like it a lot so far. I feel like it makes a big difference in making many types of list viable.

[MexicanNinja]

Glad the dangerous terrain was kind. But remember dangerous terrain only happens when you march, charge, flee, pursue, or overrun. It's an oft overlooked rule.

 

Contrary to what Oregon Trail might tell you, there is little risk in fording a river with a chariot!

Yeah, I was charging and fleeing with chartiots through forests and rivers for 5 turns.

[MexicanNinja]

We've been playing Swedish comp games locally, and one thing I've noticed is that the VP differential really does make a big difference in how close games are. The extra swing from comp can easily turn what would be a 20-0 beat down to a 15-5 victory or less. I like it a lot so far. I feel like it makes a big difference in making many types of list viable.

I completely agree, it also forces you to play your army much differently as well.  This is the main thing I am learning with the Swedish comp stuff.  I am a very aggressive player (I like to charge stuff all the time) and I am finding out that isn't the way this is going to work with the army I'm playing.  I really need to take full advantage of my shooting and not get caught up in the charge.

[Munkie]

Yeah, I was charging and fleeing with chartiots through forests and rivers for 5 turns.

Set the chariot to grueling pace then, eh?

 

I had been playing that rule incorrectly for such a long time that I've made it my mission to stamp that out.

[McNathanson]

Great game MN.  I always enjoy playing you.  You are such a great sport even when things don't go your way... it makes it really fun to play you no matter what the outcome is.

 

Your army is capable but definitely requires a bit more finesse than previous lists I've faced, because you don't have a unit that can just take down whatever it fights.  You have to rely on neutralizing my hardest units with shooting/magic/redirection, and combo-up with your hitty units to break though my line.  Also I think the Hydra is important to play conservatively.  Protect him in the early game and get him into the right combats at full Wounds and he will absolutely dominate.

 

It was my first game with my Bretonnia army since 7th edition years ago, and since changing to a peasant-heavy list... I wasn't sure whether the design was going to work as planned at all.  On the plus side, I think I validated the design: the army played as I envisioned (at least in this matchup), with the archers laying down some chaff suppression, getting in the way of blitzing units, and generally clogging things up for you.  And the Men at Arms were heroic, but I think that had as much to do with bad impact hit rolls as anything else :)

 

I also learned a few things about my magic phase and I'm revising my list slightly to account for it.  I need more sustained combat capability (a Paladin with Ogre blade or at least Sword of Might).  

 

Finally, if I can paint a few more units of archers, I might drop my 2nd Lord character (the HKB guy, as much as everyone praises him, just isn't my style) and add 'em.  Or, alternately I might get a 2nd block of MAA going... that would be pretty awesome looking, but without the ward I think they will be disappointing.  But first things first I need to finish painting my current models :)

 

Thanks for the fun time and let's do it again soon!

[MexicanNinja]

I would try using the heartwood lance on hkb lord.

[MexicanNinja]

I played two games against valour yesterday.  Two great games were played.  The first game I got beat down pretty soundly.  The second was much closer but the Dark Elves pulled away with a win.  Thanks for the great games valour!  You have a very tough list and have great generalship.

[McNathanson]

What was Valour's army and rough list, if I may ask?

[valourunbound]

Grey Seer

Earthing Rod, Talisman of Preservation

 

Warlord

Shield, Fellblade

 

Chieftain

BSB, Halberd

 

Warlock

LV1, Obsidian... lodestone? MR3

 

Warlock

DoomRocket

 

Plague Priest

Plague Censor, dispell scroll

 

 

50 slaves, musician

50 slaves, musician

 

~25 clanrats, shields, musician, banner

 

Rat dart

Rat dart

 

39 Stormvermin, FC, Razor Standard

 

30 Plague Monks, FC, Banner of the Under-Empire

 

5 Gutter Runners, Poison Slings

5 Gutter Runners, Poison Slings

 

Doomwheel

Doomwheel

WLC

WLC

 

Weighs in at a whopping 3.7 on the Swedish comp. I did not make this with comp in mind, so that's why I got hit so hard.