fluger Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 So, I think if I wanted to play BA, I'd start my framework around this:Captain Karlaen: 1605 Scouts: 60 ptsCCW/BP, Meltabomb5 Scouts: 60 ptsCCW/BP, Meltabomb5 Scouts: 60 ptsCCW/BP, Meltabomb5 Scouts: 60 ptsCCW/BP, Meltabomb5 Scouts: 60 ptsCCW/BP, Meltabomb5 Scouts: 60 ptsCCW/BP, Meltabomb10 Assault Marines: 2002 MeltagunsDrop Pod: Locator Beacon10 Assault Marines: 2002 MeltagunsDrop Pod: Locator Beacon10 Assault Marines: 2002 MeltagunsDrop Pod: Locator BeaconArchangels Sanguine Formation: 860 pts10 Vanguard Vets: 220 pts10 power axes10 Vanguard Vets: 220 pts10 power axes10 Sternguard Vets: 220 pts10 combi-meltasStormraven: 200TL Assault Cannon, TL Multimelta1980 ptsFor those who don't know, Captain Karlaen comes stock with the Strategic Trait that gives me a +1 to seize the initiative and allows me to re-roll reserve rolls (either successful or failure), mostly he ensures that my reserves come in, and when 1220ish points are in reserve, you WANT to make sure they come in quickly! Going from a 66.6% chance to a 88.8% chance is HUGE especially since there should only be 2 rolls (since the formation comes in on a single roll). My thought is that he goes in the Stormraven with the Sternguard. That seems appropriate. Scouts with Furious Charge are amazing for the points. Those little buggers should knock out any rear AV10 vehicle in the game on the charge even without the meltabomb! They are also a threat to light infantry and the like, EXTREMELY useful for their points! With infiltrate and scout and a 5+ roll on seizing, I can put a TON of pressure on my opponent from the outset with these guys. Armies like serpent spam are going to be in trouble since even though the scouts are easy to wipe out, they only have 1 turn of shooting before I pounce on them, and there are a lot of different units!The Assault Marines drop in on turn one and try to nuke a vehicle, and I'll almost assuredly split them up in combat squads. If I go first, I can have 10 little units all in my opponents' grille that all can threaten their vehicles or anything else I want. Turn two, the heavy hitters show up (89% of the time!) as well as more assault marines. The scouts and initial assault marines that are still alive go after whatever they can and try and knock it out. Now there is a crazy amount of threat overload in my opponent's deployment zone and the vanguard vets will absolutely WRECK anything in the game with 4 S6 AP2 attacks each! I'd probably need to mix in some meltabombs with my remaining 20 pts (probably 2 in each squad of vanguard) to help them threaten high AV stuff. Anyway, I love the idea of drop pod assault coming in from scouts guiding it in. The flavor is what I like the and play style is cool. Also, with 91 infantry and 4 vehicle models on the board it is a LOT of guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Scouts with Furious Charge are amazing for the points. Those little buggers should knock out any rear AV10 vehicle in the game on the charge even without the meltabomb! They are also a threat to light infantry and the like, EXTREMELY useful for their points! With infiltrate and scout and a 5+ roll on seizing, I can put a TON of pressure on my opponent from the outset with these guys. Armies like serpent spam are going to be in trouble since even though the scouts are easy to wipe out, they only have 1 turn of shooting before I pounce on them, and there are a lot of different units! Scouts do this just fine without furious charge. They're called krak grenades and scouts are really awesome with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 3 S4 attacks are identical in value against AV10 as a krak grenade. 3 S5 attacks is categorically better. How many attacks does it take to take out AV10 with (assuming WS3)... S4: .666 * .166 = .111 so it takes 27 attacks on average or 9 scouts charging. S6: .666 * .5 = .333 so it takes 9 attacks on average or 9 scouts charging. S5: .666 * .333 = .222 so it takes 13.5 attacks on average or 4-5 scouts charging. Essenitally you HALVE the number of scouts required on a charge to take out an AV10 vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Or put another way, it requires getting nearly a full 10 strong squad of scouts into melee with a tank to kill it. That's 110 pts to kill something of roughly equivalent value. With FC, I can threaten that vehicle with 55 pts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I respect your ideas for sure. I will be using this as the basis for my own list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think I might mix up the Power Weapons in the VV a bit (and maybe the Combi-Weapons for the SG as well), but I like the basic concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 With melta on the dropped assault Marines, and tons of axes you have a lot of AT already. Would storm bolters on the Sternguard be a better choice? Gives some anti-infantry. I'm a lousy list writer so it's an honest question;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think I might mix up the Power Weapons in the VV a bit (and maybe the Combi-Weapons for the SG as well), but I like the basic concept. Sure sure, I was just going with gut-instinct here. I could see putting in a few power mauls for instance. Not sure I'd want or need any other combis though. What I like about sternguard is that they pretty much cover all the other bases (ignores cover shooting, 2+ poison shooting) Maybe a couple plasmas? With melta on the dropped assault Marines, and tons of axes you have a lot of AT already. Would storm bolters on the Sternguard be a better choice? Gives some anti-infantry. I'm a lousy list writer so it's an honest question;) No, stormbolters are REALLY bad on Sternguard as it takes away their ability to use special ammunition. That's pretty much their Raison d'être. They have anti-infantry already built into their special ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Yeah, I was thinking a couple of Combi-Plasmas, just to get a bit more volume of fire in on MCs or 2+ Armour or something. Maybe a Combi-Flamer or two for Overwatch. With the Vanguard, I just think there are some times when you're going to want to have at least a few guys capable of striking at Init. Mauls are probably the best choice for most of those situations, but a Lightning Claw or two (maybe on the Sarge for Challenges) might be worth considering, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 After considering it all I have made my own version of your list. It is really repetitive but I think it could be powerful. BA Elite List Archangels Strike Force: Captain Karlaen: 160 pts Assault Terminators: 5 w/ Hammers and Shields: 225 pts Vanguard Veterans: 10 w/ Jump packs: 220 pts Vanguard Veterans: 10 w/ Jump packs: 220 pts Sternguard Veterans: 10 half w/ combi-plasmas: 270 pts -Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon: 45 pts Archangels Sanguine Formation: 860 pts Vanguard Veterans: 10 w/ Jump packs and power weapons: 220 pts Vanguard Veterans: 10 w/ Jump packs and power weapons: 220 pts Sternguard Veterans: 10 w/ 10 combi-meltas : 220 pts Stromraven: w/ TL Assault Cannon and a TL Multi-melta: 200 pts Total: 2,000 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Wow, so that formation is confirmed as legit. Also, bonus, it has, BUILT IN, the re-roll on reserves for it. So, I don't need Karlaen as my warlord and can opt for a cheaper more versatile one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Requirements: 2 Vanguard Veteran Squads, 1 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 1 Stormraven Gunship Restrictions: All units of Vanguard Veteran and Sternguard Veterans must include 10 models. Vanguard Veterans must be equipped with jump packs. Special Rules: Surgical Strike Force: This Formation’s unit of Sternguard Veterans begins the game embarked upon the Formation’s Stormraven Gunship. The Formation’s Vanguard Veterans must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you can choose to re-roll. On a successful Reserves Roll, all of the units in this Formation arrive from Reserve. 1st Company Armoury: Vanguard Veteran Squads from this Formation can take a single power weapon or lightning claw per model as a free upgrade. Sternguard Veteran Squads from this Formation can take a single storm bolter or combi-weapon per model as a free upgrade. Source: Campaign: Shield of Baal: Exterminatus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 It's a big investment, but if you're willing to build around it, it's a stupidly good deal. Vanguard Vets for 22 Points with Chainswords? Meh. 22 Points each with Power Weapons or Lightning Claws? That's a heck of a bargain. Then you throw in that Sternguard are good anyhow, and give them free Combis and it just gets ridiculous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Hands down the best formation I've seen. Seriously bananas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Something like this: Librarian: 80 Veritas Vitae 10 Scouts: 115 pts CCW/BP, Meltabomb 10 Scouts: 115 pts CCW/BP, Meltabomb 5 Scouts: 60 pts CCW/BP, Meltabomb 5 Scouts: 60 pts CCW/BP, Meltabomb 5 Scouts: 60 pts CCW/BP, Meltabomb 5 Scouts: 60 pts CCW/BP, Meltabomb 10 Assault Marines: 200 2 Meltaguns Drop Pod: Locator Beacon 10 Assault Marines: 200 2 Meltaguns Drop Pod: Locator Beacon 10 Assault Marines: 190 2 Meltaguns Archangels Sanguine Formation: 860 pts 10 Vanguard Vets: 220 pts 10 power weapons 10 Vanguard Vets: 220 pts 10 power weapons 10 Sternguard Vets: 220 pts 10 combi-weapons Stormraven: 200 TL Assault Cannon, TL Multimelta 2000 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I could go another way with this as well, maybe go with a sanguinary priest to join the sternguard... Hmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophecy Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 It is tough to say as if you went combi-plasmas I think the priest is a good option but I really believe in librarians so I would prefer him. Good catch on that reserve thing. I could also change and would take a terminator librarian instead. Is the terminator chaplain ever worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Chaplains are never worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 The advantage of the Sang Priest is that not only does he give them FnP, he also gives them +1 to Initiative. With 2 attacks base and FC and I5, the sternguard are NASTY to deal with for almost everything. Pretty snazzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 That's quite a "eggs, basket, kgo" sort of plan right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I guess? I mean, without rolling dice, I have 40 scouts and 20 assault marines on the board on turn 1 (assuming no casualties, if I'm going second and interceptor etc). That's still a ton of bodies that are scary to a lot of things that could really do work for a while. The big formation in reserve comes in 88.8% of the time on turn 2, and about 98.75% of the time will arrive BY turn 3. Now, that's assuming my opponent doesn't get some reserve manipulation stuff of their own (which I was JUST a victim of), so take with a grain of salt. But, yes, having over half of one's points in reserve AUTOMATICALLY has a potential for some really sad moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Looks pretty squishy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 What is squishy here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psilence Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Look super fun flug :) 100 bodies on the table, with 60 in yo face turn 1 (infiltrate/pods)? Yes please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psilence Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Only thing I could see would be shaving 1 scout squad and getting a fast pod for the stern guard, if a shooting alpha was needed. Not sure if it's legal with the formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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