Guest Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Then again, those plague marines aren't troops without an upgraded lord, so one could argue that the points are just spent in another spot. So, if undivided Iron Warriors isn't going to fly, the other CSM army I've been toying with would be Thousand Sons. Looks really fun, but that stupid GW still hasn't made those CSM psychic powers very clearly written... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Nurgle Lords make some of the better HQ options, tho, so it's not much of a hardship to be required to take one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 NIGHT LOOOOOOOOORDS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 NIGHT LOOOOOOOOORDS!!! Not my thing, sorry LH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 That's okay. I still exultantly yell NIGHT LOOOOOOOOORDS!!! Claw to the sky while doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Welcome to the frustration Pax... Wasted points galore cuz chaos means melee to GW but the morale issues hurt there the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Welcome to the frustration Pax... Wasted points galore cuz chaos means melee to GW but the morale issues hurt there the worst. Sort of. Each army requires a new perspective. Thinking of CSM as mono-god or as undivided may be the fault. Vets of the long war and a stock champion should be good enough to keep them from fleeing via shooting attacks. In assault, it's gonna be about dishing out more initial damage, so you don't lose combat. Though non-fearless models can always afford to lose combat against opponents which can't sweep (terminators, slow and purposeful, super heavy walkers). Loss of combat squads hurts, but most of the CSM doesn't really need large squads. CSM troops likely being kitted for assault anyway. Given the mandatory challenge rules, probably want to lean away from unwieldy weapons on the units with I4+ or without invulnerable saves. Stock 5-man CSM troops unit with power lance+BP, vets of the long war and 4x CCW+BPs, should be decent by itself at 100pts. A shock unit, with no intended staying power. Marks added as needed. For staying power, looking plague marines, thousand sons, or cultists (and zombies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 That totally works now under seventh if you allow lots of detachments but in any limited type realm you are right back to frustrated and choosing regular Marines cuz a 5 man squad similarly equipped is close in cost and better at being throw away but pain to get rid of. Sorry I'm so bitter and trying to save you months to years of heart ache. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 That totally works now under seventh if you allow lots of detachments but in any limited type realm you are right back to frustrated and choosing regular Marines cuz a 5 man squad similarly equipped is close in cost and better at being throw away but pain to get rid of. Explain your better unit at the 5-man objective secured SM level? As I see it, the stock tactical squad has bolters and paired melee weapon access, so on the charge, the stock marines are 2 swings, while the CSM are 3 (if they go the BP+CCW route). The "free" squad leader would sport the same as a vet sarge, but that's it. Vets of long war grants hatred for CSM infantry against other marines, which improves odds to hit with both normal melee attacks and krak grenades in assault. You are correct that upon losing assault, the CSM are more likely to flee and get swept, but the vets of the long war makes them ld 9 without the champion, which isn't too lacking. Remember, they need to lose assault to be tested, and even there, they need fail morale and lose that sweep test. Odds to fail morale checks can be found here: http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/tech_reports/2_dice_rolls.htm#.VP-6o-GTLgY They'd have to lose by most of the squad in a turn before the leadership test started failing most of the time. Even then, the sweep move requires the opponent to roll higher than the die rolled by you. If stock CSM vs stock SM, they both have initiative 4, so it is, effectively, an unmodified die roll. It's only when you fail this test, where you die. So, let's say they destroy your unit in melee and you flee and are caught. SM really aren't much better off in this situation, especially if kept at the 100pt, 5 man unit size. Sorry I'm so bitter and trying to save you months to years of heart ache. You are fine. I've done enough 40k armies to know that any army can make you bitter with enough lacking GW support/codex creep. Even the SM feel it sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Comes down to cost, I like my throw aways cheap. Marines 80 points combi sarge, special of choice ignored cuz same cost for both. Chaos 100 the way you equipped plus a combicombi. You only save five points dropping the veteran thing. So over 5 squads you have a whole extra squad and those squads have to be killed to the man and are perfectly usable after rallying. I suppose if chaos marines had a viscous rally and got to be normal when rallying like the loyals I could accept the other risks... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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