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Circular Debates over Assault Rules - Was: New C:SM Stuff


pretre

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Wasn't being sarcastic. I've certainly had opponents that insist on only using the physical rules. And it is true that the GW FAQs rarely answer questions asked.

 

Opponents will insist on all sorts of things- I've had people insist that the "hitting vehicles in melee" table granted cover saves and that you couldn't shoot a Rapid Fire weapon if you moved. The GW FAQs are official rules statements by the company- if someone wants to ignore them then they can, but only in the same sense that they can ignore any rule in the game, as neither GW nor their opponent have the ability to compel them to follow the rules.

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Opponents will insist on all sorts of things- I've had people insist that the "hitting vehicles in melee" table granted cover saves and that you couldn't shoot a Rapid Fire weapon if you moved. The GW FAQs are official rules statements by the company- if someone wants to ignore them then they can, but only in the same sense that they can ignore any rule in the game, as neither GW nor their opponent have the ability to compel them to follow the rules.

Agree that opponents insist on all sorts of things, but I don't think that players which refuse to use supplements (like FAQs) are in the same boat as players that refuse to read the rules.

 

Players which insisted on printed rules used to be much more present in the days prior to cell phone internet. This is probably still true in areas with horrible internet service.

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Gw FAQ is raw, and are not the same supplemental category as is farsight enclave is to tau codex

I was thinking more of the word "supplement" not a specific product line.

 

 

sup·ple·ment
noun
noun: supplement; plural noun: supplements
ˈsəpləmənt/
1.
something that completes or enhances something else when added to it.

The FAQ is a supplement to the BRB.

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Guest Mr. Bigglesworth

I understand your context. I disagree it is too broad. FAQ is a clarification of the rulebooks.

 

I don't need a definition, as I didn't say FAQ are not supplements. But to use your post. FAQ are supplements complete the rulebooks. Supplemental codices enhance the parent codex.

 

They categorical different and FAQ is not optional, as it officially clarifies needed rules confusion.

 

Wow this codex is thick with options with squads and formations.

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They categorical different and FAQ is not optional, as it officially clarifies needed rules confusion.

So an opponent cannot refuse to use material not present? It is reasonable to insist that rules which are found not in the rulebook, the codex, or any of the physical books within your store are actually non-optional rules that your opponent must follow?

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Guest Mr. Bigglesworth

So an opponent cannot refuse to use material not present? It is reasonable to insist that rules which are found not in the rulebook, the codex, or any of the physical books within your store are actually non-optional rules that your opponent must follow?

Your argument again is broad and pointless to refute. How garage hammer player plays is not worth arguing about. Name a tournament that disallows the he FAQ or at very list doesn't have their own FAQ. Supplement codex, have been banned or reduce is usage.

 

Arguing what a garage hammer player does as a broad valid point is pointless as a garage hammer player can do what ever the [big bad swear word] they want ;)

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Your argument again is broad and pointless to refute. How garage hammer player plays is not worth arguing about. Name a tournament that disallows the he FAQ or at very list doesn't have their own FAQ. Supplement codex, have been banned or reduce is usage.

 

Arguing what a garage hammer player does as a broad valid point is pointless as a garage hammer player can do what ever the [big bad swear word] they want ;)

I think you are taking me more seriously than I am taking me.

 

All I said is that some opponents of mine in the past have insisted on not using the FAQs. Then you guys jumped on me and insisted it would ludicrous to do this. So I went with it.

 

I figured I needed to explain this as you seem to be getting upset and that is not my intention.

 

PS: I am pretty sure than pretre and abuse puppy get this and are just having fun with me. I just am not sure if you are actually getting upset, as that is so not my intention.

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Maybe take less extreme and ultimately non defendable positions and we won't end up here? ;)

You say that, but I can keep going. Perhaps you and I have a different definition of "defendable."

 

I just like keeping these things in the realm of debate, not argument (I distinguish argument as including emotion, while debate is just taking sides in an objective disagreement without emotion added in). Or rather, debates are fun, arguments are upsetting.

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Guest Mr. Bigglesworth

Raw is weird and it says you must take 1 -2 core choices 1 auxiliary and up to 3 command. This supersedes the brb, so looks like you have a very different looking army make up.

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Raw is weird and it says you must take 1 -2 core choices 1 auxiliary and up to 3 command. This supersedes the brb, so looks like you have a very different looking army make up.

That's only if you want the Gladius benefits (including full company).
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Ravenguard list with Korvydae that I like: 

 

CAD

Shadow Captain Korvydae:  155

10 Assault Marines:  185
  Jump Packs, 2 Flamers, Meltabombs

10 Assault Marines:  185
  Jump Packs, 2 Flamers, Meltabombs

10 Space Marine Scouts:  134 + 50
  4 Sniper Rifles, 5 CCW/BP, Missile Launcher
  Meltabombs
  Land Speeder Storm:  Multimelta

10 Space Marine Scouts:  130 + 50
  4 Bolters, 5 CCW/BP, Missile Launcher
  Meltabombs
  Land Speeder Storm:  Multimelta

1 Venerable Dreadnought:  115+ 35
  Multimelta
  Drop Pod

10 Vanguard Veterans:  260
  Jump Packs, 2 Power Axes, 2 Power Mauls
  4 Meltabombs

Storm Talon:  115
  Skyhammer ML

Storm Talon:  115
  Skyhammer ML

10th Company Formation:  

5 Space Marine Scouts:  70 + 50
  5 Shotguns, Meltabombs, Combi-Grav
  Land Speeder Storm:  Multimelta

5 Space Marine Scouts:  70 + 50
  5 Shotguns, Meltabombs, Combi-Grav
  Land Speeder Storm:  Multimelta

10 Space Marine Scouts:  115
  5 Bolters, 5 CCW/BP, Meltabombs

10 Space Marine Scouts:  115
  5 Bolters, 5 CCW/BP, Meltabombs


1999 pts

 


Not even remotely sniffing top tier, but I like how it would play Maelstrom and I like the early game threat of it. 

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Guest Mr. Bigglesworth

assault marines are still kind of junk. It would give you a good first few turns, where you might be able to create a strong lead.

 

It is arguable that a storm is better than a razor because of jink and mobility. But scouts are just so squishy.

Would be fun.

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It is arguable that a storm is better than a razor because of jink and mobility. But scouts are just so squishy.

Would be fun.

In the fluff, PA marines can ride in the LS storms too.

 

Storms, unless changed, are BS3 and have non-TL weapons, so they really have accuracy issues over the razors. That said, I do love the LS storms.

 

I will also note that being opentopped means they tend to explode more often. Had a really bad game where I did more damage with exploding storms than with the rest of my army. It was a fair amount of damage, because my opponent had nothing but daemonettes so he really had to encircle those storms in assault to destroy them. Mind you, this was a previous edition where rending was ap2 in melee against vehicles.

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In the fluff, PA marines can ride in the LS storms too.

 

Storms, unless changed, are BS3 and have non-TL weapons, so they really have accuracy issues over the razors. That said, I do love the LS storms.

 

I will also note that being opentopped means they tend to explode more often. Had a really bad game where I did more damage with exploding storms than with the rest of my army. It was a fair amount of damage, because my opponent had nothing but daemonettes so he really had to encircle those storms in assault to destroy them. Mind you, this was a previous edition where rending was ap2 in melee against vehicles.

Scouts have marine statlines and storms are BS 4

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