pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Page 9 is pretty clear that units are made of models, or a model. If your IC joins a unit, that means he is one of the models in the unit. If the assault restrictions say a unit cannot assault after arriving from deep strike, and any of the models in that unit did arrive from deep strike, then saying the unit didn't arrive from deep strike is just a lie. A unit is a collection of models, but there is a distinction between model and unit in the rules. You might have seen it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 On a side note, how does your stance apply to units made entirely of ICs? It is completely within the rules to do this. How does one determine the original unit? In example, if an IC deepstrikes and joins another IC already on the table, can they assault? How about if one disembarks a transport (without assault vehicle)? Disembark is by model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Disembark is by model. Okay, so my captain disembarks his rhino and joins a chappy who's been just standing there (probably lost in prayer). Can they assault? Or rather, which is the unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Okay, so my IC disembarks his rhino and joins a chappy who's been just standing there (probably lost in prayer). Can they assault? Or rather, which is the unit? No, disembark is restricted by model. Neither. They are a unit together. Check out the IC rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 No, disembark is restricted by model. Neither. They are a unit together. Check out the IC rules. Right....AND THE SAME RULES GOVERN JOINING AN ASSAULT SQUAD! They are a unit together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Right....AND THE SAME RULES GOVERN JOINING AN ASSAULT SQUAD! They are a unit together. Exactly. You're proving my point. The reason the two IC's can't assault is one of them disembarked, which checks whether you can assault by model. A model disembarked, no assault. If the two IC's had one that deep struck and one that didn't, they could assault. They are a unit together and the unit didn't deep strike; the unit can assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Deep strike is by unit, not model. Disembark and Heavy Weapon is by model. I've posted this multiple times now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 If the two IC's had one that deep struck and one that didn't, they could assault. They are a unit together and the unit didn't deep strike; the unit can assault. This really works in your head? So we have two units of ICs. One can't assault and the other can. They join together in the movement phase and now both models assault as a new unit? Even if this is correct, which I am positive it isn't, if someone tried this, I'd quit - at best. This is a completely unreasonable interpretation of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Deep Strike: "In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn." Heavy Weapons: "Models that shoot with Heavy weapons in the Shooting phase cannot charge in the ensuing Assault phase." Disembarking: "After disembarking, models can manifest their psychic powers and either shoot or Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, counting as having moved that turn, but they cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase." Go to Ground: "A unit that has Gone to Ground cannot move, Run or charge." etc, so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I need to tag out, or I need pretre to tag out. Does someone else understand this and can explain it to me/him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 This really works in your head? So we have two units of ICs. One can't assault and the other can. They join together in the movement phase and now both models assault as a new unit? Even if this is correct, which I am positive it isn't, if someone tried this, I'd quit - at best. This is a completely unreasonable interpretation of the rules. That's what the rules say. I may not like it, but that's what they say. I think this interpretation is the most debateable, but the others are much more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 That's what the rules say. I may not like it, but that's what they say. I think this interpretation is the most debateable, but the others are much more clear. Okay, so given our "social contract" in 40k. How is this one played? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Okay, so given our "social contract" in 40k. How is this one played? The social contract is largely irrelevant to RAW discussions. In a real game, I wouldn't do it. Again, what I would or would not do largely has nothing to do with RAW. There are a great many RAW things that I, and many others, skip during games or choose not to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 The social contract is largely irrelevant to RAW discussions. In a real game, I wouldn't do it. Though RAW is largely irrelevant to playing 40k, if you haven't noticed... Can you clarify "I wouldn't do it"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Though RAW is largely irrelevant to playing 40k, if you haven't noticed... Can you clarify "I wouldn't do it"? I have said, now at least three times in this thread, that I would not use these corner rules interactions (joining ICs and assaulting from deep strike, joining IC's and assaulting from reserves, etc) without a clear FAQ ruling. I don't know how to be any clearer about this. In my games, again I have been very clear about this in my time on these boards, I do not use unfavorable rules interactions that are not faq'd/commonly agreed upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 lol at title change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Well, I'm done with this one. I wish it could have come to a conclusion, but an impasse will do, I suppose. I agree that we disagree and I'm happy you've no intentions to try any of this in real game. Thank you very much for you participation (Pretre, Necrontyr, AbusePuppy, Fluger and a few others). See you on another thread. EDIT: Mod, please close this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thread Lock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thread Lock? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I declare myself the winner of this debate. Please lock the thread now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbitron Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 At over 750 replies, this is the largest thread in the 40k forum btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 At over 750 replies, this is the largest thread in the 40k forum btw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourSpelur Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Your thread is still open so I let myself in, hope you don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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