pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 But walkers can fire overwatch, as can longstrike and maybe a few others. Imperial knights have a detachment that allows them to overwatch too. Well, if they pass the morale check (since they are fearless) they can't overwatch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Exactly they just flat lose overwatch if targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 4 mms make it a null point for most targets. The bolter squad is what is doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 4 mms make it a null point for most targets. The bolter squad is what is doing it. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think mcs suffer the most as they are most likely to weather the storm. And a lot of mcs have template weapons and lose their wall of death overwatch protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 If it doesnt have a ld stat it does not take test. So it cant fail or pass. This is why dreads loved mindshackle scarbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 If it doesnt have a ld stat it does not take test. So it cant fail or pass. This is why dreads loved mindshackle scarbs I thought it was true, but couldn't find it. EDIT: Bottom right of page 78, yeah, vehicles simply don't test. No mention about auto-passing, they just don't test. On a funny side note, in last paragraph of the "assault results" section, says non-Walker vehicles can actually win assaults and cause enemy models to flee, if they can somehow score better in the assault phase.... Maybe a banner? I gotta try this one now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 If it doesnt have a ld stat it does not take test. So it cant fail or pass. This is why dreads loved mindshackle scarbs Agh, I was wrong. They aren't fearless. "Vehicles, Leadership and Morale It is assumed, in all cases, that the crew’s faith in their vehicle, and its considerable armour plating, is absolute. Therefore, vehicles never take Morale checks or Leadership tests. Any occasional lapses that do occur are represented by Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results on the Vehicle Damage table." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Agh, I was wrong. They aren't fearless. "Vehicles, Leadership and Morale It is assumed, in all cases, that the crew’s faith in their vehicle, and its considerable armour plating, is absolute. Therefore, vehicles never take Morale checks or Leadership tests. Any occasional lapses that do occur are represented by Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned results on the Vehicle Damage table." Lol. made the same miskake too, though I beat you in posting it by 1 whole minute..... I thought it was true, but couldn't find it. EDIT: Bottom right of page 78, yeah, vehicles simply don't test. No mention about auto-passing, they just don't test. On a funny side note, in last paragraph of the "assault results" section, says non-Walker vehicles can actually win assaults and cause enemy models to flee, if they can somehow score better in the assault phase.... Maybe a banner? I gotta try this one now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 So, question I had: Demi-companies award a use of the Tactical doctrine. The Gladius formation allows sub-formation rules while adding its own. So if I have 2 demi-companies in a battle company, do I have 1 Assault 2 Tactical 1 Devastator doctrine, or do I have 1 assault 3 Tactical 1 Devastator (that's one per demi-company). Each one, by the wording, affects _all_ demi-companies you purchase. If so, Ultramines would get a whopping 2-4-2. That's . .vaguely obscene in my list. If you have one or more Demi-Companies, you get one extra use of Tactical Doctrine. Same with the extra uses of all three from the Gladius; if you've got two Gladius Formations, that's still only one extra use of each. Still puts an Ultramarine Gladius at 2-3-2, which is pretty scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I believe Pretre is correct about ICs that join unit would charge too. If we all agree ICs can join a unit in that formation. then by the rules he would have to charge too. Models in the formation gain its bonuses, including the ability to assault the turn they arrive from reserve. ICs that join a unit are part of that unit, but do not automatically gain the unit's rules unless stated otherwise. (For example, joining an IC to a squad that has Furious Charge from a formation does not automatically give that IC Furious Charge.) If some models in a unit are able to assault but others are not, the unit is unable to assault (because, unlike shooting and moving, a whole unit makes an assault, not just parts of it.) Q.E.D. a unit from the formation with an IC joined to it cannot launch an assault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortland Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Abusepuppy I understand that logic but those are specifically USRs which need to explicitly say that the rule is passed on to the squad. In this case it is a formation bonus to the unit not a USR granted by the formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Abusepuppy I understand that logic but those are specifically USRs which need to explicitly say that the rule is passed on to the squad. In this case it is a formation bonus to the unit not a USR granted by the formation. Got a quote for this one? Like where it says Universal Special Rules instead of just Special Rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 So, looked it up. The term USR is gone from the BRB. Page 156, just Special Rules, kinda surprised me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 See that the grey area. Its not a unit special rule its a formation special rule that is given to anyone in that unit that is a part of it. If a IC joins that unit then he is part of that unit that gets a special rule from a formation. but like I said this is open to much debate. I can not find anywhere that said ICs that join formations do not get formation special rules only about unit special rules. Shrug just my .75 cents - inflation= 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadaver2k Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 So can someone with the codex let me know how much a storm talon with assault cannon and skyhammer middle cost? Also three dev centurions with grav-cannons and chest missiles. Thank you please! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Dev Cents with Grav are the same, except you don't have to pay the 10 Points to upgrade to a Vet Sarge if you don't want to. Storm Talon got 10 Points cheaper with any upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 Reading the formation it is pretty specific on who gets the charge from reserves... Assault squads from this formation. It isn't "units of" or "consisting of" or is very specifically assault squads. No mention of the unit only the squad from the formation. I'm going worth abuse puppy nothing there gives the rule to the attached character or even the whole unit, just the assault squad itself gets the rule which would then trigger it as a special rule which the IC doesn't specifically get so no fancy reserve charging character shenanigans. My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 See that the grey area. Its not a unit special rule its a formation special rule that is given to anyone in that unit that is a part of it. If a IC joins that unit then he is part of that unit that gets a special rule from a formation. but like I said this is open to much debate. I can not find anywhere that said ICs that join formations do not get formation special rules only about unit special rules. Shrug just my .75 cents - inflation= 2 cents As I said: only models that are in a formation gain the formation's benefits. I don't really see how you can argue otherwise; if my formation gives twin-linked to all its units, having a squad ride inside a tank does not make the tank twin-linked because it is not a part of the formation, nor is an IC that joined the squad. Joining a squad that is in the formation does not make you part of the formation- otherwise you would have a unit that was part of, say, the Skyhammer formation as well as a Combined Arms Detachment, which is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 On a different note, I was flipping through the pages of shiny painted models, and I don't recognize that Terminator Captain on Pg.106. Was he limited edition, or is that a conversion, or might it be an hint at another upcoming release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 On a different note, I was flipping through the pages of shiny painted models, and I don't recognize that Terminator Captain on Pg.106. Was he limited edition, or is that a conversion, or might it be an hint at another upcoming release? He's the cap from Strike Force Ultra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 As I said: only models that are in a formation gain the formation's benefits. I don't really see how you can argue otherwise; if my formation gives twin-linked to all its units, having a squad ride inside a tank does not make the tank twin-linked because it is not a part of the formation, nor is an IC that joined the squad. Joining a squad that is in the formation does not make you part of the formation- otherwise you would have a unit that was part of, say, the Skyhammer formation as well as a Combined Arms Detachment, which is illegal. I'll drop this debate sept for one thing in your example a tank dedicated or not is never considered part of the unit. But this topic is old time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 So, just since we're talking about it: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/652710.page A debate on the issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 As I said: only models that are in a formation gain the formation's benefits. I don't really see how you can argue otherwise; if my formation gives twin-linked to all its units, having a squad ride inside a tank does not make the tank twin-linked because it is not a part of the formation, nor is an IC that joined the squad. Joining a squad that is in the formation does not make you part of the formation- otherwise you would have a unit that was part of, say, the Skyhammer formation as well as a Combined Arms Detachment, which is illegal. Counterpoint: The IC doesn't get/need the special rules. Your example, all units in a formation get twin-linked. An IC joins a unit from that formation. Does the unit still get twin-linked? Yes. The unit does not lose the special rule because an IC is part of the unit. The unit still benefits from the formation's benefits. Also, transport vs IC is a bad comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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