pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Combat squad and hold back two assault units for turn 2 can be nice. Or even for maelstrom points. Keep in mind you can't hold back parts of the formation. You have to arrive all or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks for the pic! Also, am I missing something, or do the Suppressing Fusillade and Leave No Survivors Rules not have any stipulation that they only work on the Drop Turn? Because it looks to me like only First the Fire, then the Blade is actually restricted like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Thanks for the pic! Also, am I missing something, or do the Suppressing Fusillade and Leave No Survivors Rules not have any stipulation that they only work on the Drop Turn? Because it looks to me like only First the Fire, then the Blade is actually restricted like that. Yep. So if one marine in the dev squad is alive, you can force G2G again and no overwatch. :) And Assaults get to assault with rerolls again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 OK, this formation was clearly written by someone who was high on Meth, Crack, PCP, and Imperial Propaganda ;) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 It's glorious filth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 OFCC Doubles Tournament. Two Drop Lists vs Two Drop Lists for 4 Rounds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Point differences I noticed Reductions: Combis for terminators down a point Teleport homers 5 less Cap Sicarous down 10 Chap Grimaldus down 35 Command down 10 Centurion assault down 5/model and vet sarge is optional Stern guard down 10 Dread weapons went down 5-10 Termies down 5/model Assault squad same though no jet packs for same as standard marine so you can get boost of free dedicated. Attack bike down 5 Speeders down 5 and storm 10 Talon weapon upgrades down 10-20! Certurions down 5 a model, sarge optional, grav up 5 and las down 5 Vindicator down 5 Increases: Tech marines up 15 Wow so only one model really went up in cost. So looks like to me power levels are creeping down in cost. Many point reductions seemed necessary, some seem a bit extreme. Talon dropping in points and same with command, especially when command can gain Obj secured. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Increases: Tech marines up 15 Note that he is also improved significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Also, am I missing something, or do the Suppressing Fusillade and Leave No Survivors Rules not have any stipulation that they only work on the Drop Turn? Because it looks to me like only First the Fire, then the Blade is actually restricted like that. Wow, missed that one. Nasty option. Though, I suppose if the opponent can resist, this is leaving you pretty vulnerable as your devastators need to land pretty close if you want to use the assault squads. Seems like a formation where your devastators actually equip melee weapons on their sarge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Wow, missed that one. Nasty option. Though, I suppose if the opponent can resist, this is leaving you pretty vulnerable as your devastators need to land pretty close if you want to use the assault squads. Seems like a formation where your devastators actually equip melee weapons on their sarge. If your opponent has MSU, maybe. Locking down 4 to 8 squads doesn't leave a lot of vulnerability though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 If your opponent has MSU, maybe. Locking down 4 to 8 squads doesn't leave a lot of vulnerability though. You could resist it, plus there are some opponents where being able deny overwatch really doesn't make you want to assault them any more. I think the biggest danger for this formation is that it really locks you into an assault army. I suppose you could just DS backfield and take advantage of the devastator suppression fire. For devastators, I'd look into heavy bolters or missile launchers for this one. Just seems like the act of shooting at them outweighs the damage dealt, so range is going to be more impressive than actual damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 You could resist it, plus there are some opponents where being able deny overwatch really doesn't make you want to assault them any more. I think the biggest danger for this formation is that it really locks you into an assault army. I suppose you could just DS backfield and take advantage of the devastator suppression fire. For devastators, I'd look into heavy bolters or missile launchers for this one. Just seems like the act of shooting at them outweighs the damage dealt, so range is going to be more impressive than actual damage output. Even if you don't assault them, they are G2G (unless fearless) so they are shut down for a turn. Then assault something squishy that might still overwatch you but that you can lock in combat. Why would you take HB/ML? You'd lose the effect of your bolters suppressing another unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Not at all deep strike means board control, just because you have an option to assault doesn't mean you have to assault, dropping dudes on unclaimed objectives or dropping so an assault will pull them off objective are sound tactical strategies, the later is your opponents fault. Bummer can't split combat squads to drop following turn. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Exactly. Those two assault squads can assault anything or nothing. It's a cool deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 I believe Pretre is correct about ICs that join unit would charge too. If we all agree ICs can join a unit in that formation. then by the rules he would have to charge too. Remember, a character that has joined a unit follows all the normal rules for being part ofa unit. If a character is in a unit that charges into close combat, the character charges too,as it is part of the unit. If the character’s unit is locked in close combat, he fights as part ofthe unit. As far as other MSU rules he would not get shred or rending if unit had them, but he has to charge with the unit if it does. If the Formation rules said " only models for this formation" but it does not it saids this unit. If a IC is part of the unit then he does it too. So he may not have the rule but unit does so if it charges he has to too Though I will admit this can be debated as there are rules for and against. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Even if you don't assault them, they are G2G (unless fearless) so they are shut down for a turn. Then assault something squishy that might still overwatch you but that you can lock in combat. Why would you take HB/ML? You'd lose the effect of your bolters suppressing another unit. They are not automatically G2G. It's morale on 3d6, but it can be passed. (maybe slightly above average roll on ld10) There are also a bunch of units immune to G2G status. Bikes, in example, benefit greatly from failing the morale check (as the rule doesn't say they get the passed effect if immune to the failed effect). Logic of the HB/ML over the MM would be the extra range, for the off chance that the opponent brings an army that you just don't want to land and assault. Chaos daemons, for example, are probably not the army you'd want to use this formation with if landing in assault range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Also remember that if a unit is G2G and is joined by a Zealot character, they immediately lose the G2G status and can act normally. This is specifically in the Zealot rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 G2g is to prevent overwatch. Tau are hosed as only their riptide is immune to losing overwatch. Tau also don't have enough overwatch to prevent this from being effective. I imagine tau losing half their supporting fire... I plan to run intercept on all my tau, which is a large tax now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 So, question I had: Demi-companies award a use of the Tactical doctrine. The Gladius formation allows sub-formation rules while adding its own. So if I have 2 demi-companies in a battle company, do I have 1 Assault 2 Tactical 1 Devastator doctrine, or do I have 1 assault 3 Tactical 1 Devastator (that's one per demi-company). Each one, by the wording, affects _all_ demi-companies you purchase. If so, Ultramines would get a whopping 2-4-2. That's . .vaguely obscene in my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 G2g is to prevent overwatch. Tau are hosed as only their riptide is immune to losing overwatch. Tau also don't have enough overwatch to prevent this from being effective. I imagine tau losing half their supporting fire... How is the riptide immune to losing overwatch? G2G prevents overwatch, but the suppression effect is more that it prevents them from moving and forces them to snapfire. In many respects, the threat of this formation would be to have the devastators shoot at some units, then have the assault marines charge different units, in an effort to shut down the enemy shooting phase for next turn. Been wondering, does this one affect vehicles? I mean, vehicles are fearless, so they'd auto-pass, right? So can you prevent walkers (and longstrike) from their overwatch? GW really poorly worded this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Mcs have to ignore gtg so if they fail they will be immune. Sorry should have said can be immune. Yes if they pass. You can but gtg is less likely to happen so to rely on that as the morale result is not an effective strategy. You can try to use it that way, but you will be lucky if that is the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 The overwatch restriction is separate from the G2G condition. Basically, if you fail the morale check, you G2G. If you pass it, you can't fire overwatch. So you have to hope your Riptide or bikes fail the morale check if you want them to fire overwatch. Unless they are fearless, then no overwatch for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 The overwatch restriction is separate from the G2G condition. Basically, if you fail the morale check, you G2G. If you pass it, you can't fire overwatch. So you have to hope your Riptide or bikes fail the morale check if you want them to fire overwatch. Unless they are fearless, then no overwatch for them. So, seriously, can vehicles be affect by this one? BRB says vehicles are fearless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 So, seriously, can vehicles be affect by this one? BRB says vehicles are fearless.... Most vehicles can't fire overwatch, but yes. Vehicle auto-passes the morale check and then can't fire overwatch. Nice catch. edit: it wouldn't affect transported units though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2015 Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Most vehicles can't fire overwatch, but yes. Vehicle auto-passes the morale check and then can't fire overwatch. Nice catch. But walkers can fire overwatch, as can longstrike and maybe a few others. Imperial knights have a detachment that allows them to overwatch too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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