Xavier319 Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Here's my Ork list for for the competitive OFCC ITC Friday event. The main idea is fast assault in durable transports. The fleet hangs out around the Void Shield to keep null deploy, drop pod lists, and heavy grav/haywire lists from making my life un-nice. The big mek goes with the mek gunz, giving them slow and purposeful, and advancing along with the fleet, providing the second layer of protection in a 4++ against shooting. This allows the boyz to close the gap in their largely AV 12 and 13 transports, while punishing the enemy with surprisingly powerful fire. Then the assaults happen. The koptas run around and get points, absorb overwatch, and make a nuisance of themselves. I love this list because it catches people off guard, works like a well-oiled machine, and does not rely on the two main crutches you see in every ork list. The bikestar and (now) buzzgob's stompa. ANd believe it or not, i've never had trouble with wraithknights or stomrsurges. This list mulches superheavies. Let me know what you think. Do you think it would be alright for the Team event? My thought is no, it's too powerful, too optimize, and not in the spirit of the event. Total Points: 2000 WAAAGH!!! Ghazkhull CAD – 672 HQ – 170 Big Mek – 170 Mega Armor, Supa Force Field, Big Boss Pole Elites – 105 Mekboy Junka – 105 Skorcha, Supa Skorcha, ‘Eavy Plates, Reinforced Ram Troops – 135 Slugga Boyz (10) – 100 (In warkopta) Nob, Boss Pole, Power Klaw Grotz – 35 Fast Attack – 65 Warkopta – 65 Skorcha Heavy Support – 197 Looted Wagon – 67 Killkannon Gunwagon – 70 Boarding Plank, Reinforced Ram Big Trakk – 60 Skorcha, Boarding Plank Ork CAD – 1328 HQ – 130 Warboss Gazzuk – 130 Mega Armor, Cybork Body, Lukky Stick Elites – 255 Mega Nobz (3) – 140 (in mek Junka) Boss Pole, Killsaws, Kombi-Skorcha Tankbustaz (5) – 80 Bomb Squig (3) Trukk – 35 Rokkit Launcha, Renforced Ram Troops – 427 Slugga boyz (12) – 112 Nob, Boss Pole, Power Klaw Trukk – 35 Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha Slugga Boyz (10) – 140 (with warboss in big trakk) ‘Ard Armor, Nob, Boss Pole, Power Klaw Slugga Boyz (10) – 140 (in gunwagon) ‘Ard Armor, Nob, Boss Pole, Power Klaw Fast Attack – 90 Deffkopta – 30 Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha Deffkopta – 30 Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha Deffkopta – 30 Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha Heavy Support – 326 Lootaz (5) – 70 Lootaz (5) – 70 Mek Gunz – 186 Kustom Mega Kannon (5), Extra Krew (7), Ammo Runtz (5) Fortification – 100 Void Shield Generator – 100 Extra Void Shield (2) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 1. How do you beat a Wraithknight? (Assume it has either 4+ cover or Invisibility.) You say you "don't have trouble with them," but I'm struggling to understand why. You certainly don't outshoot them- with just S7 and S8 shots, you'll be lucky to put a wound per turn on them most of the time. You certainly don't outfight them- even the MANz will do very little there (remember, the WK kills two of them before they get to swing, so you're looking at 1-2 wounds going through, and then Stomps happen) and any of your other units trying to take it on is... intensely unlikely. Against other superheavies I can see things being better- Knights might be a bit problematic, but AV13 is a lot easier for you than T8 and they tend to lack the support elements that Wraithknights have. But I have trouble grasping how it is you expect to down a Wraithknight run by a good player. 2. You've got a lot of stuff going on here. Most of it is pretty decent, but I wonder how coherent it is overall. You have a wide variety of vehicle profiles (AV10, AV12, AV13) for the enemy to shoot their different guns at and with a combination of both infantry and mechanized units, you're going to get the worst of both worlds when it comes to target priority. Now, certainly hybrid lists exist and do well, but that's when they have a plan to force the enemy's attention and overwhelm them. You have forty Boyz plus miscellaneous other elements (MANz, Lootas, etc) which doesn't exactly translate into a lot of stuff for the enemy to deal with. Which leads into... #3. You don't really have all that much stuff by most measures. A total of, what, sixty infantry of various stripes? Seven vehicles, most of them with middling AVs on the majority of their facings (and including three AV10 chassis.) A smattering of other stuff as well, sure, but at the end of the day attrition is gonna wear you down pretty quickly- and, VSG aside, you're quite vulnerable to Grav weapons since you sprung for 'Ard Boyz on your troop units and you're running lots of vehicles. In short, your list looks to be trying to make Ork generalists, but I don't think that is a direction the codex does well to go in. The list isn't awful- there are plenty of good units in it and obviously the VSG can be a godsend against anyone not really prepared for it- but at the end of the day I'm not really sure what your plan is, even having read you describing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I don't see why this wouldn't fit into OFCC team event at all. Then again, you run Orks so differently than I do that I can't wrap my head around how this works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 1. How do you beat a Wraithknight? (Assume it has either 4+ cover or Invisibility.) You say you "don't have trouble with them," but I'm struggling to understand why. You certainly don't outshoot them- with just S7 and S8 shots, you'll be lucky to put a wound per turn on them most of the time. You certainly don't outfight them- even the MANz will do very little there (remember, the WK kills two of them before they get to swing, so you're looking at 1-2 wounds going through, and then Stomps happen) and any of your other units trying to take it on is... intensely unlikely. Against other superheavies I can see things being better- Knights might be a bit problematic, but AV13 is a lot easier for you than T8 and they tend to lack the support elements that Wraithknights have. But I have trouble grasping how it is you expect to down a Wraithknight run by a good player. 2. You've got a lot of stuff going on here. Most of it is pretty decent, but I wonder how coherent it is overall. You have a wide variety of vehicle profiles (AV10, AV12, AV13) for the enemy to shoot their different guns at and with a combination of both infantry and mechanized units, you're going to get the worst of both worlds when it comes to target priority. Now, certainly hybrid lists exist and do well, but that's when they have a plan to force the enemy's attention and overwhelm them. You have forty Boyz plus miscellaneous other elements (MANz, Lootas, etc) which doesn't exactly translate into a lot of stuff for the enemy to deal with. Which leads into... #3. You don't really have all that much stuff by most measures. A total of, what, sixty infantry of various stripes? Seven vehicles, most of them with middling AVs on the majority of their facings (and including three AV10 chassis.) A smattering of other stuff as well, sure, but at the end of the day attrition is gonna wear you down pretty quickly- and, VSG aside, you're quite vulnerable to Grav weapons since you sprung for 'Ard Boyz on your troop units and you're running lots of vehicles. In short, your list looks to be trying to make Ork generalists, but I don't think that is a direction the codex does well to go in. The list isn't awful- there are plenty of good units in it and obviously the VSG can be a godsend against anyone not really prepared for it- but at the end of the day I'm not really sure what your plan is, even having read you describing it. 1. WKs I've dealt with in a few ways. first off, them having a 4+ cover save due to ruins or other area due to the ITC faq, which is very welcome. SO the mega-kannons are much more of a threat. If we're talking about the double D WK, then clasically what i do is combo-charge it with the warboss's unit and another boy unit, or the tank bustaz. that way the WK cannot really get much done with it's melee attacks. the stomps hurt, but the WB, the nob's PK, and the melta bombs have never failed to impress. it's a little stickier with the fortuned melee WK, but i've done it before. i can also soften it up with the kustom mega-kannons, rokkits, or whatever else. i generally dont rely on the manz for that 2&3. Grav doesn't bother met at all, until I get out from under my shield. And the 4++ all my tanks have makes isolated grav shots much less dangerous. Grav cents suck, and that cant really be delt with other than mitigation. A lot of my tanks have pretty powerful weapons, and generally people will attempt to stop the AV 12 manz and the AV 12 warboss, allowing my other units to encircle, out-flank, and mass charge on turn 2. The vehicles in this list are far far tougher than they look because of the lengths i've gone to to protection them. It's true, I dont have a LOT of boyz, but it tend to get into close combat with almost all of them. Having played orkz for years and years, i found that i get into CC with about as many as i would if i took tons of light tanks and regular boys and suffered intense incoming casualties. when my tanks blow up, i dont lose everone, which is pretty big. The problem with the ork codex, is it doesnt synergize on paper in the way that marines, or tau do. it syngergizes through tactics, and usage. As far as my plan? My plan is based on my enemy. Generally I try and present my opponent with as many poor choices as possible. Granted, a game against something like battle company is going to be rough as hell, and I will probably lose just due to attrition, but that's most everyone. I'd have to play smart and go for the throat. Either way, i tend to use a lot of feints, flanks, and blitzkrieg style tactics. overwhelm a specific point, or hit both flanks and ignore the middle, or split their army in half. I understand that on paper it seems weird, honestly, I do. But I've been really successful with this style of ork list, and I don't really know why. It just seems to work against a lot of competitive lists. I hope my explanations help a little. How would you change it, to make it more competitive? And keep the "speed freeks" vibe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW_Haines Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I love that list. You have some real firepower there its flat scarry. I can see overwhelming a opponent with so many fast targets. and keeping the mek gunz under a V shield is gona make them survive a long time unless drop pods fall in the right places. and the 3 bomb squigs are gona help alot. I play a much more boyz and MNobz list with just trukks so you would past a lot of my army with shooting. TW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 The only thing i wish, is that i could fit in another MANz missile, another squad of tankbustaz, and another grot squad. though i dont want to lose bodies to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.MoreTanks Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 If this is for the singles ITC event we will be doing on Friday, it's 1850pts, not 2000. Just a heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Rock on! Thanks! That shouldnt be too hard to muck with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Can you still take a Waagh Ghazkull CAD under the revised book? Just curious from a TO/list audit standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I read up on it. and from what i can see, you dont have to take the orkurion to take waaagh ghaz stuff. IT talks about being able to take the relics in normal list. correct me if i'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 OKay, so i think I CAN take a Waaagh!! Ghaz CAD. Here's what it says.... "This book contains special rules, Warlord Traits, relics, a Detachment and Formations, Alter of War missions and Tactical Objectives (on the final page) that reflect the fighting style of Waaagh! Ghazgkhull. You can ad the Detatchmet and Formations from this section to an existing army, or use them to field an army from Waaagh! Ghazghkull itself." Emphasis mine, but that's why I think you can take a CAD. Am I interpreting this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 So you cant gain access to the ghazghkull relics unless you take a detachment or formation from the book. The exact wording is: any units from a detachment or formation that can select gofts of gork or mork can select an item from orkimedes kustom gubbinz presented opposite at the points cost shown in addition to the gifts of gork and mork from codex orks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 The book eliminated the great waagh detachment with the 3 troops and 1 elite choice its litterally the big combi detachment and a jumble of formations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 On the plus side though you can snag the fearless banner and the lukky stick on 1 warboss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I know it eliminated the great waaagh CAD. so the part that I highlighted does not mean that you can make a cad out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Im not sure i suppose the great captain A will have to rule it or mr more tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I guess the key words are detachment or formation from this book and since theres no cad option in the book then i suppose no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 The bit you highlighted is saying that you can make up an Army entirely from the Detachments and Formations in the book, as opposed to adding one or two of them on to an existing regular Ork Army. To have a Waaagh! Ghazgkull Army, it has to use those Formations/Detachments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Yeah I'm seeing that. Great. SO in addition to the book being a reprint, very little in it being usable in anything past garagehammer, they took away the Waaagh Ghaz cad. good job GW. also, they probably think they did a good thing.... and this'll be their excuse not to print a new book for a few more years. I'll have to redo my list and repost it in a new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 The detachment is actually really good if you build it right. You can in theory run the same list just some extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterman Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 Yeah I'm seeing that. Great. SO in addition to the book being a reprint, very little in it being usable in anything past garagehammer, they took away the Waaagh Ghaz cad. good job GW. also, they probably think they did a good thing.... and this'll be their excuse not to print a new book for a few more years. I'll have to redo my list and repost it in a new thread. Actually I believe it was always that way. It is one of the oddities of that book, I think every other supplement allows its relics and warlord traits to be used in a CAD or similar arrangement. But Ghaz supplement has always been exclusionary. I had just hoped it had changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 The Champions of Fenris one is the same way. I think the Haemonculi supplement and the mini-supplement stuff from Shield of Baal work like that, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 actually the old WAAAGH! Ghazzy had a "great watch" FOC, with like four elites and some troops and stuff. and it let you randomly teleport stuff on a roll of a 6. that's what allowed me to take another detachment 'cad' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 So still unsure why youre having issues with the book. You can still take all the things you want to take. Yes the core formation is a little taxing but you can still work it to be playable. Ive ran the formation a couple times and my difficulty is having enough thump to make the benefits worth while. I dont want to rely 100% on ghaz and his council but you dont get much freedom in the building your list which saddens me they had a real opportunity to take everything and make multiple clans amd how each style of.ork army plays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowbakk Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 I was hoping to use that FOC to have a random number of teleporting units of Grots at OFCC. 150 deepstriking grots... I see zero problems with this plan. ...except the FOC is fom an oler book now. Oh well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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