Xavier319 Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 So, for the Iron hands special rule it states that you can take up to three techmarines for each HQ selection that you make ,and they dont take up a force org slot. If you take a captain as part of a battle demi-company, that is part of the fist dicurion, do you get to take up to three techmarines that count as part of the dicurion? do they count as part of the battle demi-company since they were taken because of that captain? Do they still count as HQs? this goes for the big guns never tire mission as well. if you have a vindicator taken as an auxiliary from the imperial fist dicurion, does it still count as 'heavy support' for victory points, since it wasnt part of a CAD? or does all the the above ONLY work in a CAD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 So, for the Iron hands special rule it states that you can take up to three techmarines for each HQ selection that you make ,and they dont take up a force org slot. If you take a captain as part of a battle demi-company, that is part of the fist dicurion, do you get to take up to three techmarines that count as part of the dicurion? do they count as part of the battle demi-company since they were taken because of that captain? Do they still count as HQs? this goes for the big guns never tire mission as well. if you have a vindicator taken as an auxiliary from the imperial fist dicurion, does it still count as 'heavy support' for victory points, since it wasnt part of a CAD? or does all the the above ONLY work in a CAD? Hmmm...okay, you are confusing concepts. You have the battlefield role, which is HQ, troops and so forth, which is retained regardless of detachment (unless the detachment specifically changes your battlefield role). Then you have the HQ slot, as found on the CAD and a few other detachment types (like the Nemesis Strike Force, or Allied Detachment). Other detachments, like the decurion, break things down by specific units, requiring those specific models, rather than selecting by battlefield role. So regarding your decurion. As written, no, you can't take units that aren't specifically allowed by the detachment. That said, the Captain is still an HQ in battlefield role. So he is an HQ, but doesn't give slotless techmarines. At least, that's how I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 You cant have your cake and eat it too. If he's an HQ, he gives you slotless techmarines. If he's not, he doesn't. How can he be an HQ, and NOT give the slotless techmarines? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 You cant have your cake and eat it too. If he's an HQ, he gives you slotless techmarines. If he's not, he doesn't. How can he be an HQ, and NOT give the slotless techmarines? It's not my cake, this is GW's cake.... The idea is that you can take the techmarine for each HQ selection, but in the decurion, you have Captain selections, but not HQ selections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Captains are hqs, they retain their battlefield role no matter how they are taken... This allowing you to select additional Techmarine at least that is my read seems raw to me. Also Rai as it seems that rule is intended to reflect the fact that iron hands rarely go anywhere with out Techmarine support look at all those bionic pieces I'd want somebody around to fix them if I could! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Good. so what formation would the techies be a part of? battle company? none? part of the dicurion at least i assume? would they be a part of the battle demi-company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purajh Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I would have to go with its a grey area. If you do take them with a formation, I would say they do not benefit from the formations special rules as it states in the formation rules that the units listed get the special rules. but the BRB is clear that these types of units can be taken even if the slot for them does not exist in the detachment. CAD and Formations are two different types of detachments CAD have force organization slots based on battlefield role Formations have specific unit requirements. in the BRB pg 121 it states "Instead of including a Force organisation chart, the Army list entries that comprise the formation are listed on it, along with any rules those units gain" Army list entries that do not use force organisation slots BRB pg 121 it states "These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield role." Just my 2 cents to the conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 So with those I'd read it as the Techmarine will benefit from the overall decurion rules but not any specific formation rules... Excellent! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 Yep. Units in Formations or whatever still maintain their Battlefield Role, so even tho he's taken from a more limited selection, that Captain is still an HQ Choice, with all the consequences that follow on from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 rock on. that actualy makes sense. it confused the hell out of me that you could ONLY get a techmarine in an iron hands army by taking an armored strike force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 rock on. that actualy makes sense. it confused the hell out of me that you could ONLY get a techmarine in an iron hands army by taking an armored strike force. And only one independent one! The rule only kicks in for hqs that are not Techmarines... Masters of the forge no longer exist they are all just Techmarines now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier319 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 huh? The angels of death supplament says up to three per HQ. the rule was updated. o-o but yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 So that means a Demi-Company does not need to take a Command Squad as a Command Choice because it can take the Command Squad with the Captain that you took. Where am I wrong in this understanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Interesting corollary! And me with out my books... I thought command squads were just a straight up elite choice now no foc shenanigans for them... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Good call, they are Elites. Hadn't noticed them and Honor Guard going elite, as I never run them >_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 Cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 So that means a Demi-Company does not need to take a Command Squad as a Command Choice because it can take the Command Squad with the Captain that you took. Where am I wrong in this understanding? The Demi-Company actually includes 0-1 Command Squad as an option. You only need to go for a Command Choice if you want Honour Guard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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