Tau...

[Ish]

The one that springs most readily to mind is the Chainsword, which explicitly says it is an additional attack with that weapon’s profile. The Onager says it is one and only one attack...

[Guest]

Back up a second, BRB, 183, second paragraph of "4. Choose a melee weapon"

Quote

If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split it's attacks between these weapons however you wish - declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled.

And for the record, they FAQed the wording in the paragraph before this, so that every model has the close combat weapon, not just those without other weapons.

 

Going back to the topic at hand with melee weapons that modify the number of attacks

Chaos Daemons, Fiends of Slaanesh feature two weapons, "Disecting Claws" and "Vicious Barbed Tongue". The Vicious Barbed tongue says:

Quote

A model can only make a single attack with this weapon each time it fights.

Ah, found one with the near exact wording. Prehensile Pincer Tail (tyranids), it's found on the trygon and hive tyrant, to name a few. Tyranids have a number of other tail weapons all worded about the same.

Quote

Each time the bearer fights, it can make one (and only one) attack with this weapon. This is in addition to the bearer's attacks.

Also found another similar wording on the Mawloc's Distensible jaws (also tyranids)

Quote

Each time the bearer fights, one (and only one) of its attacks must be made with this weapon.

 

[Guest]

I believe that prior to the FAQ on the rulebook regarding page 183, you would have been correct. The page 183 FAQ changed it so that models that have melee weapons, still get the close combat weapon too. So prior to the FAQ, the TAU commander taking the Fusion Blades/Onager Gauntlet would only have the one melee weapon, so would only be eligible to attack with the one profile, despite extra attacks.

Since they have multiple weapons and can make multiple attacks (which is defined by having an attack stat of 2+), they can opt to assign attacks to their close combat weapon and assign other attacks to their fusion blades/onager gauntlet. I can't assign more than one attack to the onager, and no more than two to the fusion blades, but excess can certainly go towards attacks with my other weapons.

[Ish]

Yes, but the Onager doesn’t have the “[t]his is in addition to the bearer’s attacks” qualifier nor does it have the “one of its attacks” qualifier.

These are the sort of differences in language that are why attorneys get to bill $200 and hour.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ish said:

Yes, but the Onager doesn’t have the “[t]his is in addition to the bearer’s attacks” qualifier nor does it have the “one of its attacks” qualifier.

These are the sort of differences in language that are why attorneys get to bill $200 and hour.

Well, I don't think a rules dispute in 40k is worth an attorney's time, but I think they'd agree with me.

 

It establishes context to similar wording.

The perhensile pincer tail ability is stating that one bonus attack is made with that profile.

The onager gauntlet is stating that one of the model's attacks may be that profile.

The Vicious barbed tongue is also stating that one of the model's attacks may be that profile.

The Distensible jaws is stating that one of the model's attacks must be made with that profile.

The chainsword is stating that one bonus attack is made with that profile, and that further attacks may be made with that profile.

[Guest]

<site keeps deleting everything I type if I add quote after typing. I'm probably hitting a button wrong.>

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Ish said:

Yes, but the Onager doesn’t have the “[t]his is in addition to the bearer’s attacks” qualifier nor does it have the “one of its attacks” qualifier.

It doesn't need it. It works as written to limit the total number of attacks made with this weapon.

The Onager is just clarifying that when I assigning my attacks to my melee weapons, that only a single attack can be assigned to use with the Onager Gaunlet.

And you keep saying that the rules are sloppy, but this edition, I feel that they've fixed it. The wording is consistent. Though FW still has crappy, probably un-proof-read rules.

 

[Guest]

PS: Thank you for helping me to solidify my stance. I was much less sure before.

[Guest]

Probably a terrible plan, but I could run 10 Heavy Gun Drones (2x units of 5 drones) in a Devilfish with a Cadre Fireblade, Ethereal, Recon Drone, and 2 attached Gun Drones.

Would be 547pts in one transport (including transport with max seeker missiles, but not including pathfinders required for recon drone).

With everything disembarked, we'd have 100 burst cannon shots (8 are pulse carbine, but same profile), a markerlight, and 2 seeker missiles. Ah, this army makes crazy shooting phases really appealing.

[Guest]

I feel this needs to be in every TAU thread....

[SPaceORK]

10 hours ago, paxmiles said:

They're like $5.50 each on bits sites for this model (it is an optional component of the getting started set for warriors of chaos, so they have lots). And the GW krootox is only sold by GW in finecast. And direct only, for $24.75 each, plus shipping. Plus the krootox model only has one skulpt.

The older one is metal, but ebay wants around $20 each (plus $5 shipping) and there isn't much supply, so I'd need multiple purchases from different sellers (which kills me in shipping, since it doesn't combine). And still, only one skulpt (and the same, one skulpt).

As for modifications, making the gun and rider would be easy if I started with a regular kroot infantryman. As for modifying the krootox, it really depends how much much modification I decide it needs.

For bits, it comes like this:

So most of the armor is optional. You could shave off the chaos bits, or just putty on kroot flesh in their place. Could also put trees or something on their base which concealed the sections poorly converted.

Furthermore, the Kroot infantry squad comes with 16 models, despite the minimum squad size being 10. So if I buy a box of kroot, I'd have extra models to become riders.

Adding that to the box as well...

Edit: I think the box is actually full at this point. Probably time to send.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

Adding that to the box as well...

Edit: I think the box is actually full at this point. Probably time to send.

I completely forgot about this one. What all are you sending me at this point? I remember you being very generous and offering to send me something I wanted, but I don't recall what it actually was...I completely deleted all my old PMs on Ordo (a month ago) because I was pretty sure I had resolved all that were resolvable and I had some pretty old ones there. 

 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Musing...

Heavy Gun Drones Vs Crisis Suit Bodyguards. 

So they FAQed the FW Heavy Gun Drones to have the current Drone saviour rule. So they are 3-wound gun drones with 2x the shots per model, and they don't have the MV1 Gun Drone Targeting restrctions.  They are 34pts each (18pts base, plus weapons), fielded as a heavy slot in units of 2-6. Alternatively, they can be equiped with a burst cannon and a markerlight, and they have a special rule that allows them to fire both, but lack the marker drone's ability to move and fire heavy weapons. The heavy gundrones cannot deep strike like the fast slot tactical drones.

Crisis Suit bodyguards have the Crisis suit squad leader profile and a psedo drone saviour rule that works only on characters. They are 30pts per model, plus weapons. They are an elites slot in units of 3-9.

So the bodyguards have a much better profile, but they are the same speed and have the same wounds. The bodyguard savior rule variant is more restrictive, unless you have longstrike (only TAU character that isn't infantry or battlesuit). The drone ballistic skill is easy to modify to be equal, so the lacking BS on drones is somewhat a moot point. In terms of weapons, if the plan for the bodyguards is 2x burstcannons, then the drones are cheaper because the base model is cheaper. Heavy Gun Drones also have a smaller starting squad, so the overall squad is cheaper. Also of note is that the Heavy Gun Drones can technically be transported in a devilfish, while the bodyguards must footslog everywhere (without FW transportation), so while the bodyguards have superior armor, the heavy gun drones may live longer just due to being able to be concealed within a transport until they are needed. Bodyguards are definitely superior in melee.

Oh, in a rules exploiting capacity, the heavy gundrone has a smaller base (drone flying base) than the current crisis 50mm base, so you could fit more heavy drones within 3" of a protected model than you could with bodyguards. 

So I guess my point is that while the heavy gundrones are mostly worse than the bodyguards, they have contextual uses that could make them better in the right roles.

A follow up point to this is that the Heavy Gun drones can take a Markerlight+Burstcannon instead of 2x Burstcannons. It's not a great weapon pairing, but it does drive down the cost. They become 29pts each (18+3+8), which makes them cheaper than the bodyguards can be without weapons. Their rules penalize them for moving and firing the marker, but they can fire both weapons in the same phase.

Still probably not worth it, but an interesting point. Hmm...

[Guest]

Warlord Trait question, does "Exemplar of Kauyon" apply in melee?

Either way, these TAU warlord traits are really strong.

[Kelharis]

42 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Warlord Trait question, does "Exemplar of Kauyon" apply in melee?

Either way, these TAU warlord traits are really strong.

It reads to me as all hit rolls, not just melee.

Edit: I read that backwards, but yes, all hits

Edited January 5, 2019 by Kelharis

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Kelharis said:

It reads to me as all hit rolls, not just melee.

Was just thinking that it would be shooting phase, 'cause TAU. Thanks for the doublecheck.

 

[SPaceORK]

8 hours ago, paxmiles said:

A follow up point to this is that the Heavy Gun drones can take a Markerlight+Burstcannon instead of 2x Burstcannons. It's not a great weapon pairing, but it does drive down the cost. They become 29pts each (18+3+8), which makes them cheaper than the bodyguards can be without weapons. Their rules penalize them for moving and firing the marker, but they can fire both weapons in the same phase.

Still probably not worth it, but an interesting point. Hmm...

At this point the box includes; 

Third party cultists

Servitors

Furries

Demon prince conversion

Fantasy hellcannon

Tau helmet less heads

Tau bits

Most of a devilish

Beast from chaos

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

At this point the box includes; 

Third party cultists

Servitors

Furries

Demon prince conversion

Fantasy hellcannon

Tau helmet less heads

Tau bits

Most of a devilish

Beast from chaos

So awesome. Thank you.

Hey, do you need anything?

[Guest]

Insane tau idea:

I'm noting that the Dal'yth Stratagem, Strike and Fade, could be used on a deep striking unit to move *closer* to the enemy in the shooting phase, and ensure a 3" charge...If they weren't TAU, this would be broken.

This would mean moving *away* from any drones that deep struck with the unit.

[Guest]

Still waiting on that little stormsurge hatch bit from that 3d printing site. Their website says it hasn't even been built yet...I might have to call customer service.

In hindsight, after exploring their site, I found that you can very easily get 15% off via being a student and registering with your .edu email: https://www.shapeways.com/education/?li=faq

A bit too late, probably, though I also not presently a student. Still, worth knowing.

[Guest]

Anyway, I'm off.

Going to pick up another box of Firewarriors later today. Then I can do proper 10-man squads in the battalion.

[Kelharis]

10 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Anyway, I'm off.

Going to pick up another box of Firewarriors later today. Then I can do proper 10-man squads in the battalion.

Keep in mind that if you grab the kill team box set, you get the firewarriors plus the trench terrain for only $10 more (minus 15%).  Or the start collecting for only $35 more.

[Guest]

Very good suggestions, kelharis, but I decided I wanted my money for other things. After much debating, I decided on a single box of fire warriors and a piece of transport foam that looked like it would hold my models in a more compact way. 

[Guest]

Present plan is to use this third box of firewarriors to push my troops into 2x10 strike, 1x5 strike, and 1x5 breachers. Strikes will have missile pod turrets and markers, breachers will be cheap.

[Guest]

Cannot find my Ethereals....I have 2 of the new ones. I wanted to paint them before full assembly, but the main body of each is missing. I'll find it, but tomorrow(or rather, at 3pm today) I might be using a Tech Servitor for an Ethereal.