Kremmet

I hear going from points to no points is a pretty big difference. That aside, yes, General's Handbook points differ quite a bit from what WHFB was. That said, AoS is nothing like WHFB so that's not all that surprising.

Deaf marines are canon now.

Your cries of typo fall on deaf ears.

I thought about it and I'm pretty sure Wraithguard already fear battlecannons.

To be fair, the Dread Saurian was a WHFB that has been repurposed to AoS so the square base isn't all that confusing .

This mirrors my thoughts pretty closely. While I don't think 40k will suddenly become a game known for its tactical depth, it can at least be less cluttered up by archaic design principles and poorly worded rules with little-to-no clarification given. That would be a drastic change for 40k and GW as a whole.

Man, this is the first time I've been excited about 40k since I learned that other miniature games exist. Now if they'd only start producing some models for SoB, they'd have a stew goin'!

On the topic of speeding up play, I really recommend downloading a chess-clock app so each player can see how long they're taking individually without needing a third party. It's super helpful for understanding the idea of respectful time use (i.e. not using your opponent's half of the time) which is something I find too many wargamers have a difficult time with.

For your team you do not need to take the Suryat with the Haris rule as Kornak himself has it. In fact, Kornak can only create a Haris in this way as you can't field multiples of him. Now, if you want a Haris of 2xSuryat and a Raktorak, you'll need one of the Suryats to be the Haris one as the Raktorak does not innately have the rule Fireteam: Haris like Kornak does.

Yeah, unfortunately we only had the Zombicide miniatures for this game so keeping track of more than two types is a little difficult. Also you really need every result creating zombies or they just get mowed down too easily.

So yeah, instead of giving a rundown of every turn with pictures, I thought I'd just talk a bit about the game and then throw some images at the end. Sound good? Good! Overall, the mission is interesting. This time around we specifically built the table to be a bit more shotgun maze-y in an attempt to give the zombies a better chance of getting to us unmolested (this is also why the lists are all weaker than what you'd expect). The problem with this is we then inadvertently brought a bunch of template weapons which made short work of the packs of four zombies. Pictured: the ISS and CA robit forces stare down a bunch of zombies (well, most stare at a wall, but that's just as good!). Even when the dice turned cold, the zombies were still at a pretty massive disadvantage. This proved true whether we spread out, brought a bunch of robots (none of whom can sync with civvies), or lowered our model count. In my few games of this before making heavier modifications, the closest a zombie came to killing anything was when a Domaru was bitten a few games ago after he rushed a pack of three. Zombies lining up for a nice shotgun to the face. Since this game, I've played another round with some minor alterations that aimed to give the zombies a better chance at causing some damage. Zombies still appear on a 1-15 roll, but a 16-20 creates a super zombie (basically a zombie with a second wound, ARM 3, DA on its claws, and immunity to template weapons). Zombies gain Climbing+. Players are limited to 5 models max. Dead player models turn into zombies with identical stats to their starting profile. While I didn't stop anyone from bringing blast weapons when we tried this new version, I personally brought nothing with templates or Shock in the hopes that the difficulty would increase. This time around, we had five players (Ariadna, ALEPH, JSA (me), Pan O, and MAF) which made the game go on way too long (I recommend capping it at three players), but it was still entertaining. Unfortunately, all the super zombies were very easily dealt with and, again, template weapons such as mines made short work of the zombies. Next up I want to try severely limiting equipment and try a campaign-style game where equipment is found. Kinda like a Zombicide without all the quarterbacking. Still, even though it's very easy, it is nice to use Infinity models and rules in a cooperative way. Opens up the idea that Two-Headed Giant might be fun!

Nobody was saying that they would. I suggested it could be a possibility, but the comment was in reply to Fluger's who said he didn't like that marines with a 3+ save gain little benefit from cover currently which would hold true in the new edition given what we know about small arms for models with a 2+ save. Nobody was saying anything about models with a 3+ save VS models with a 2+ save and nobody was saying that a Terminator would have a 2+ save no matter what.

I'm not sure what you're lost on. Terminators already have a 2+ save meaning whatever bonus to save they get from cover will be irrelevant against most weapons in the same way that cover currently doesn't help a model with a 3+ save, again against most weapons, currently. Terminators could also easily not benefit from the bonus cover armor as nowhere have they stated they're getting rid of the 2+ maximum on saves.

So I recently was able to get in a few games of the Zombies!!! Halloween mission a Owen Schindel wrote. The gist of it is: Basics: A normal 4'x4' Infinity board is used (heavy terrain saturation is a must) for setup with an objective room for the center All players are cooperative The player spawn point is a 24"x12" box situated on one table edge There are six spawn points for zombies (each in 12" intervals on all non-deployment edges) Each list is built using 100 pts LI format with additional caveats being: each HI choice must be matched by two non-HI choices per selection that there are no named characters allowed. Zombies: Roll a die for each spawn point at the beginning of each game round. On a 1-15, 1+X zombies spawn (X=the number of players) Zombies are considered enemies with 4-2 MV, 0 ARM/BTS, 1 W, and 10's for all other stats. Zombies also have NWI and an immunity to isolation. Activate zombies using two Impetuous orders every turn. Zombies will attempt to charge the nearest enemy each round (ignoring LoF) and are treated as using the Berserk skill when they do so. Civilians: Rescuing civilians is the point of this mission and is accomplished through syncing with them before getting them into the objective room in the center before battening down the hatches to wait out the zombie attack. Civilians follow all the standard rules found in the HSN3 book. Setup civilians AFTER the first round is finished. To do this, use the standard scatter rules placing the template and model directly over the center of the table (point the zero on the template towards the center of the player deployment zone). And that's about it for the mission! It's pretty simple and this short write up isn't the best, but I don't want to get too bogged down in this before getting to the game itself so it'll have to do. Lists: I'll admit that I don't really remember exactly what Morat player was running, but I'll do my best from memory: Morat Aggression Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4 YAOGAT Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 27) MORAT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) MORAT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) SURYAT Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41) 0 SWC | 100 Points Open in Infinity Army Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4 PHEASANT IMPERIAL AGENT (Chain of Command, Fireteam: Haris) Red Fury / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36) BÀO TROOP (X Visor, Biometric Visor L2) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) BÀO TROOP (X Visor, Biometric Visor L2) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) 1.5 SWC | 99 Points Open in Infinity Army Combined Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 7 NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) SEED-SOLDIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) 0.5 SWC | 100 Points Open in Infinity Army I was the normal CA player in the match fielding a list I purposefully tried to make weak while still using the models I had at hand. I say that I tried to make it weak because I had previously played Zombfinity with the ISS player using things that I thought might be fun to play with and the challenge ended up being way too low. Besides the hacker I had to bring to unlock the REMs, I endeavored to spend zero SWC and not max out my list to the obvious 10 models. With the lists ready, we were off! Deployment: We each rolled off to see in what order we'd activate and, as I won the roll, I decided to setup as the vanguard for Tom (Yu Jing to the right) and Allen (MAF to the left). The idea was to have equal numbers guarding and looking at the table as the civvies could end up anywhere and we didn't want to spend an extra round rooting them out. I'll come back in a bit with some more pictures and a rundown of how things went!

I'm with you there. That said, with a game that has as many models as 40k has, reducing the amount of special circumstances is pretty important.

That also assumes they're pushing the saves to 1+, but yeah the original caveat you stated of "against most weapons" would apply here too.

Yep, now it's just terminators that are as survivable in cover as they are outside of it. Personally I find it odd considering they added shooting modifiers in the same breath, but maybe there's a balance issue between 3+ units and 2+ units we're not aware of yet.

That's what I like about you, Fluger: even while throwing shade you still sound calm and reasonable.

Vengeance Seekers are Special now, but I agree that they're fantastic. I10, S5, 3D3 attacks is pretty great.

If you're looking for an official alternative scheme, the Shen Ce one is very striking and involves the jade you want. Note: these are not mine.

Ehh, dwarf artillery was pretty significantly better than their small arms in 8th. That said, the "best" formation in 9th tends to be a mixture of the two. Artillery represents condensed threats with large fields of interdiction while small arms are better value buy. Balance between the two is pretty important for the dawi given their lack of offensive magic and cav. And yeah, cannons kinda suck.

I'm with you on the model. I managed to convert mine out of the Guijia pilot, a spare rifle, and some sci-fi basing to make her hoverboard. It also has the side benefit of making it so ALEPH's ideal humans aren't exclusively white people!

The no armor on the assault REMs does hurt, but they're also BTS 6 for stranger engagements. The way I like to look at it is the Rui Shi and Lu Duan are both built and priced to die with me being OK with it. Use them aggressively and don't worry about whether they stay up forever. As long as they piece trade, you're likely still pulling ahead given the overall cost. You can also use the Rui Shi as more of a backfield piece by putting it into Suppresive Fire with Assisted Fire to deter flankers. Granted, in LI, this likely is not worth the orders, but in normal games it can be a lifesaver. As for your new list, the only major quibbles I have are the lack of supportware to, well, support your Rui Shi and the lack of a Sophotect. The former is very important in getting the most out of assault REMs as BS 12 ignoring cover on the to-hit roll is a big worry. Without it, the threat a Rui Shi presents is greatly lessened. For the Sophotect, they're just about the best specialist in the game along with being fantastic for LI in particular given their NWI and great movement potential. Other than those "issues," I like the list. The Pangguling makes sense given your plan for it and the increased profile of your pieces makes the list look a lot more combat ready.

Yeah, my list considers more what is a good idea for an all-comers list along with what is feasible in 200 pts. I also love to have things like Bao, Pheasants, and especially Cranes in my ISS lists, but I don't consider them good fits for smaller point games due to the natural restrictions therein (i.e. they all have unnecessary equipment that drives their price up). I'm curious as to what issues you've had with REMs as they're quite literally the first purchase I tell people to make after their starter regardless of faction (barring Ariadna and Tohaa of course). Maybe we can work through them a bit especially if you're having issues with a stud like the Rui Shi.

Ah, I see. I still think the Su-Jian list would be better there as the battle cat is so cool. Personally, I think the issue is with the value of the troops you're bringing. For example, Bao are pretty cool and I think their Haris is useful, but at 200 pts a Rui Shi and hacker somewhere in the list is just a more points effective method to get MSV2. You're losing out on the redundancy and Haris burst, but you're gaining in a useful specialist and a frankly amazing combat REM. Imperial Service ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 3 GUĬ FĒNG Spec-Ops (4 XP) (WIP:15, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) CELESTIAL GUARD Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) SOPHOTECT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) KǍNRÈN Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon, Knife. (0.5 | 32) 4 SWC | 199 Points Open in Infinity Army This is closer to what I would look at it. It has two decent hackers, the Sophotect with a Yudbot friend, a murder ball in the Su-Jian, and smoke shenanigans in a core link with one of the best MSV2 models in the game (in terms of value that is). It's lacking in the CoC, the Kanren could be swapped out for that if you want it, and the Haris, but I don't think I'd aim towards the Haris options in ISS at 200 pts given how expensive they are.