Xavier319

I hate to say this, but i've gotten rulings from FW and from GW< from two separate people, saying two separate things. so until an official faq comes out, i know that email was that one person's thoughts on it. IF the guys ate frontline are taking raptors to tournaments and using the printed rules, then i'm fine with that. Honestly, we cant start interpreting RAI, we have to go with RAW until a generally accepted interpretation is handed down. At least that's my two cents. Urk. I was all excited to make this army, now I cant even get a ruling that most agree on to let me know what my CT even does. beh.

Hmmm Oh well, I liked the old one better. but it's not official at all. so would i have to ask at EVERY tournament to see which one they are using? that's a damn hassle. this is one email from a FW guy. well... is there anything that states what the community as a whole uses? I'll go with the new one, that's fine. I just wish they'd actually definitively faq things. But if i wanted that, i'd play another game.

I personally think that as AP said, moving the gunrigs around on a 'real' table is difficult, due to terrain. Also, T 7 2 W 3+ is not really hard to kill at all. They wouldnt last past turn one or two at the latest. I'd go for either one. both formations require tactics and foresight, and are fair and offer lots of cool options. They are not "point and click" formations. I say no gunrigs. That's my 2 cents.

Alright, Raptor's Chapter Tactic says... "Strike from the shadows (As per the raven guard chapter tactic in codex: space marines): Models in this detachment have the Scout special rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in the detachment have the Stealth special rule. Note that units which contain models with any variant of the bulky special do not benefit from either rule." Now, I have always assumed that what is written out in the PDF takes priority. My question is, does the new version of 'strike from the shadows' in the SM codex take priority? I personally do not think so for two reasons. One, the new book is "Codex Adeptus Astartes: Space Marines" not "Codex: Space Marines", so the reference is invalid on that face. Also, the FW PDF specifically writes out the chapter tactic, the fact that it refers to another (now defunct) rule, doesn't matter. Now, I'm not trying to power game or be silly, I'm legitimately trying to interpret RAW here. What do you think the RAW is? Is there an accepted norm I'm not aware of? In some articles on Frontline gaming (recent ones), the article implies that the old chapter tactic is kept.

actually they keep scout. as it actually lists their chapter tactic in the forge world listing. at least that's my understanding, backed up from articles on frontline gaming. Since it does not just say "as ravenguard" it actually spells out what that means. Is there anything that definitively states that they do what raven guard do, or do they use what is actually printed in the PDF? Well, as for the advice, thank you. If they LOSE scout, then yes, i'm more inclined to get shrouded. if they keep scout, i'm more inclined to take the rhinos. Also, Ob sec grave cents, is sick. So tell me, what would you put in for 'more bodies'? just more tactical marines? tons of scouts? just zero transports period? seems VERY static without transports. you know the transports can infiltrate if they are dedicated, right? that makes them far more mobile and allows for sick alpha striking.

Alright, that's what I thought. Just making sure my interpretation of RAW was in fact correct.

Hmmm I can only assume that since it's been liked an no one responded that it looks like a perfectly good list, and No one sees any real problems with it, and that my tactical assumptions and observations are about correct. i find that I WANT to put in some sternguard, but with ALL boltguns getting rending from the CT, that sternguard seem less and less worth their points cost to me. Loading everyone up with grav weapons seems to be the way to go, the alternate is plasma or melta, but It just doesnt seem to fit or carry the same effect. My only real question is adding in the extra marines to the Skyhammer for my 150 going from 1850 to 2k. Think that's the right call? My list has a little of everything, and more plays to the mission and to exploit enemy weaknesses, not focus on my own strengths. just enough melee units and power to exploit weakness in melee (tau, guard, some eldar, some necrons), enough shooty to keep some foes at bay (orkz, some necrons, demons, etc), and enough numbers to outnumber the TRULY elite armies (Grey knights, imperial knights, etc). I think that how well it does will truly come down to how it's used. some of the really rock paper scissors lists like a five IK list, or hard-core bike spam might give me some issues, but then again, it depends on the game and the general. rambling aside, does anyone see any glaring serious weaknesses? lack of punch? lack of coverage in a certain area? anything at all? Would you be worried at all seeing a list like this across the table? I admit having a lack of anything hardcore cover ignoring is a problem, but I will most likely just roll for perfect timing and make use of my auspexes.

Well, the imperial fist one doesnt apply since hurricane bolters are already twin-linked. the imperial fist one lets you re-roll 1's to hit. do you know where this precedence came from? Not that I dont believe you.

Okay, so the second part of their CT is that if the model does not move, it may fire any boltguns, bolt pistols, or bolter portions of combi-weapons as heavy 1, and they gain rending. Grav cents are SaP, which make htem 'always count as having not moved in the shooting phase', so that takes care of part one. hurricane bolters are not their own weapon, in the weapon description, it states that they "consist of three twin-linked boltguns fired as a single weapon'. It sounds like to me, RAW, that raptor grav cents can move, and fire 3 twin-linked heavy 1 rending boltgun shots each via CT. am i off-base here?

Alright, so I have a bunch of marines sitting around that aren't Iron hands. This is an issue. They're getting used, and I've always loved the Raptors. Alright, so this is a split 1850/2000 point list. I'm looking for something competitive that gives me strategic options, and deployment shenanigans. Fluff is that they are an extended infiltration team that doesn't have heavy equipment at their disposal, or anything that can't move quickly (The Cents are lashed to the tops of the rhinos after the pilots get out if they need to move cross country quickly, one per rhino). So let me know what you think of the list, please. Both fluff and it's ability to compete at both a casual and tournament level. The 2k version adds in 10 more skyhammer assault marines, for twice the first (or second) turn assaulty goodness, and the melta bombs on the scout sergeants. Tactics are as follows... Issodon can pick three units and himself to give infiltrate to. Generally it'll be whatever suits me best. Tac squads, the Grav cents, assaulties, whatever. Flexibility. The captain goes with the demi-company assault squatd I can do nearly null deployment. outflank, deep strike turn one or turn two. I have alpha strike, and I can play to the objectives. The only thing I really lack is flier defense, and I figure I can use divination and the tactical doctrine with my grav cannons and rending boltguns to take down fliers pretty well. Or just ignore them and score maelstrom points. I was inspired by Jer's Raven Guard list using the talon strike force, and this is my own take, hopefully he'll chime in. Raptors 3rd Company – 1850 +150 Battle Demi-Company –940 Captain – 155 Power Fist, Auspex, Jump Pack, Artificer Armor Tactical Squad (5) – 105 x3 Grav Cannon & Grav-Amp Rhino – 40 x3 Dozerblade Assault Squad (5) – 100 Jump Packs, Flamer (2), Melta Bombs Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Grav Cannons & Grav-Amp (3), Omniscope Skyhammer Annihilation Force – 490 + 140 Assault Squad (5) – 100 x2 +5 Marines +70 x2 Jump Packs, Flamer (2), Melta Bomb Devestator Squad (5) – 110 x2 Multi-Melta (4) Drop Pod – 35 x2 Raptors CAD – 420 +10 HQ – 275 Lias Issodon – 175 Librarian – 95 Mastery Level 2, Auspex Troops – 110 Scouts (5) – 55 x2 +5 x2 Bolters + Melta Bombs Fast Attack – 35 Drop Pod – 35

Alright, so I have a bunch of marines sitting around that aren't Iron hands. This is an issue. They're getting used, and I've always loved the Raptors. Alright, so this is a split 1850/2000 point list. I'm looking for something competitive that gives me strategic options, and deployment shenanigans. Fluff is that they are an extended infiltration team that doesn't have heavy equipment at their disposal, or anything that can't move quickly (The Cents are lashed to the tops of the rhinos after the pilots get out if they need to move cross country quickly, one per rhino). So let me know what you think of the list, please. Both fluff and it's ability to compete at both a casual and tournament level. The 2k version adds in 5 more skyhammer assault marines, for more first (or second) turn assaulty goodness, and five more devestator marines to either split off and pin with boltguns, or split up the four multi-meltas for more tactical options. I wanted the addition to be something that would not significantly change my over-all tactics, so i could easily transition between 1850 and 2k without a significant change in how the army plays. Tactics are as follows... Issodon can pick three units and himself to give infiltrate to. Generally it'll be whatever suits me best. Tac squads, the Grav cents, assaulties, whatever. Flexibility. Issodon himself doenst have a 'place' so to speak, unless I need to make the cents more resilient to AP 2 shooting with his shrouded USR. This I feel is a strength, as there is no clear spot for him in the list, and he can shore things up wherever he is needed. The captain goes with the demi-company assault squatd I can do nearly null deployment. outflank, deep strike turn one or turn two. I have alpha strike, and I can play to the objectives. The only thing I really lack is flier defense, and I figure I can use divination and the tactical doctrine with my grav cannons and rending boltguns to take down fliers pretty well. Or just ignore them and score maelstrom points. I was inspired by Jer's Raven Guard list using the talon strike force, and this is my own take, hopefully he'll chime in. Raptors 3rd Company – 1845 +155 Battle Demi-Company –935 Captain – 155 Power Fist, Auspex, Jump Pack, Artificer Armor Tactical Squad (5) – 105 x3 Grav Cannon & Grav-Amp Rhino – 40 x3 Dozerblade Assault Squad (5) – 95 Jump Packs, Flamer (2) Centurion Devestators (3) – 250 Grav Cannons & Grav-Amp (3), Omniscope Skyhammer Annihilation Force – 490 + 155 Assault Squad (5) – 100 x2 +5 Marines +85 Jump Packs, Flamer (2), Melta Bomb Devestator Squad (5) – 110 x2 +5 Marines +70 Multi-Melta (4) Drop Pod – 35 x2 Raptors CAD – 420 HQ – 275 Lias Issodon – 175 Librarian – 95 Mastery Level 2, Auspex Troops – 110 Scouts (5) – 55 x2 Bolters Fast Attack – 35 Drop Pod – 35

hmmmm -_- I like more regular stuff. you dont HAVE to show yanno. most stores do a tourny a month to drum up interest and business. I think it would be good for the nest to have a regular tournament on the books. might attract more players. hmmmmmm

Thank you, for making the tournament last Saturday a big success! Everyone was there, had a good time, and we had some great games. Is this something you guys would like to do more? perhaps once a month? Third or so Saturday a month? Or maybe even do it on Sunday, so it doesnt interfere with the casual play day? Thoughts? Ideas? Also, for the spring Escalation league, I'll be incorporating several new things to make it fun. We'll be using battlefleet gothic in order to have space battles and set up things like planet invasions, and then using planetfall supplament and other such things in order to make the battles more interesting. Should be fun. Until then, enjoy the games this Saturday, we'll be there!

That's what I said! Why you gotta make trouble? Sheesh.

We roll dice at 12:30, dont be late!

A bunch of +1ks to that up thar. It's good. Mhmm

Everyone, post your list here, for approval. I need to make sure it fits ITC regulations and that it's legal. Lists must be in by this Thurs.

Get 'em all in, all that you have, so I can figure out some winners!

I wish... ;_;

hoooooraaaaaaaay

I too would like to know which big mek stompa and weapon rules are used. 40k apoc, war for arma? pdf?

OH... i've got ideas.. tons of ideas... so many ideas.... O_O I'll keep you informed FLuger. but it has to do with tanks for arms and feet.... >..>

for 550 points, you get a big mek stompa, with buzzgob in it, a belly deffgun, and an arm deffgun. with no close combat weapon. that's 2 7" str 10 ap 1 shots, with a couple of guns that are great but only hit on 5's. still dies like a chump against a wk for half the cost though.

hmmm so the double shooty knight sounds good. i'm thinking double battle cannon and gatling cannon. with heavy stubber. i'm not sure i need the icarus, but you're right, for 40 points, it's pretty damn good for aa, and would mean i do not need an aa tank. most factions either use jet bikes, skimmers, or fliers, so it'll usually find use. do you think the five point stubber-to-melta upgrade is worth it? i can see the krak launcher as well, 3 missile launchers are 45 points, and it's about the same cost. i'm putting this in my iron hands list, so what i really need is some big gunz, and back-up cc. against other super heavies, i guess i'll just shoot them a lot and avoid close combat with anything with a d wep like a wk.

Yeah, having that extra gun to target the thing you want to charge would be really nice. I'm actually looking now at the Knight Warden, with his gatling cannon, and the one with the battle cannon and the gatling cannon. i dont really LIKE losing the D melee weapon, its a Clown card against a lot of stuff. but the extra big gun seems really solid. As for carapace mounted weapons, i'm curious about them. They sem really over-priced for what they do. a 40 point three shot crack only launcher? ouch. I'm seriously considering one of these guys as an ally for my space marines.. thoughts? (though, i cannot for the life of me, figure out what that ten point upgrade, the "occular augmetics" does) http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Cerastus-Knight-Atrapos.pdf