McNathanson

Sorry to be confusing; my earlier post was just a stupid joke which made me laugh to myself:

Really if you want some sort of "somewhat approximately close to equal kinda" starting point, WFB points cost is about as close as you're going to get. Or, you can go with my initial proposal which most of you haven't even mentioned. Version 10 is already history and I'm about done beta testing TeethBuilder 11.0

Because you say so? Sorry man, normally I find your posts pretty logical, but this is just "argument by assertion", which is fallacious. Just because they stop making WFB and shortly after release a new game (with a different name, and totally different rules, and incompatible army books, and different statlines, and...) doesn't mean that it's the next edition of WFB. Semantics, I suppose.

Sure any mechanic that scaled risk with reward would be smart. Right now a L4 casting a minor buff has the same change of a Dimensional Cascade as an L1 calling forth all the winds of chaos to roll 6 dice at a boosted uber spell. Which isn't intrinsically bad just because it "seems silly" (because magic is actually not logical) but is bad because it takes the nuance out of decision making (throwing 6 is too often the obvious best choice)

40 Orcs don't make 5 Chaos Knights completely useless! 40 Orcs is an expensive, slow, relatively cumbersome block with moderately poor statline that is good at some fights and great at none. Chaos Knights can still do so much that the Orcs can't. As opposed to 6th where the Orcs were just hands-down horrible and the only thing they could do better than the Knights was absorb shooting damage, which would never be directed against them anyway cuz they were inconsequential. I think many people are forgetting how horribly imbalanced 6th was and how deeply it was flawed! RAF? Sea Guard? Never mind funneling, or clip-charges, or anticipatory charges... oh my... :)

Yes!!!

I'll definitely be playing WFB 8th edition until we (the Ordo WFB community) move together to a new game that lets us use our beloved armies on a scale and with a feel similar to WFB 8th. That game doesn't exist yet AFAIK, so WFB 8th TID (Til It Does)

My issue with 6th was the OP movement spells like TK's move spell, Dance Macabre, and Slaanesh Enrapturing Spasms or whatever. Too good. And also the funky lack of structure around their spells... the concept of "hex", "direct damage", etc. should have been there long ago to avoid all the slightly different and ambiguous wording. I do agree that the "mandatory L4" is lame, but I think the system overall is much more playable than prior editions. The "IF dwellers FTW" is kinda more legend than reality with modern army builds, and I find the magic phase highly tactical and flavorful. I just wish miscasts scaled with number of dice thrown... the two most irritating moments in 8th ed magic are a 2-dice miscast that blows your army up, and a 6-dice miscast that does nothing :)

Totally disagree with that logic. "That edition" (8th) *is* in fact the most recent edition of WFB (a game they no longer wish people to engage in, because they have a new, different game they are pushing). This is not at all the same as pulling a 7th edition FAQ when the 8th edition book is published! I mean look, they still have (had) the 6th edition Warhammer Fantasy Battle Bretonnia FAQ up until just now. Is there a more recent version of the WFB:Bret army book? No, there's a new (incompatible) book for a different game. So they pull it. Not after published 7th, or 8th, but after launching a new game they want people to play instead. Anyway I am not losing sleep over it but pretty obvious dick move by GW... there's no other practical reason to remove the rules errata for WFB. Agreed, not hatred or disdain, just horridly uncouth marketing tactics.

Cool. That statue should be sold to hire more/better rules writers, and playtesters, and a dedicated FAQ maintainer. Oh, GW, you poor dumb bastards.

To me, this is a Hole Nother Bag, man, a serious HNBoDs.

Many of you seem to dislike 8th edition magic rules, so I'm wondering, what edition was your favorite purely from a magic rules perspective, and why?

Regardless of the AoS part, ML has a totally valid point that it is SUPER lame of GW to pull the FAQs. The books we bought have errors, and they removed our ability to get the fixes! Really, really lame. GW is losing credibility and goodwill fast. PS: dkieft, that's not a fair parallel to draw... pulling an errata for an older book that was revised and re-published is one thing. Canceling a game, and then pulling the electronic errata for the rulebooks people paid for, in order to make it harder to play that game, is another entirely IMO. Just sayin', this whole mess is a different kind of dirty than I'm used to from GW.

That's really not 8th... but whatevers :)

I still think GW actually did something very cool by not releasing with a lame comp system... it allows perfectly fun games with armies like you mention. You bring your necros and their servants, and summon an army. I'll bring a Bretonnian Duke and his Questing Knights who are cleansing the Dark Forest. We can add/subtract until we have a good game. Could be fun pretty quickly, after we have enough experience to guesstimate a "good game" out of the gates. I'm still stoked for AoS and looking forward to learning it after OFCC, but not nearly as much as I'm looking forward to WFB 8th replacement game (fan-driven 8.5, home-grown, or whatever).

Oh Burk, I love you and your guess-range shenanigans, I surely do :) But pre-measuring was a huge, huge boon... no more arguments about whether the charge was short by 1/16th of an inch, no more "oops I bumped my unit guess you lose". And no more waiting around for a player to hem and haw about whether he had his unit properly placed at 8.0005" away from you. And personally I think steadfast turned out to be one of the bigger improvements from prior editions. Do you really miss the days of massed infantry being totally pants? Of a unit of 50 Halberdiers losing 8 men, to a charge of 5 cavalry models, breaking, fleeing and being run down? Steadfast is really cool, especially with the improved elite units that can still grind through even a big horde of chaff relatively quickly. 6 Power Dice at the "big spell" sucks mainly (IMO) because the miscast doesn't hurt badly enough. Anyway here's my "really needs fixing in 9th (lol)" list: - Challenges, base-to-base CC rules, and general shenanigans that can swing a combat hugely based off who can attack, whom they can allocate against, etc. - Charging, alignment, and weirdness around closing the door and maximizing models (charges that look like they should be possible but aren't, basically due to funky rules about what kinds of alignments can happen) - Overly-effective single-model diverters (it's not cinematic when a single goblin hero on wolf can block/flee/rally/block/flee/rally and effectively paralyze a unit of 25 chaos warriors) Otherwise if those things were fixed I think I would happily play 8th edition until the sun goes down on my hobby career, as long as a steady stream of new models, occasional book refreshes, and Swedish comp, kept it fresh.

You can put them on trays but what about moving through a narrower-than-tray opening in terrain? Are you going to "fudge" it or take them off? What about piling in? I haven't played the game yet so maybe it could work but I'm imagining trying to play 40k with trays and it wouldn't really work. And 50 Men at Arms without a tray is not gonna happen. Again all of which is not to say "AoS suXX!" it's that I don't see how it's practical with larger armies!

This. This is the main reason that, regardless of the rules, this game will not be fun at a larger scale. Do you guys remember playing as a kid when movement trays were not commonplace? It. Sucked. It was like trying to paint with oil based paints that were dried up using a crusty old brush. Or using a dining room table. Basically all the things I look back on and laugh appreciatively at how much better WFB got over the years. Taking out movement trays IMO relegates this game to 40k army size or smaller, if there is more model moving than in 40k. Unless the rules revision includes putting trays and formations back in, I don't see any way around the fact that we will need a replacement for WFB.

This I'm sure is totally right... expectations are usually "the killer". However I think that the last sentence should read, "It's the destruction of WFB that will make most vets hate this game." I love the idea of AoS as a simple game to play with smaller set of the same models. But I hate the idea of WFB going away!

There isn't going to be a simple formula like that which is anywhere close to balanced... for example, Magic Users. I know I know, "it's a start", but creating a comp system right now is waaaaay premature. Just play the game and get a feel. This is pure and simple "self comp" for now, and I for one think it's a bold move by GW and I applaud them for not pretending to do game balance. The "points" system they wrote in the past was a farce. Thus, Swedish Comp, "Cheese", comp scoring your opponent at a tournament, and all these other ways of self-comping that have made WFB somewhat competitive-tournament-playable. Maybe in the future GW will release a comp system with tournament play in mind. Or maybe the community will beat them to it (and do a much better job - I dearly hope this is what happens). But either way, I actually think it's refreshing that GW is at least not pretending to have a balanced point system in place. At least now we don't have to argue about which things are under-costed! IMHO now is time to just talk with your buddies about what might be fun, and throw down together. Formulas like the above are a premature waste of time that will get you lost in the weeds before you even know the game.

I think both armies should have the same number of teeth. If everyone agrees then I'll come up with an auto-comp calculator that everyone can use. TeethBuilder 10.0 (might as well sound respectable with the version number right?)

LOL! choice. I am actually stoked to play with my 9 year old daughter, who has already taken up painting along side me. It's going to be fun! If 9th edition never materializes, there's the Scandinavian 8th edition tournament dudes who are making 8.5, and there will be other fan-driven games, too. As long as GW is pushing out great models, all is not lost. To be honest right now my biggest concern for my WFB gaming future is GW's artistic direction with AoS so far... doesn't touch the better WFB model lines (WoC, DE, Brets, OK, O&G, etc.)

Like I have always said, Age of Sigmar is my favorite game, and the best thing GW has ever done ever.

I'm stoked to just look over those lists esp for Bretonnia (lol). Must wait until after OFCC though, seriously I gotta use my free time to paint not learn AoS :)

Please please PLEASE write up your games, take pics if you can stand it, and post your initial reactions and thoughts! I'm going to steadfastly avoid diving into AoS until after OFCC so I can stay focused on painting my remaining guys, but I'm dying to hear from other Ordo-ites what they think!!