AbusePuppy

Definitely some good stuff to know here. I definitely agree on the grey support structure- not a ton of its is visible in the pics, but those ugly, bland support struts on the banner ad piece just look really disconcerting. I'm pretty shocked at how big that thing is, though, I was expecting it to be a lot smaller. I'm curious what you mean about coloring the joint lines with a Sharpe, though. Do you just mean adding "shading" the joins, or something else?

What's your opinion on the colors and whatnot, Marcalla? I've thought about getting some at some point, but I'd definitely like to get a better idea what it's like first.

Inquisition still uses the rules printed in the Inquisition codex, for better or worse. In the case of the Chimera, this means that you have five fire points (but no Lasgun arrays) and the option to take Psybolt ammunition.

Unfortunately the organizer hasn't gotten back to me about getting a pre-pay option available online. However, if you are looking to reserve a spot, make a post here (or send me a PM if you prefer) and I can insure that a slot in the tournament is held for you. That aside, the event will be using the new ITC guidelines and missions, though it will be played at 1500pts as already decided.

Not all interpretations are equally correct, nor are all assumptions equally valid. The common meaning of "at full strength" is not hard to grasp- and that was the point of my example. I find it hard to imagine that anyone would legitimately take that viewpoint- that "full strength" means "damaged but carrying all weapons" because it clashes significantly with the normal usage of the phrase and makes no real sense in any other context. You do realize that there ISN'T a standard English phrase for that method of argument, right? hell, if we're gonna get all nitpicky about usin' them thar new-fangled ferner words, "douche" isn't English, either. Stop trying to be so pretentious with your ivory tower B.S., dude!

No, but it is a perfectly logical consequence of what you said. Reductio ad absurdem.

So when someone says to you "yeah, my unit of Tactical Marines is at full strength" you don't think "aha, there are ten models in the squad" you instead think "aha, they haven't fired their combi-weapon yet."

This is what I find so amusing about the list-rating process. In the name of letting people bring whatever lists they want and have fun with them, people are usually denied the ability to bring the list they want.

Oh good, they managed to make the Piranha formation COMPLETELY useless now. You can't stay off the board, you can't get models back (since "at full strength" obviously doesn't mean "at full strength," it means at depleted strength) and if anyone ever rolls an Immobilize result you're screwed.

Yeah, but when you say you literally meant Trukks, did you mean literally meant literally Trukks, or did you literally mean figuratively Trukks, Vypers, Venoms, Land Raiders, and etc? I'm still confused.

1. How do you beat a Wraithknight? (Assume it has either 4+ cover or Invisibility.) You say you "don't have trouble with them," but I'm struggling to understand why. You certainly don't outshoot them- with just S7 and S8 shots, you'll be lucky to put a wound per turn on them most of the time. You certainly don't outfight them- even the MANz will do very little there (remember, the WK kills two of them before they get to swing, so you're looking at 1-2 wounds going through, and then Stomps happen) and any of your other units trying to take it on is... intensely unlikely. Against other superheavies I can see things being better- Knights might be a bit problematic, but AV13 is a lot easier for you than T8 and they tend to lack the support elements that Wraithknights have. But I have trouble grasping how it is you expect to down a Wraithknight run by a good player. 2. You've got a lot of stuff going on here. Most of it is pretty decent, but I wonder how coherent it is overall. You have a wide variety of vehicle profiles (AV10, AV12, AV13) for the enemy to shoot their different guns at and with a combination of both infantry and mechanized units, you're going to get the worst of both worlds when it comes to target priority. Now, certainly hybrid lists exist and do well, but that's when they have a plan to force the enemy's attention and overwhelm them. You have forty Boyz plus miscellaneous other elements (MANz, Lootas, etc) which doesn't exactly translate into a lot of stuff for the enemy to deal with. Which leads into... #3. You don't really have all that much stuff by most measures. A total of, what, sixty infantry of various stripes? Seven vehicles, most of them with middling AVs on the majority of their facings (and including three AV10 chassis.) A smattering of other stuff as well, sure, but at the end of the day attrition is gonna wear you down pretty quickly- and, VSG aside, you're quite vulnerable to Grav weapons since you sprung for 'Ard Boyz on your troop units and you're running lots of vehicles. In short, your list looks to be trying to make Ork generalists, but I don't think that is a direction the codex does well to go in. The list isn't awful- there are plenty of good units in it and obviously the VSG can be a godsend against anyone not really prepared for it- but at the end of the day I'm not really sure what your plan is, even having read you describing it.

Look at this optimist, everyone. Look at him and laugh.

Trakks are not Trukks. The difference between AV11 or AV12 and AV10 is enormous.

Quiet a few folks are, from the sounds of it. We've got at least three of us from Corvallis, and I don't doubt there's some other folks on the forum who'll be going as well. Do you have a link for this? I'm looking for more Malifaux events in the area, so...

You might want to give people a time, location, points level, and other details.

Now all I need to do is buy my crew and assemble them and paint them and prepare a display board and learn to play the game and I'll be ready! ...Wait.

Awwwwwww, snap son! You can't let him step to you like that!

It's essentially a process of elimination for me. The first two (Tau) lists are taking a LOT of really weak upgrades- Shield Generators/Drones on the suits, mixed weapon loadouts (Plasma + Flamer, etc) on the same, and some suits having only one weapon such that they can't take advantage of the Multitracker. While there certainly are some good things you can say about the lists as well- the Retaliation Cadre is a very strong formation when used right and HYMP Broadsides are one of the best units in the game, especially when they're Relentless- those factors can only carry you so far. But with unusual weapon/support loadouts, very limited Markerlight support (maximum six in 2K points, with even those mounted on platforms that want dedicated fire priorities), zero melee solutions outside of Farsight himself, and mediocre morale as well as scoring potential. I see both of the Tau armies as struggling to do enough damage to really scare most lists while not having the resilience to really last through a game and take objectives (or, in a Maelstrom mission, have the forward presence to go out and get distant objectives, as Tau really don't like being in charge range of the enemy.) Though the IG list has a lot of problems with it- some of which I touched on before- it has in its favor fact that a fair number of armies will struggle to deal with 18HP worth of AV14 vehicles, the two Tau lists being amongst them, for examble. (The Tau have Fusion, of course, but good model placement and bubble-wrapping will prevent them from being able to make much use of it without getting SUPER lucky on Deep Strikes- even with Farsight around.) The Baneblade and Leman Russ, for all their flaws, are still big shooty tanks that are immune to most weapons and have pretty good numbers on their main guns. Though a lot of your weaker elements might get chopped up, most "typical" OFCC lists will lack the dedicated anti-tank to handle such big targets easily- you won't see massed drop Melta, Haywire, Str D, or Grav at such an event, at least in theory. (Of course, past years have proven this woefully untrue, but that's a whole other discussion.) You are unlikely to face such an army- and especially so because of the pairing system- so the list's most glaring weakness is mitigated. That's essentially the crux of it- the IG list has weaknesses that can be worked around, whereas the Tau lists weaknesses are fairly broad-reaching and their strengths middling at best.

I don't mean to blow your mind, but there are a lot of things that LH and I don't agree on.

I have never really had a good grasp on what mysterious processes motivate the OFCC ratings, but that last list sure doesn't feel like a '3' to me. Baneblade, sure, but it's far from the best superheavy and you're using one of the weaker Russ variants as well as a variety of suboptimal other units (mech'd Infantry Squads, Scions, Sentinels, Valkyrie, etc.) It's arguably a bit stronger than the others, but I wouldn't rate it as a tournament-quality list or anything.

I like the new maelstrom system a lot more (since it doesn't favor second player nearly as much), although I'm not sure about the 3pt gambles. Will have to see how that works out.

That's hot.

Orks cannot get a first-turn charge with most of their units- 6" move, 6" run, 12" charge is still only 24", which doesn't get you into the other guy's deployment zone. Now, Stormboyz can do it (since they move 12" and run 2d6"), but Stormboyz have a lot of risks associated with them and it essentially relies on your opponent deploying heavily forward and you not getting slowed/killed by Dangerous Terrain tests (which you will likely be taking two of per model in the unit.) Space Wolves can theoretically get turn 1 charges with their TWC... as long as they roll a '6' on the table every time. Which I would not be counting on.

I dunno- Hammer of Wrath on everything and the ability to Run + Charge every turn of the game are not trivial benefits- putting 3-5 hits on the other guy at Init 10 can be very obnoxious, especially against stuff like Daemons that have mediocre saves, and more-or-less guaranteed charges starting on turn 2 will give a lot of armies nightmares if they don't have enough melee presence to slow you down. The core formation doesn't really have any tax units in it (the Nob/Meganob unit being the closest thing) and its auxiliaries are relatively flexible and cheap in terms of your selection. I dunno if it's gonna change the game much, but I think it's way too early to be dismissing it as garbage. Losing ObSec hurts, but there are plenty of armies that work just fine without it and simply covering the table so the enemy doesn't have enough physical space to get close to objectives can be an acceptable replacement.

I was just trying to help out with the discussion.