MexicanNinja

I wasn't even going to take it that far. I was just going for destroying the magic banner and then letting the unit revert to a normal standard. However, since you brought it up, what's everyone else's thought on this? Swan brings up a good point, if you destroy a magic weapon they revert to a mundade close combat weapon. If you destroy magic armour, it's just gone. If you destroy a magic banner? High Elves and Lizardmen could also do with high magic.

You have to limit the number of warlocks, not the unit. This is why I suggested 10 max. You could either go 2 units of 5 or a single unit of 10. If you just say 1 unit, you could still stick 15 in there, plus 3 masters, plus 2 dreadlords or a dreadlord and a sorceress. BAM, there's your deathstar and the supreme sorceress (only there for power of darkness) is safely tucked in the second rank. I have been reading some interesting articles on Druchii.net about the medusa. Some people have had some very interesting results/uses for them. I think I am going to try one out at some point.

Yes, the rules states and any model, not character, who suffers 1 or more hits.

Hmm, nice NtK, I didn't count the BDE into the build option. That would be an awesome thing, actually. Just the addition of the breath weapon attacks could be enough to bring him along to try and win a round of combat.

The assassin gains killing blow from Dark Venom. It doesn't state that it is only for his close combat attacks. I also believe that is the reason he may only take the repeater and not a brace of handbows. The same is tru for the +1 to wound. It would also apply to his ranged attacks.

So, if this had nothing to do with OFCC you would comment on DE units, but since this is for OFCC you have nothing to add? This thread is for helping raindog with the event. Why not assist him on this? I doubt he is only going to listen to one person on this and will be doing some research of his own. He's just asking for assistance from dark elf players. Why not get to the main source, the people who play the army, to see what "they" think?

Well, now that I know what his primary role would be, it makes things much easier to disect. I am going to assume that he is going into a healthy unit of shades....say 7-10? The +1 to wound is nice if you are going for weak flank units and war machine crew. Here's a build I would use for putting him in shades: Repeater Handbow Dark Venom Glittering Scales Terrifying Mask of EEE! Why that random build? You get 2 ranged attacks with killing blow, if you don't want to engage with the shades (I'd give the shades great weapons of course) and the unit would be roughly 10 models. You are going to be hit on either 5's or 6's in close combat. You can force terror checks on units by declaring charges. The cool trick is that you don't even have to reveal the assassin for the terror test to be caused. I know, you pretty much die to anything you are hit by, but you have the potential to start early, possible game changer terror tests, in the back field of your opponent. A few units running through their lines could cause a lot of problem. I just may have to test this out sometime. NtK, thank you for this thread. I may have found a way to play an assassin!

Darkstar Cloak=character on Dark Pegasus w/cloak of twilight.

If you limit DE to only 2 RBT's, the same should be done for HE and Dwarf armies as well. If not, you are just discriminating on Dark Elf players.

I don't think I'm a DE expert, by any means, because I seem to not like the internet unit options. I play a heavy dark rider list with 2 RBT's and a unit of 5 warlocks. The shooting is "meh" most of the time. I charge things with my warlocks more than use them for magic. My level 4 tends to use all the dice, 95% of the time.

Well, I wouldn't even waste points on an assassin. However, you either get damage or survivability with the assassin. Without survivability you need to get the job done fast. If there are multiple characters plus a unit champ in a unit, I just don't see him doing the job. All you have to do is not accept a challenge and then who cares about his 4 attacks. If I were going to use points on one I would want survivability, as I've seen how the killing blow works with only 4 attacks with my Bret Lord, you won't always get the results you think in a single round of combat.

My thoughts, and keep in mind I'm not taking Dark Elves to OFCC so this isn't because it has an effect on my army: 1) 10 warlocks max. Either a unit of 10 or 2 units of 5. Even with two units you still need a decent roll to get off two bolts and you are limiting your other casting. If you just say one unit max, I would field a unit of 20 and call it a wrap. 2) If you are going to limit Dark Elves to only 2 RBT then the same needs to happen to HE. They are both able to spam 4, at the same cost. 3) I really don't think you need to restrict Masters. You get incredible outcomes with only 3, you can take a death hag for your BSB and still run 2 dreadlords (if you are going combat heavy instead of magic). There are ways around only having 3 masters. That, and I have yet to see anyone do the trick we've been discussing. 4) Limit Witches to the same max you have for savages. 5) Limit Executioners to a certain number. 6) 2 Hydra's max. I could continue, but here's the real problem with Dark Elves. Unlike most of the other books, we don't really rely on spamming mutliple units of the same type (I spam Dark Riders because I love mobility). Dark Elf players have a ton of good choices to fill for multiple roles. I.e. I want a unit I can have a quick punch with before sending in the troops....chariots, hydra's, cauldron, kharibdys, black dragon, shrine. I want a unit to hold the line for my heavy hitter to flank....witches, blak guard, warriors, even knights. There are just too many different combinations to choose from with this book. However I think my above suggestions should be a good start.

We could test this theory out sometime Murphy. I'll take the ward save and you take the strength potion. I'll sack my unit champ to him the first challange, deny the second, and then rape him with rank-and-file.

I'm pretty sure this post has something to do with OFCC. I think he may be working on the DE units.

I was just disgusted with the assassin in the army book. I loved them in the last book, and was hoping they just stayed the same. In the end, I would either take an assassin with killing blow and the following: ToP and Charmed Shiedl Armour of Destiny Just give him a 4++ and see how many turns he can swing away.

I'll have to look at the actuall wording when I get home tonight.

Ok, if I had to choose a few armies, here you go: 1) High Elf armies with the Lion Bomb. You need special characters to pull it off though. It's life caster who receives +2 to cast, the character with the BT bow, 30+ WL's, BotWD. The rest is filled with phoenixes,, cheap archer units, and cheap reaver units. 2) Mono Nurgle lists. Oh, -1 to hit everything, you have armour, you have 2 attacks each, you're S4 or 5, you have a 3+ armour save. 3) Double grey seer lists. Playing against double 13th is just nasty. 4) Daemons of all types. I really, really, really hate the winds of magic roll. That was the dumbest idea. I know it can hurt the daemon player; but I've seen this table destroy armies before anything is in close combat. This is the most non-respectable thing in the game. When I lose 2+ units, in a single turn, from this roll I get pretty flustered. Not at the player, at the damn book. This thing is sooooo flippin stupid!

Malekith can destroy magic items on a 4+ if he scores 1 or more hits on his target. It's purely to try and remove magic standards from a unit.

1) It hasn't come up yet. However it will soon. Here's the scenario. Malekith is in combat with a unit who has a magic standard. Malekith directs attacks at the standard bearer. Standard bearer is hit. I roll a 4+. Magic standard is no more. It is only for Malekith to destroy magic banners in a unit. FInal conclusion....suck on that BotWD. 2) That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure I play it correctly. Basically, I am thinking of running a Cauldron in a unit of CoK's.

Ok I have two questions for the community. 1) I cannot find anything in the MRB about not being able to direct close combat attacks at the standard bearer in a unit. Now, I know that this seems like a silly question, due to the standard just being picked up by someone. However, I just want to make sure that a model could direct attacks at the standard bearer. Scenario: I declare 2 attacks on the standard bearer. I hit 2 times, wound once, he fails save. The standard bearer isn't slain, but a rank-and-file model is removed. 2) If a model/unit is subject to both Frenzy and Stupidity and that model/unit fails their Stupidity test then they don't need to test for Frenzy, correct? The rule for Stupidity states they just mvoe forward a random D6" and they cannont take any other action. Frenzy states they must test in the charge sub-phase if they do not declare a charge but could declare a charge. I just want to make sure I have the correct assumption here. Scenario: I have a unit who fails their Stupidy test and moves forward 2". The unit is now 12" away from a unit who they could declare a charge against. Because Stupidity happens before the charge sub-phase, there is no Frenzy roll needed to see if the unit must declare a charge. Did I just play these rules correctly?

Um, yeah, I'm going to disagree here about the Dwarf comment. They could probably be one of the most solid armies right now. They can dish out the pain from range and then mop up with the combat blocks. I doubt you will see the list I am thinking about played in Ordo. I also believe WoC are more points than Dwarf Hammerers or Longbeards. You will get 2 turns to lay that cool spammed flame cannon on them. That pretty much makes WoC melt. Oh, and when that block of 20+ GW armed WS5 unit gets charged by cav.....meh, we'll do enough. Don't discredit Dwarfs from easily becoming one of the top 5 armies.

Here's my toughest Assassin build....Don't take one. Sorry NtK, IMO, this guy is a waste of points. Without coming with a stock 4+ or 5+ ward save this dude is just asking to die in a single round of combat. Honestly, I just don't see him doing much other than killing rank and file. However, you asked for a build, so I am not going to write the above without delivering a build: Extra Hand Weapon Dark Venom Talisman of Preservation That's it really, survivabilty. I just don't see this guy worth taking over a master. This hero was a huge let down to me. He loses to skaven assassin 95% of the time.

I don't think the list or the upgrade is bad though. It actually could work with lots of unit supported charges after the shooting is done, at the point level you are currently playing.

I'm stuck in a debate right now. Do I take Malekith on a cold one or do I take Mallus Darkblade and a level 4 dark magic caster on a dark pegasus? The rest of the list is virtually identical. I'm just torn on the lord choices. I want to try out Malekith; however, I don't want to "test" him for the first time in a tournament. I pretty much know what to expect with mallus. He's just a ramped up dreadlord with no ward save.

Worhtless? I don't think so. Worth spending points on multiple small units? I don't think so. I do think they would be a cool upgrade on a unit of 15-20. Why spend the points on them? you can't charge the turn you come in from ambush, so you can use them to throw at a war machine. You just need a few hits and a few wounds to get the job done. Might as well, give it a shot. If you are playing someone with a gunline and they have a few war machines or a war machine and another unit in the back field. You may be able to take care of both those unit in 2 turns instead of 3.