MexicanNinja

I love what they are able to do and really wanted them in my Dwarf army.

Ok then, I stand corrected. 5 models it is.

NTK, yeah, I'll have to look into the Look Out Gnoblar. However, I've been watching a lot of GT coverage, and they are getting "LOOK OUT SIR!" rolls in units of MI and/or MC with only 3 rank and file models.

Munkie, that is not what is written in the rulebook. MRB, page 83: A rank of monstrous cavalry needs only three models to count for rank bonuses, steadfast, and so on. Again, the above quote is what is in the MRB. It clearly states they only need three models for rank bonuses, steadfast, and SO ON. The "and so on" is what covers them only needing three models for the "LOOK OUT SIR!" roll.

Yes, the "and so on" includes the rule for "LOOK OUT SIR!" rolls. Any time the MRB refers to a rank and file rule, if you are MI or MC, you only need 3 rank and file models. The Look Out Gnoblar is an army specific rule. It is an updrade purchased for a character. An Ogre wouldn't get a "LOOK OUT SIR!" roll if they were in a unit of Gnoblar's. I would have to look at the army book; however, I think the rule is worded that you remove the Look Out Gnoblar instead of applying the hit onto a rank and file Ogre. It's just like tomb king chariot units. They are the only army which may have units of chariots. Those two rules only apply to those specific armies. Army specific rules overrider MRB rules.

That is incorrect. If you read the rules in the MRB for monstrous infantry and monstrous cav, it clearly states then they only need ranks of 3 instead of ranks of 5. The FAQ doesn't state anything about mountrous infantry or monstrous cav needing 5 models per rank. Again, I have stated that rank bonuses have nothing to do with "LOOK OUT SIR!" rolls.

Forming up in weird formations is key for my fast cav at times. I am against house rules which dictate how I must deployform units.

It means the following: If you have an infantry or cavalry unit with only 5 rank and file models and one of them is a unit champion you cannot make a "LOOK OUT SIR!" roll. If you have a monstrous infantry or monstrous cavalry unit with only 3 rank and file models and one of them is a unit champion then you cannot make a "LOOK OUT SIR!" roll. It has nothing to do with rank bonuses. However, this is the main reason I don't take unit champions in a lot of my units. If that unit, in my case infantry or cavalry, get reduced to 5 models and one of them is a unit champion then I am not allowed to make a "LOOK OUT SIR!" roll.

Raindog, of course you want to get the charge against the chariots. I was also using the cold one chariot as a specific example. They are a good throw away unit. I'm not arguing that at all. My main point was that it's all about how you redirect the units with your darts than just throwing them away. I've seen too many games when players just throw units out in the open willy nilly without taking the redirection of the charge into consideration. If you redirect properly, the throw away unit is worth it.

NTK, the conga line is also used for strategic moves and plays. Prime example would be with a brettonian army. I will give a few examples though: 1) You have a unit of 9 knights errant on the left flank of your army. Your opponent has 2 units of fast cav in front of them. You don't want those fast cav behind your lines. You then reform into a single rank of 12 to disallow the move behind your left flank. 2) You deploy you unit of 10 shooters (hand gunners, crossbowmen, etc.) in a single rank of 10 at the very front of your army to ensure they can maximize their shooting potential. The first time they are charged they stand and shoot. The second time they are charged they flee behind your lines to safety. You could apply the same shananigans with a single rank as you could with a conga line. Some tactics are more brutal than the conga line. Again, I have only seen the conga used with units of 10 skeletons from vampire counts. This isn't a common sight at most places, as it is easily countered by an experienced general. If you are seeing the tactic for the first time, odds are you won't make the same mistake against it again.

You don't close the door on war machines, you just need to contact any part of the war machine. You could be looking at the front of the war machine and hit it at a weird angle. Everything is measured to and from the chasis, not a base.

MRB, page 83: A rank of monstrous cavalry needs only three models to count for rank bonuses, steadfast, and so on. MRB, page 93: "LOOK OUT SIR" A "LOOK OUT SIR!" roll cannot be made if there are less than five rank-and file models (including the musician and standard bearer, but not the champion) left in the unit.

You gain the benefit from the banner until you leave the unit. Yes, you get the +1 from the banner of swiftness for a character charging out of the unit. It's just like a character in a Stubborn unit. Until he leaves the unit he is Stubborn.

Monstrous cavalry only need ranks of 3 to count as a rank. However, like I stated above, you need a complete rank of 3 and if one of the 3 is a unit champion then you wouldn't get a "look out sir" roll.

Ok, I've done some research. Here are some answers to your questions. 1) A character mounted on a monstrous beasts follows the rules for monstrous cavalry. 2) Under the character rules they follow the rules for characters and also gain the rules for the type of mount they are riding. This would mean that your character on a daemonic steed gains the monstrous cavalry rule. 3) I was incorrect, you only get "look out sir" rolls from units of the same unit type. 4) If you want to protect him you will need to put him in a unit of 3 skull crushers. However, if you upgrade one of them to a unit champion then you would need a unit of 4.

Slayers are only S3. They would be S5 when charged by a chariot. Cold one chartiots are T5. 6 attacks hitting on 4's, 50% chance to hit, so 3 hits 3 hits needed 4's to wound, we'll round up the 50%, 2 wounds 3+ save goes to a 5+ 1-2 wounds to the cold one chariot. I'm not, by any means, saying it's a bad strategy. I just think you will need 2 units of 6 slayers to kill a cold one chariot is all. I think, the real strategy here comes from the redirection for the chariot to contact the slayers.

I will have to look at the specific wording of the rule. However, I'm pretty certain that they need to be the same base size, not unit type, to get the "look out sir" roll.

War machines are not required to have a base.

I think I will be testing some number later today with CoC and slayers. I'm guessing they should do 2 wounds on average, if all 6 drop to impact and attacks. 4's to hit, 4's to wound, chariot may save 1 on a 5+.

I totally get that hero. However, his list has a greater daemon on tzeentch. That is why I suggested only a single herald. He should get every spell he needs.

I have to strongly disagree about stating how many models must be in a rank. I know I use the tactic to shrink or expand my frontage when in combat to negate counter charges or to force a charge to my front rather than a flank. I have yet to see the conga line for Black Guard. I would openly let my opponent do that. They are wasting a ton of point on a 10 man unit just to stick a 1+ re-rollable in there. Here are the common conga's I see: 1) 10 skellies with 1-2 cairn wraiths in the front 2) Reform to a conga line, make a swift reform, enter a building The conga line opens up a very nice flank to your opponent. Also, black guard die to shooting, they only have a 5+ save. Whether people view the conga as a WAAC, cheesy, unorthodox, or unethical, it's part of someone's strategy. I would be like making a house rule that all armies with acces to war machines could only ever use 2, or that you could only ever attempt to to cast 2 spells in the magic phase. House rules which start to enfore playstyle is what usually turns people away from a group. Does the conga line upset me? No, there are plenty of other things I am concered about that a conga line. Have any of you ever complained when someone takes a character with a pistol in order to make stand and shoot reactions with handguns negate the long range modifier? I will also add, that when you do see these tactics that maybe this is what that player was used to doing because of the current meta in their area or gaming group. It also teaches others on how to deal with it. Here's an example, lots of people at WoW would ask me why I deployed my chariots sideways. Once I explained it to them, they just said, "Oh". Was it cheesy? Most likely. Did it give me extra movement during turn 1? It sure did. Has anyone complained to me about doing that? No, they have accepted it and either ignored it or overcame it. Scenario 2: Deploying a war machine on the max deploy line (say a hellblaster) sideways. Pivot turn 1 and now you can shoot into the enemies deployment zone. Cheating? I don't think so. I believe this is a great tactic in order to get an extra turn of shooting out of it.

Hero, I was only suggesting that 1 herald would do him just fine. Tzeentch heralds are meant to be casters. With the Greater Daemon, 1 herald, and 2 units of horrors, the third may be a waste of points. If you're not casting spells then you're not getting the potential out of your casters. We all know they don't do much in melee.

Just as Horde stated, remove the individual point values of items. I will say Tzeentch magic is amazing. Here are my suggestions: 1) Try to work in Beasts of Nurgle. They can cross the field real quick. Are great for redirectors and have the potential to deal with chaff pretty effectively. 2) Drop one of the heralds of tzeentch. Between the Lord of Change, 1 herald of tzeentch, and 2 units of horrors, you will be capped out in the magic phases. 3) For shooting support for the "big units"; i.e. monsters, solo characaters, etc, I would suggest a khorne cannon.

Just turn your cannon and fire or turn your leadbeltchers and fire at him.

CENTAUR DRUID....EPICLY EPIC!