Romes

now if I could only figure out where to register =P

OK I think I figured this out, I think SPDM 5 is a 2014 qualifier. I was surprised because previously there were no 2014 qualifiers after I got back to the NW. However, the date change (November to December) means there will be. So yeah, sorry for the confusion. Looks like King of Cascadia (linked about) is scheduled, and SPDM 5 is a 2014 qualifier.

Here is half the answer! http://dimensionalcascade.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=397

Is Sparkle party 5 a 2014 or 2015 qualifier? The wargamersusa has the regional master's listed as the last qualifier, but I haven't heard anything about the time or location for that?

That's not really what I'm saying, sorry I wasn't very clear. What I mean is, the people making the swedish comp do not consider the end times rules part of the main rules. The balancing of the point values between models thus does not reflect the changes to the meta that would result from allowing end times rules. The daemon prince listing is only a piece of evidence that it's not something they account for. Once you know it's not something the current scoring system accounts for, because of how the cumulative taxes are written, you know that the possibilities allowed by 50% lords are not part of how they score any given unit. For example, in your situation, double old blood would be silly to tax in the main system because doing it always means giving up a Slann. However, under end times rules, you could have a Slann and two old bloods, which increases the potential power level of a build with 2 oldbloods, and may mean additional comp on the second old blood. A more complex problem is that when you change the lord and hero allotment you change the relative value of all of the other units in the game. Take VC for example, the comp associated with a large unit of blacknights changes if all of a sudden a list can run two vampire lords. Also, a lot of choices are not comped hard specifically because by taking them you forgo other choices. When you relax the restriction, and taking A is no longer prohibitive of B, it changes the value of A. Basically, in order for swedish to be accurate under end times point breakdown, it would have to be completely re-written. I think the important thing to understand is that the swedish comp system is designed to try to prevent people from taking lists that are of a power level disproportionate to their score, so they would absolutely tax daemon prince 3 and 4, because the redundancy provided by those units would be really strong in some matchups. Because the system is effectively trying to "close all the holes" with it's constant updates, changing one of the core assumptions around army balance, how many points of lords and hero's you can have, invalidates the current version of the document. It's not that you could never have a swedish comp for the end times rule set, it's just that it doesn't exist now, and it's not really transferable between the rule sets. This is sort of separate but: So far, as far as I can tell, most of the major comp/tournament groups that are active are not considering the end time rule set as part of the core rules of the game, but rather as an optional supplement intended for casual play like storm of magic. It's possible that will change as time goes on and more books come out? It will be a busy fall!

Swedish doesn't currently account for this because it would require huge revamps on the global taxes. Swedish technically scores all of the heros and lords, but because it doesn't assume this change, their relative value does not take into account the possibilities opened up. The easiest example is that there is a "2nd daemon prince" cost in the warriors of chaos section which is higher than the cost of the first, however there is no "third daemon prince cost" (or event forth!), those taxes would be even higher.

I realized I haven't actually supported my own perspective and just referenced the other discussion as to why the answer is not a clear yes. Brother Glacius's post and quotes are very useful in explaining why I don't think you can. "Models with the Random Movement special rule do not have a Movement characteristic..." ""provided that no model ends up moving a number of inches higher than double its Move value." This, on it's own, RAW, I think is sufficient, twice null is still null, and good job finding the quotes. OK so say we're OK breaking/re-interpretting that rule, say we say they can still reform despite the replacement effect. If you ignore that rule/interpret it differently, what can you do? Then what? How MUCH can you reform? Up to twice the movement value listed on the model profile? No, because that value is null(replaced). So, the only option is to have the amount you can reform be determined by the die roll for the random movement. This means there is no possibility of reforming before moving because you don't know how much you can reform. So, IF you read it as a replacement affect that then interacts with the movement restriction distance, at best you could reform once, after the move, which would not allow the strategy that the OP experienced. However, while that's a possible valid interpretation, I think it's a stretch. Random movement as a subphase replaces normal movement, it replaces the value, the rules for wheeling/pivoting, the rules for charging, it replaces the movement statistic itself. While I think there are a number of ways of explaining why it doesn't make sense for models to be able to reform during the subphase, either the interaction of the rules above or the breakdown of when what manuevers can be performed when, what it comes down to for me is that the RAW say you can't do it for specific and almost random/unintended reasons (0 movement), and so you can't, but the RAI really lay out the random move as a replacement effect for the normal movement phase, which is why there's so much contradiction in the other rules, it's not supposed to be an issue in the first place. TLDR - the RAW interpretation forbids it, but not really on purpose, they just happen to because of particular rules interactions the RAI think of the random move phase as a replacement effect and don't allow it, which is why the rest is contradictory, they never intended the rules to interact.

Hi Sylvos, Did you read through the supplemental link I provided? I re-read it after reading through this. What you've listed, to me, are "rulings", not rules. Random movement is very different than the movement of fast cav, as fast cav can reform when they move during the remaining moves subphase. Note that fast cav cannot reform during the charge subphase, nor can skirmishers, so comparing the random mover rules to the fast cav rules doesn't make sense, it's apples and oranges. Note that it's not about whether or not the unit charged, it's about what actions are legal to take during what subphase of the movement phase and the interactions between the special rules. Please read through the extended discussion of this debate as linked previously, it's very informative, and some of the people going back and forth on this complicated issue are the most respected members of the community from two regions of the country regarding rules. My point there is only that if the debate is significant enough for it to be complex for them, this is not an issue that can be easily dismissed as clearly a legal move. While I tend to think the move is not legal, it is at best unclear. *EDIT: Sylvos, I should add that I appreciated the other part of your response regarding positive behavior on the forums and within the community. In my experience 90% of rules played wrong in warhammer are out of legitimately not understanding or disagreeing about a complex and ambiguous rule set rather than trying to gain unfair advantage. I do not think I said anything that could be construed as a personal attack, however if I did I apologize.

You'll probably want at least 2 core chariots. They're good and versatile. If you want to run a dragon they actually get even better, because they provide target saturation for a limited number of cannon shots.

oh. sorry. duh =/

The master's FAQ and ETC FAQ deal with this by disallowing movement where a single model exceeds double it's base movement value with the exception of characters joining units, in which case they have to move as little as possible if they exceed double their movement value. This works really well! However I agree with Zealot, that's how the base rules are written and if your event isn't using a FAQ, it's not really the players fault for performing a legal maneuver. =/

Hi Nathan, You should read through this thread: http://www.wargamersusa.com/showthread.php?tid=2465 The summary conclusion (to me) is that you cannot perform a reform during the random movement sub-phase.

The nice thing about the solo beast is it moves as a lone monster. Especially since beasts can't have musicians it's useful to have the flexibility of say, 12 inches of lateral or backwards movement that you can do with one beast. It's also the only real sacrificial piece of chaff in the list. And the three wide block is steadfast against lone models until one dies. because of those advantages I think you had the right unit size breakdown. Agree on lore of Tzeentch! pew pew

On special characters in Swedish - The issue I have with special characters in swedish is that my understand is that most of the tournaments which are used to inform the swedish comp don't allow special characters, so sample size is too small for those units, and thus their comp value is more guesswork than the normal selections. Certain special characters have cumulative issues that are hard to pin down in value. For example, how much of a hit should hellebron be, does it matter how many witch elves are in the largest unit? You could argue a larger witch elf unit should make her cost more, you could also argue the opposite, or that it's a non-issue, because with most armies good opponents will just redirect and force overruns on a 900 point deathstar and ignore it. I'm not sure which is right, and it's hard to tell without a good number of tournament results. On the other end of the spectrum, sure Sigvald is bad, but is he that bad? What's an actual fair value for a character like that? Well, since he's a bad SC, he probably doesn't get run that much, and thus the data points just aren't there to provide an informed point cost, it's mostly guesswork. That said, for the most part I think sweidsh still does a good job with special characters and I really don't mind them in that environment, as most of the good ones are taxed within what I would feel like is the right range, I'd just prefer them not in if I got to be dictator of the world. =P

It's definitely easier to go up and down. Going up accidentally overcomps, while going down accidentally undercomps, which seems like more of an issue. Since I'm currently playing in a different region with lots of power gamers and lots of comp I thought I'd share our experience on the discussion of how power gamers tend to react to it. In our region competitive power gamers are almost universally the strongest proponents of comp. In my experience most power gamers aren't bad people, they're just looking to play a strategy game with the goal of winning. Comp just makes the strategy game more balanced. (of course there are some exceptions to this that want to bring a DP and 3 chimeras against a bunch of spearmen, those people don't like comp, but they tend to be a vocal minority rather than a real chunk of the player base!)

Swedish comp rewards less used builds, but be careful because it still punishes: Heavy magic unit redundancy extremely large unit sizes. So, if you're running an off the wall build, and your score is lower than you would expect in swedish, look at the reasons why and mess around with the build a bit . Swedish works in general between 2 and 3K as long as the armies are the same size with the following major exception: Many armies have ballistics skill shooting caps or cumulative war machine penalties which go up exponentially. Because of these soft caps, which affect shooting as a whole, rather than taxing individual units, If you play at 2k instead of 2.4k, these penalties will feel light, and shooting armies will be comparatively strong. If you play at 3K the soft shooting caps will feel more onerous than intended, and shooting armies will be comparatively weak. There are a couple other similar cumulative affects that distort the effectiveness of the costs when you go significantly away from the designed point total, such as multiple fliers. In general, it tends to work best close to the design range, I'd be comfortable with it between about 2.2k and 2.8k at the outsides from a balance perspective. Other point levels it works, but not as well.

Just wanted to throw in that you can get the 3 tree + 30 dryad box set very cheap on ebay, like $160. I like the choice of high magic on the caster lord - those counters can make the flying caster much more durable.

Hello all. My wife and i will be moving back to Portland(probably, though maybe Seattle) in November and I wanted to stop and say hi since I started lurking here to check out the warhammer fantasy scene. I hope to be back in time for a couple of the end of the year Northwest events and am definitely planning on attending the regional master's event. A little about me: I play Warriors (which I choose to be power gamey and then decided I loved the visual style I could make) and Dark Elves (which I choose for visual style before the new book came out and they ended up being back at the top and power gamey) I play in a lot of tournaments in the mid atlantic region and would like to continue to do so when I move home (Portland). My wife and I haven't lived in the Northwest for about 6 years now and REALLY miss it. I'm a BI analyst (reporting and integration) and my wife is a children's librarian.

Hi, I was just reading through this out of curiosity and was wondering what the reasoning/logic behind ruling 3 was as this is not how I have seen it played. As far as I can tell, the bow of Loren allows you to fire with the number of attacks on your profile +1. The two hand weapons have no affect on the number of attacks on your profile. So, the sniper shot you get 1+1. The multiple shots is multi-shot 2, which also does not increase the number of attacks on your profile, so you can, as far as I can tell, fire 2 or 2. Could you please elaborate as to where the three comes from? Thanks!