Sugarlessllama

Camaraderie and fun, that's why I'm here. :D

That is fine. Like I said, I will comply with the requirement. I am just a fan. Nor will I likely become a fan in the future.

Le sigh. Screen shot with no text. I still stand by my statement. Including WYSIWYG in the rules is an effort to sell more models. Which is fine. But I don't think it adds anything to the game. Nor does in make the event more inclusive. What if a player wanted to bust out their old hive gang from Necromunda using the Genestealer rules? I think that would be awesome, especially from a narrative standpoint. But using WYSIWYG, they can't. So... you know... less awesome. But as I mentioned before, I am not running the event. So I will comply with WYSIWYG. I am just noting that I am not a fan, and why I am not a fan.

I understand the your point. However, I think the point being raised was that sometimes someone has a faction that can play, but the models in their collection are not appropriately equipped. And rather than going out and purchasing additional models, someone might like to play with the models that they already own. And while there is some idea that a tricky player could pretend to have equipment for their unit model that they don't have the points for, this is defeated by simply referring to the Kill Team roster. Because, just speaking for myself of course, if I didn't already have the models in my collection, or were required to buy more models in order to be WYSIWYG... I wouldn't play. The hobby is already expensive enough as it is, I don't see the need to arbitrarily make it more expensive in order to play the game at a smaller scale. That just seems silly to me. However, I am not running the event and so it is not my decision. And I do look forward to participating. :D

I would love to participate. I'll be using my Skitarii Kill Team.

Um, wouldn't that be solved by looking at the Kill Team Roster?

I'll give it a try: Skitarii.

RC is the closest FLGS to my house, so I will likely be there often. And I also have a small AoS army. :D

Well I don't know who is taking point on this. I am just following up on a discussion started on the FB page.

Hey hey! With the new Shadow War rules being released I am sure that there are plenty of people interested in a campaign. So....

DasBox, thanks for putting on the event. I had a great time. :D

I am not saying that tournament players don't like balanced games. I played in Warmachine tournaments for about 10 years, and I loved the balance of the game. I am just not 100% convinced that the 40K tournament crowd would accept a balanced game at this point. And I understand that this train of thought is completely a result of my own decision making process. When I got into Wargaming I knew I wanted to play in tournament style events, and I wanted to be on even footing regardless of the army I picked. So I researched all the games I knew about at the time and decided upon Warmachine. I decided this because the game met all the criteria I was looking for: active community, aggressive play, balanced and tight rules, models I thought looked cool. And in time my criteria changed; and Warmachine no longer fit those criteria. Did I complain on the internet about how bad the game was because it didn't work the way it did? Nope. I just packed my army up on a padded box and put it in storage. I moved on to a different game that met my criteria. So when I see 40K players kavetch about the balance of the game, or how it isn't good for tournaments it blows my mind. Of course it doesn't work well in tournaments; that isn't the goal of the game. And if tournaments are your goal, then why don't you play a game designed with tournaments in mind? To me, it is like saying "This wrench sucks at hammering in these finishing nails. Why did Snap-On make such a crappy wrench?" Well, I don't think that they made crappy wrench. You just need a hammer. But if Games Workshop made something that was both a hammer and a wrench, I don't think it would do well. Because what if the allure of 40K at this point in time is that it is a bad tournament game that gets played in tournaments? That the balance of the game is so off, that all the average schmoe has to do in order to do well is field the latest codex. That power creep means that you don't have to be super great at the game to get wins? That simply having a "super friends" new hotness will face roll your way to victory. Maybe you won't win the national title, but it will put you in the running on your local circuit. And based on how often I see tournament players swap armies based on what the new hotness is, I think I might be on to something. I mean sure, there are always going to be die hard players for their "weak" faction that are going to do well (Will Pagani I am looking at you). But they are notable because they are the exception to the rule. Nobody remembers the latest guy to win an event with 50 scatterbikes; but everyone will talk about the guy that won with Orks. But that doesn't mean that there aren't way more people excited at the prospect of fielding 50 scatterbikes than there are about Orks. But that is just my two cents.

I might be able to make Thursdays, but I am more likely going to be able to do Saturdays since I live on the Portland side of the river.

Well I guess it would depend on what it was replaced with. Personally I would love it if they replaced it with the AoS Hero Phase. Each wizard gets to cast X number of spells, and each spell has a casting value of X, and you can only attempt each spell once. It would also be awesome if you could pick your spells rather than roll for them. After playing so much AoS, I am so done with random command/warlord traits and spells. I really don't think that making them random does anything positive for the game.

Well if you are a lore oriented player going to a tournament, well then you should expect a kick in the groin. But when at an open play night at your FLGS, that should be very different.

So you are starting a SW:A league at Dice Age games? What does is it going to be happening? Depending on the day I would love to participate.

Well I suppose that depends on why you play 40K. If you play 40K to have the "hardest" list in the hopes of winning a tournament. Then yes, this is something to take into account when facing off against an opponent. However, that is not why I play 40K. I play 40K because I think it is one of the better systems out there to play narrative battles and campaigns. The ability to make your own factions, characters, and lore really gives me the ability to tell a story on the table. Where I think the problem really arises is when narrative and tournament players mix. If one players comes to the table with their fluff based army with named characters and units, and sets down across from a tournament player with their Strength D-Palooza-jink jank-frankenarmy, designed to murder everything on turn 2.... well someone is going to be having a bad time. I know I have experienced this myself, which is why I am so careful about the venues I choose to play now (it has been well over a year since I stepped into GG). I value my time too much to have a lame match. Will the new edition help rein in some of this insanity? I don't know. I hope so. Maybe if allies rules are revisited, or army construction, or any number of things that would make the game less... breakable(?) than maybe the game will become way more fun. At least that is what hope for.

While that is most likely true, I meant the power of D weapons or the access to them.

It is matches like these that make me happy that we are getting a new edition. I am really hoping that some of this stuff is really going to be toned down going forward. I'm sorry that you had a lame match Pax.

Well I can't really give a good comparison since I haven't played Necromunda. However, I can say that I had a really good time playing it. The game is fast and furious, the cover rules make sense, and you are rewarded for playing tactically. It is an awesome game.

Well there has been a lot of sore feelings presented not only on this board, but also other boards (namely Bolter & Chainsword where I spend way too much time). I attempted to address some of these feelings by saying that yes, they were valid feelings to have; but no, the sky is not falling. In the course of my post I mentioned that under the current edition of the rules I really only see Space Marine, Tau, and Eldar armies; and that I would love a new edition to drop so that maybe Ork and Tyranid players would come out and play as well. This led to a discussion of Orks being in some tournaments, and a retort that the tournament data showed that there weren't as many ork players at adeptacon, and etc. But it I think it all comes back to this: I think there is an strong desire for more variety in the types of armies being played by both casual and competitive players. As I can only speak for myself, but I was getting a really burned out on Space Marine on Space Marine action all the time. Maybe if the other dudes in Power Armor had spikes it would be alright, but nope... not so much. However, I didn't even notice it until SW:A dropped and I was playing against a couple different kills teams. I was blown away when someone showed up with an Ork kill team and I had a blast seeing angry green maniacs on the table. The way the rules were written, every faction has a solid chance of winning and so I was seeing lots of different factions showing up. And I really, really enjoy it. So that is where I am coming from. Rumors are abounding that there is going to be some major overhauls to 8th, and that we can take several design queues from both AoS and SW:A. And if that is in fact true, I think 8th is really going to be something special.

I'm Will. :D

Sounds good. 6 pm works for me. :D I see you this Thursday! And we shall battle!

Well Warmachine is a very tightly knit, and well balanced set of rules designed for one thing, and one thing only: tournament play. The rules team issues out errata to all units in the game every three months or so based upon tournament results and balance in tournament play. And this is addition to weekly rules rulings presented on the boards. And at least one of their world champions has been hired on to the rules team full time. So the deathclock format is designed to encourage fast and aggressive play that is enables large tournaments (100+ players) to be completed in a single day. When compared to the Guardian Cup which takes a whole weekend, and doesn't have 50 tables going at the same time. In other words, it actually is a competitive game. 40K... not so much. To people that say otherwise I have two words: codex creep. It doesn't happen in Warmachine, and it doesn't happen for a reason. PP wants every single faction to have a chance at winning the top table of the Iron Gauntlet (the global tournament circuit PP runs). And to be honest, it is fantastic. Because it isn't a faction that wins, it is the player that wins. But with that said, I don't play Warmachine much any more. I really like that I have a DIY Chapter of Space Marines. I like being able to write the lore for my army myself, and to craft the narrative of their battles. I find it more satisfying than "Oh, I guess we are fighting in the Thornwood again. And Reznik is still not happy." or "Oh look, Reznik v Reznik". That doesn't happen to me in 40K and I really appreciate that.

Well OK then. Would you be interested in Thursday at Red Castle? If I plan now I can leave my office early and try and get there around 5ish.