To all Potential Nid Players

[huggies01]

From what I hear from the potential nid players and players that have already spent the investment of years on the 5th edition codex, is nothing but whining and complaining. Yeah G stealers are the exact same. Yeah G dubaya is  definitely is trying to enforce the purchases of models such as the Hive Crone, Exocrine and Obviously the Haruspex. Oh well, the Tervigon got way worse. Well I say good. Now is where the boys become men. And any brave girls become women. I not only stress, but challenge us nid players to show the rest of the gaming world what happens when you mess with the hive mind. Now I tell you, If you spend more time whining to the Norn Queen about the unfairites of the new codex and the old tervigon build, I challenge you players to invent and show these prissy players what a bug under the hive mind can do. We are the best. And the most feared. If you don't believe me, come back in a few months when I dominate the tournements with this godsend of a codex. Let us rise, insects of death. Let us make a name for which every faction that moans our name will shutter with fear. Unlike other pampered armies we have seen the worst, we have lived as outcast. Now it is our time to reign. All hail the Queen.  

[intrizic]

Pssh I've already cooked up 3 potnetiallly meta SHATTERING lists to unleash on the crunchy on the outside tender on the inside, you might call them space marines, and the super tender, you might call them eldar.

[fluger]

Then there's this:  "Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke(UK) branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

"They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

"So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

"Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

"We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time."

[huggies01]

My point exactly. They will only ever hate the nids. It is our job to be the fly in the ointment. (Pun fully intended)

[andozane]

So if the 'nids at the Squats, who is going to eat the 'nids? :)

[Munkie]

"Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

 

Wow. I'm glad petty emotions like spite are factors in the final draft of the codex. God, GW is an awful awful company these days.

[JMGraham]

Shae, when you talk like that, I get all a-tingle in my nether-regions.

 

I'm gonna have to sit down with the codex to decide if I'll stick to my "Nids as my new army" guns. I'm not as invested in it as the current Nid players, and the type of army I wanted to play doesn't seem to exist anymore. I don't like the "medium" Nids, and they seem to have gotten the best attention.

 

If that write up on the path to the codex is true, then shame on GW.

[huggies01]

I do agree. Shame on GW. Which is why my lists will not entail the new and better models. 

[sergentzimm]

Then there's this:  "Speaking about the codex today, a few things fall into place. One of the older members of the Stoke(UK) branch is regular play tester for the pre release codex's as he has a number of armies they use when the designers want to try out their rules. Well it turns out he basically advised the design team that the NID codex was far too week and he basically walked over their armies, so they kept adding and changing the rules until it became such a mess that they stopped play testing the book. The white dwarf article was done in the released format because it became obvious that things did not work. They even toned down the riptides load out and tailored the report so it looked as if the new NID's could stand up to the best units in the game. it was a lie.

"They basically ran out of time to publish the codex. To make it right, they would likely have to start over again, and the old one was already way behind.

 

"So somewhere along the line someone high up forced the release, the Models were obviously ready and the penny counters wanted a return, as it costs to sculpt, and they don't want molds sat there for another 6-12 months. The inventory was in supply or on order, so it had to be pushed out.

 

"Add to this that the reason we don't have the doom or parasite or pod was a hang over of the chapter-house law suit. When that went to court GW decided that they would not be making these models as the cost of the molds and time was too expensive. So the safest way to remove influence from chapter-house, was to make any of the disputed models obsolete. Remove them from the codex.

 

"We already had the design team at Nottingham give interviews saying they would put right the 5th edition codex, i wonder what they are going to say this time."

 

This really takes my already low faith in the company to an all time low. The only way I can see them salvaging themselves is to go private or get someone with balls to push something back.

[intrizic]

I agree with you zimm

 

Shea, none of the new models are worth it, the crone is not an answer to flyers imo, nor is the haruspex, nor the exocrine.

[intrizic]

I think biovores need some serious attention, I agree with fluger's statement that Heavies are the best in spot in this dex. I think list building should generally start there as to how you want to play your army. With the exception of genestealers, most old units got better

[huggies01]

Exocrine is really the first model to give the nids some ap 2 shooting. Hive crone with 4 tentaclids haywire is pretty much guaranteed to glance a stormraven to death. Especially with re-rolls to hit. Hive Guard are better now. Haruspex, that thing will draw fire like none other and it is cheap for what it does. Heavy is a good section. Especially carnifex brood now. 

[intrizic]

you can only shoot 2 tentaclids ( such a bad word lol) a round, the crone won't live long enough to shoot all 4.  Haruspex...you might have something there, I'll need to see it on the board before I change me tune of no go.  As far as the Haruspex drawing fire, I believe that fire magnets can be cheaper and just as effective.  Hive guard, meh again for me.  Exocrine...you might have something there too, but my knee jerk is no.  There is way too much out there that can shoot them down without breaking a sweat.

 

You are the master and I am the padawan but I'm just not convinced those news units are very good.  I think a brutal mix of swarm, MC and buffs may be the way.

 

I misread the spore mine rules, the Fast Attack Spore Mine Clusters can be the business, but the biovore shots.....yeah, not so much.

[Hobbitron]

I really need to pick up my dex...

[PumpkinHead]

A few things I learned this past weekend playing at Casa de Fluger:

 

* If you are going to take a Crone, take 2.

* The Mawloc is kind of fun. S6 AP2 large blast is very nice for cutting large holes in massed units.  But again, if you are giong to take 1, you might as well take another.  (Really sucks when you scatter and only hit 3 models though :( )

* 24" range on the exocrine isn't horrible, it is the same range our hive guard have and we have gotten used to getting them into good firing positions.  Just keep a toe in area terrain and it should last you a long while. Especially if you have a more forward threat.

* Deathleaper is a great warlord. He reduces a characters LD and he can only be snap fired at. So no templates can be fired at him. He makes a good counter assault unit.

* For objective missions, you are better off putting the objectives near the center line of the table, as you will be pressing forward to get to that optimum 24" range.

 

This dex isn't absolutely horrible, but it does force the need to have lots of synapse around.  I am leaning towards the Russian WW II tactic of quantity over quality.

[Hobbitron]

So, spent some time with the Codex last night. I think after looking and talking with Corey my overall impression has improved.

 

Some good things about the dex:

• I think the new MCs look like fun. Crone definitely has some potential to give a list 5 FMCs.
• Cheaper Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes, and Flyrants.
• Outflanking 30 termagants with devourers (while this could be done in the previous dex, it was more expensive).
• Venomthropes got a nice boost. Shrouding all around means pretty plentiful 3+ cover saves.
• Spore Mines got quite a bit better. They can be boosted to higher strength, and more control over what they do and how they explode.
• Deathleaper can only be snapfired at! He's a force to be reckoned with.
• With no spore pods, there will be more first turn presence on the board. It will definitely change up play style.
• Regeneration got pretty badass.

Some neutral things about the dex (either good + bad, or expected nerfs):

• Bone swords are AP3, and cause ID on a 6 to wound. They were a bit OP before. Now it's a bit more appropriate, though AP3 makes me sad.
• Psychic Powers. No more BRB access, but some of the new powers are rather nice. FNP for two units, pinning checks at -2 LD can be handy for shutting down units with skyfire for an FMC list. With synapse being more important, even the primaris isn't terrible.
• Shadows in the Warp. It changed, better in some ways, worse in others.
• Ripper Swarms got more expensive. While this is technically a bad thing, since no one used them because they were terrible, now they're just MORE terrible.
• Mawloc no longer moves models out of the way and can mishap as a result, but gets to attempt to clear the way twice. And the 1" rule doesn't apply, so he stands a decent chance to kill all models in his way with 2 S6 AP2 templates that ignore cover. However, the template is not the same size as the base, which seems like a bit of an oversight. Ending up in the middle of a blob squad could make it difficult to find your way out.

Some bad things about the dex:

• Greatly increased reliance on synapse means an opponent killing synapse creatures will hurt much more than usual. Instinctive Behavior is more game changing than previous.
• No Doom or Spores. They were big in 5th. Spores especially.
• Primes went up 45 points base, with nothing to show for it. Even arguing that Synapse is more important, so their value has increased doesn't justify 45 points for a 3+ save T5 model that would have trouble finding a place to hide to take advantage of the T5.
• Bio-Artifacts. They range from meh to downright bad. Especially for their point cost. 45 points to give yourself +1S, +1A, or +1AS, but ONLY during the assault phase? Nothing that can take it is particularly resilient to shooting, and is a good target due to being a synapse creature. So, why not prevent it from ever making it into assualt?
• Tervigons and Hive Guard. Tervigons needed a nerf, I will gladly admit that. But, 35 points extra, losing the sharing of glands/sacs, 12" on hurting gaunts on death, and spawned units can't move/assault, and losing reliability of psychic powers? Going overboard. And as for Hive Guard, they went up 5 points and lost a BS. They were a good, solid buy before. They do ignore cover now, but BS 3 is a big difference.
• Genestealers unchanged.
• Tervigon Subterranean Assault special rule for allowing other units to come out of reserves through the hole remains unchanged. This is in my mind the pinnacle of idiocy of rules writing. It's a single special rule that is almost impossible to make use of because there is no control over when things come in. You aren't having to balance an entire unit, or army. It's a single special rule. Idiotic.
• Pyrovores unchanged.

Overall I'm just excited to get some models on the board. Already got a few lists in mind, and will need to look into a few new models probably (even if it's just Carnifexes because I have none!). Not sure when will be a good time seeing as we've got an almost 3 week old baby, but when the time rolls around I'm looking forward to it.

 

I know there is more bad than good in this post, but that's just from not remembering some of the other good things.

[huggies01]

Also lets not forget that warriors and Shrikes now have assault grenades. I am so glad the Tervigon is dumbed down. Also Lashwhips giving a +3 initiative means I7 for warriors. I like that Deathleaper is opportunity to make a sneaky list. With pheromone trail and infiltrate Deep strike can be pin pointed. Swarm lord (still my favorite) has the option to become a power house of a unit. He and tyrants can get the s10 lance. Oh and tyrants +1 b s .mmmmm

[Hobbitron]

I'm meh on assault grenades for warriors. Honestly they're better off shooting imo. I agree with the Terv being dumbed down, but I just think they went too far. I'm not sure I'd field one now. 195 points base, and if he dies the turn he spawns, you almost guarantee a unit of termagaunts dying. I'd rather not chance it.

 

Also fun are Spore Mines. The list I wrote up has 3 units of 6. With Deathleaper to attempt to drop them precisely. The point being that I would force my opponent to kill 18 T1 models, or they will come back to bite him on the ass on the following turn. Especially if I can drop them right and surround a unit or two.

[Hobbitron]

So why not... SPAM OF BODIES:

 

HQ:

Flyrant w/ devs

Flyrant w/ devs

 

 

Elites:

 

1x Zoanthrope

1x Zoanthrope

1x Zoanthrope

 

Troops:

10x Termagants

10x Termagants

10x Termagants

10x Termagants

10x Termagants

10x Termagants

 

Fast Attack:

Harpy w/ Cluster Spines

Hive Crone

Hive Crone

 

Heavy Support:

Mawloc

Mawloc

Mawloc

 

I would consider swapping up elites some to move some venoms in for zoans for better cover for the fliers. Also, still have 20 points to play with in the list. Start with all but the Mawlocs on the board. Hide the terms well and use Zoans as babysitters and a little power in the backfield. Then just fly and Mawloc the [big bad swear word] out of things.

[Munkie]

I'm meh on assault grenades for warriors. Honestly they're better off shooting imo.

Give a mouse a cookie....

[huggies01]

Give a mouse a cookie....

Now that you mention it I am getting a little bit of cotton mouth. What drink goes well with cookies. Hmmmm??

[PumpkinHead]

He'll ask for a glass of milk.  :)  My kid is obsessed with this book.

 

Because we can at the moment, I want to work a venomthrope into a bastion and then place the deathleaper on the top to man a quad gun.  A warlord with shrouding, stealth, and can only be hit on 6s.

[huggies01]

I thought in the BRB it says bids never can.

[PumpkinHead]

It was the Nid FAQ that disallowed Nids from firing gun emplacements.

[intrizic]

another note that I read somewhere else, ty Reece, Read the shrouding rule: I believe it states, and I'm paraphrasing here, if one model in the unit has shrouding, that model gives the rest of the unit shrouding.  So that helps a little.