OFCC List Finalization: Empire

[Murphy'sLawyer]

So after long thoughts and looking over my games I might have got my List idea finalized. I do want to pass it by you guys to make sure I am not getting out of the spirit of the event with my list. I have almost all the models except 2 which makes this list desirable, so keep that in mind.

 

Lords:

Grand Master, Runefang, Shield, Luckstone. 249

Battle Wizard, lvl 4 Lore of Light, Dispel Scroll. 225

 

Heros:

Captain of the Empire, BSB, Dawnstone, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield. 141

Warrior Priest, Warhorse, HA, Barding, Ogre Blade, Charmed Shield. 128

Warrior Priest, Shield, Armor of Destiny. 117

Master Engineer. 65

 

Core:

15 Inner Circle Knights, Musician, Standard Bearer, Preceptor, Steel Standard. 440

40 Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sergeant, Detachment 5 Archers. 305

10 Handgunners, Musician, Marksman, Hochland Long Rifle. 130

 

Special:

3 Demigryph Knights, Musician. 184

3 Demigryph Knights, Musician. 184

5 Pistoliers, Musician. 100

Great Cannon. 120

Great Cannon. 120

 

Rare:

Helblaster Volley Gun. 120

Griffon, Swiftsense. 170

 

Total: 2798

 

The idea is to move and hit fast and hard. I did kind of fall away from a main Hochland idea to a more Knights of the Broken Sword concept. They brought some Hochland men for support but this is a Knight list.

 

Question is is it too hard?

 

[Drak]

I wouldn't want to play it seeing two canons and a volley gun. other than that it looks fine.

[Swan-of-War]

I'd say its a bit on the hard side, but take that with a grain of salt as I'm a notorious softy.  You might break up the Inner Circle into a unit of 10 and then have a 5-man unit running as a flanker or cannon-guard. 

 

Will you be putting three characters into the Halberdier unit? Lvl 4, BSB, Warrior Priest on foot?  Or maybe the Lvl 4 bunkered with the handgunners?  Seventeen guys in the Knights is pretty heavy (Grand Master, Warrior Priest, 15 knights).

 

I'd play this as an Oblique Line and just roll things with the Knight bus and Demigryphs on the flank.

[Andrewgeddon]

Seems a bit hard for OFCC, IMO. Light magic, 2x Cannons + Hellblaster, big Knight bus...

 

At the very least the warmachine section would probably need to be toned down.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Got it got it. I can break down the Knight unit into 10 and 5 no problem, and I use light for its buffs not Banishment. Also I haven't got the second cannon yet but after some games I have had my single cannon taken out by my opponent's multiple artillery turn one before I shoot so the second is there to make sure I get one shoot in the game.

 

I could drop the second cannon and go with a level 2 wizard lore of the beast or the Luminark of Hysh.

 

I really do want to bring a fun list for me and my opponent.

 

@Swan. I am putting my level 4 in a archer bunker but could be insane and mount him on the Luminark for juicy cannon targets. Wait a minute.

[Drak]

the changes your considering do a lot to make this less threatening/discouraging to play against.

[Raindog]

I would strongly consider dropping one cannon. 

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Done. Now I just pray I don't lose my one cannon first turn every game. (you know what I'm talking about Raindog. )

 

So I have never run a Empire Chariot so the LoH is a mystery to me. It seems to want to be behind my infantry supporting them and giving them a ward save. May seen silly with a 6+ but Fire Contingent, or whatever it is called, has laid waste to more than half in a turn before and a ward save would be nice against those uber death spells.

[Raindog]

Done. Now I just pray I don't lose my one cannon first turn every game. (you know what I'm talking about Raindog. )

So I have never run a Empire Chariot so the LoH is a mystery to me. It seems to want to be behind my infantry supporting them and giving them a ward save. May seen silly with a 6+ but Fire Contingent, or whatever it is called, has laid waste to more than half in a turn before and a ward save would be nice against those uber death spells.

I promise you I will take no War Machines this year..........

 

The LoH is a support weapon. It is not ever meant to fight.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Question, is a Captain on a Pegasus considered OP in a list like mine? I remembered I have 3 Pegasus lying around and I could use one of them.

 

Bah, too many choices.

[Swan-of-War]

No way - Captasus are great!  They're not too hard to kill yet can take down a warmachine or backfield wizard in a snap.  Go for it!

[MexicanNinja]

For me, I look at this and go..hmm. brutal list. Knight bus, 2 units of demi's, a level 4 light, 2 cannon's, and a helblaster. Tough list. However, on the flip side, if you get charged...the only threat is the grandmaster and demigryphs. Still, it's on the tough side. I'd rate this as a 4.8.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

New list taking suggestions in to consideration.

 

Lords:

Grand Master, Runefang, Shield, Luckstone. 249

Battle Wizard, lvl 4 Lore of Light, Dispel Scroll. 225

 

Heros:

Captain of the Empire, BSB, Fullplate, Dawnstone, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield. 141

Captain of the Empire, Pegasus, Fullplate, Shield, Lance, Dragon Helm.

Warrior Priest, Warhorse, HA, Barding, Ogre Blade, Charmed Shield. 128

Warrior Priest, Shield, Armor of Destiny. 117

Master Engineer. 65

 

Core:

10 Inner Circle Knights, Musician, Standard Bearer, Preceptor, Steel Standard. 440

40 Halberdiers, Musician, Standard Bearer, Sergeant, Detachment 5 Archers. 305

10 Handgunners, Musician, Marksman, Hochland Long Rifle. 130

5 Knights. 110

 

Special:

3 Demigryph Knights, Musician. 184

3 Demigryph Knights, Musician. 184

5 Pistoliers, Musician. 100

Great Cannon. 120

 

Rare:

Helblaster Volley Gun. 120

Griffon, Swiftsense. 170

 

Total: 2800

 

Am I 4 or below?

 

Also if I am taking 1 wizard of Light and no other items that cast Banishment what is it about the Lore of Light that is better than the other Lores? Life has Dwellers, Metal has Final Trans, Shadow has Okkam's and my Dark Magic Sorcerous kicks my LvL 4 light in the nuts before she flays him into tasty morsels. Light is nice but with no Council of Light it doesn't seem too powerful........ Or did you leave something about the Lore I don't know yet? 

[Andrewgeddon]

 

Also if I am taking 1 wizard of Light and no other items that cast Banishment what is it about the Lore of Light that is better than the other Lores? Life has Dwellers, Metal has Final Trans, Shadow has Okkam's and my Dark Magic Sorcerous kicks my LvL 4 light in the nuts before she flays him into tasty morsels. Light is nice but with no Council of Light it doesn't seem too powerful........ Or did you leave something about the Lore I don't know yet? 

 

It's not that a level 4 on Light is OP, it's probably just that it's the "best" lore for Empire, even without the big Banishment. As your list stands now with the revisions (which I like very much, BTW; not a push-over, but nothing over the top), a level 4 on Light is just fine. I think the problem before was taking Light on top of all the other goodies,  2x Cannons, Knight bus, etc. 

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Got it, thanks everyone for your input.

 

Now all I have left to get is a Griffon. Hopefully someone can help me with that. (thinking I can just convert a island of blood one by removing the rider and greenstuffing some feathers.)

[King Mekhet]

It's not that a level 4 on Light is OP, it's probably just that it's the "best" lore for Empire, even without the big Banishment. As your list stands now with the revisions (which I like very much, BTW; not a push-over, but nothing over the top), a level 4 on Light is just fine. I think the problem before was taking Light on top of all the other goodies,  2x Cannons, Knight bus, etc. 

 

Really? I've always thought that Heavens was a better lore for mounted Empire...

[Andrewgeddon]

Really? I've always thought that Heavens was a better lore for mounted Empire...

I say "best" lore because that seems to be the general consensus on "the interwebs". I don't play Empire and have only played against them a couple times, so I couldn't really say which lore is better.

[King Mekhet]

I say "best" lore because that seems to be the general consensus on "the interwebs". I don't play Empire and have only played against them a couple times, so I couldn't really say which lore is better.

 

The internet only says that because of the double-banishment build (which I believe they're now the only book that can still do it). War Altar, level 4 light (power stone), two level 1s on light (dispel scroll and forbidden rod), celestial hurricanum. That gives you a beastly banishment battery, with 2d6 S6 on the level 4 and 2d6 S7 on the altar, and enough power dice generation to run it.

 

But unless you're taking all of those pieces, light is just a reasonably useful buff lore. You can help your guys hit or not get hit, maybe shut down a magic phase with net, or clear some chaff with the magic missiles...but that's about it. It's still your boys doing all the heavy lifting, and if you messed up your play on the board there's nothing in Light that's going to bail you out (no dwellers, no purple sun, no pit of shades or mindrazor).

 

If you're looking for a crutch lore then Life or Shadow both go very well with Empire. But honestly I think Heavens is the better lore if you're looking for something robust enough to compliment your play rather than dictate it. Harmonic Convergence protects your knights from rubberlancing or rolling the dreaded '1' on armour saves. Iceshard Blizzard helps you break foes in combat (and is probably one of the best sigs in the game). Curse of the Midnight Wind protects you from poison and killing blow, and makes you harder to hurt. And the ranged spells offer you a very strong, flexible toolkit. Comet is perfect for breaking up castles or crippling an opponent's back lines. Chain Lightning can do the same, and is even better against fliers. Heck...even the hex spells become pretty solid for dealing with fliers (cheap d6 S4 is nothing to shake a stick at).

 

The ranges are a lot better than light as well. 12" is reeeeeeally short when you get right down to it. I've run light with my Tomb Kings and it's frustrating how easy it is to venture outside that bubble, and when you've got some 800 points invested in squishy wizards you don't want to get super aggressive with them either.

[Andrewgeddon]

The internet only says that because of the double-banishment build (which I believe they're now the only book that can still do it). War Altar, level 4 light (power stone), two level 1s on light (dispel scroll and forbidden rod), celestial hurricanum. That gives you a beastly banishment battery, with 2d6 S6 on the level 4 and 2d6 S7 on the altar, and enough power dice generation to run it.

 

But unless you're taking all of those pieces, light is just a reasonably useful buff lore. You can help your guys hit or not get hit, maybe shut down a magic phase with net, or clear some chaff with the magic missiles...but that's about it. It's still your boys doing all the heavy lifting, and if you messed up your play on the board there's nothing in Light that's going to bail you out (no dwellers, no purple sun, no pit of shades or mindrazor).

 

If you're looking for a crutch lore then Life or Shadow both go very well with Empire. But honestly I think Heavens is the better lore if you're looking for something robust enough to compliment your play rather than dictate it. Harmonic Convergence protects your knights from rubberlancing or rolling the dreaded '1' on armour saves. Iceshard Blizzard helps you break foes in combat (and is probably one of the best sigs in the game). Curse of the Midnight Wind protects you from poison and killing blow, and makes you harder to hurt. And the ranged spells offer you a very strong, flexible toolkit. Comet is perfect for breaking up castles or crippling an opponent's back lines. Chain Lightning can do the same, and is even better against fliers. Heck...even the hex spells become pretty solid for dealing with fliers (cheap d6 S4 is nothing to shake a stick at).

 

The ranges are a lot better than light as well. 12" is reeeeeeally short when you get right down to it. I've run light with my Tomb Kings and it's frustrating how easy it is to venture outside that bubble, and when you've got some 800 points invested in squishy wizards you don't want to get super aggressive with them either.

Fair enough, thank you for the run down :) . As I've said, I've never played Empire before, I'm only going off of what I've played against and what I've seen online. Really I was just giving my "initial impressions" as someone who could be potentially sitting across from this list on the table. 

[MexicanNinja]

King, great analysis.  However, I'd even throw in that even having that spell, your opponent knows to stop it and then you toss more dice for a damage spell when you could be going for those great buf spells like speed of light.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

King, great analysis.  However, I'd even throw in that even having that spell, your opponent knows to stop it and then you toss more dice for a damage spell when you could be going for those great buf spells like speed of light.

Shhhhhh. Don't let everyone know that. I want them to save their dispel dice for Banishment so I can get off the spell I really want. Like Speed of Light.

[King Mekhet]

King, great analysis.  However, I'd even throw in that even having that spell, your opponent knows to stop it and then you toss more dice for a damage spell when you could be going for those great buf spells like speed of light.

 

Haha, yeah I pretty much plan on getting Banishment off once or twice in a game, and generally just at the mopping-up stage. Throwing 4 dice at boosted banishment essentially guarantees that your opponent is throwing 6 dice at stopping it. Cast it off two dice with a powerstone basically guarantees an early-game dispel scroll. That leaves you with a solid 3-6 dice to play with as you will. Honestly I didn't take the light council for Banishment: I took it because banishment guaranteed that my tomb guard would be hitting first, or my 5 snakes would output 35 ASF attacks, or my entire army could be immune to artillery fire 50% of the time.

 

That said, I found the banishment battery to be a really boring list to play, both with and against. The combination of short range, high cost, and high fragility really lends itself to a gunline-type playstyle that's pretty boring and static. At least with Tomb Kings. Once Bitten on Youtube ran the double-banishment battery and his list didn't seem too unenjoyable to run, but it certainly isn't the sort of thing that's appropriate for OFCC judging by my impressions from this forum (my gaming group went last year, but this is the first time I will be able to attend).