Chaos Psyker Question

[busbina]

In the Chaos book it states that you have to take a power from your mark (if you are marked). But now you get the primaris for free due to the new chaos discipline rule. Do you still have to take one?

Or can my Lvl 3 Sorcerer of Nurgle take all three powers from daemonology?

 

[pretre]

If you have to take a power from your mark, then you would still have to.

[andozane]

We actually played it differently...

 

We did the latter...since you get the primaris, we counted that as your "one" power.  But I could see it the other way actually...especially since it says "roll" for a power I believe.

[busbina]

Cause I am wondering for the 1000 sons champ. If he gets his primaris for free that would leave him eligible for something useful like prescience or invisibility. 

[AbusePuppy]

You are still required to take a power from your god's discipline- the "free" power is essentially what Marked psykers get in lieu of being able to ever qualify for Psychic Focus like other psykers can.

[busbina]

So thousand sons get two useless powers! OH THE POSSIBILITIES!

[VonVilkee]

I don't ever remember it saying I have to roll for a chaos power per the rule book we get the primaris in addition. I decide to roll biomancy, I will have my marks primaris so I'm not focused I take my rolls and then check my powers... At the end of generation I have biomancy equal to my mastery level and a chaos power... That meets all the restrictions I see.

[Malindle]

So thousand sons get two useless powers! OH THE POSSIBILITIES!

Y'know, of all the various factions to get "smite the enemy with dark magic," you think that it would be Chaos. But taken as a whole, those powers are so completely lackluster...

[AbusePuppy]

I don't ever remember it saying I have to roll for a chaos power per the rule book we get the primaris in addition. I decide to roll biomancy, I will have my marks primaris so I'm not focused I take my rolls and then check my powers... At the end of generation I have biomancy equal to my mastery level and a chaos power... That meets all the restrictions I see.

 

"If a psyker has a Mark of chaos, or is a Daemon of a particular god, they must roll at least one... of their powers on the table that corresponds to their patron deity."

 

Getting the power for free does not qualify- you must roll at least one power on your god's table.

[busbina]

Yup two useless tzeentch powers for the champ. Nurgle's are still the best, the primaris and Weapon Virus and both fairly decent. 

[Dr Dustynutts]

Every one gets this confused, because it not clear. Check it out.

 

Free powers, like ones listed in a unit entry or gained through Chaos focus are generated powers. In "The Rules", under psychic phase, in the section titled "Generating Psychic Powers" they talk about free powers vs random generation. Just to be clear any thing under the title "Generating Psychic Powers" is a generated psychic power.

 

In Codex: Chaos Space Marines there are two contradicting rules about generation of psychic powers. Under Marks of Chaos it says you have to generate 1 power (notice no "randomly" or rolled) from your patron deities discipline. Under psychic powers it says you must roll for one of your patron deities powers. So the real question is witch rule trumps the other.

 

It's my belief that the chaos focus is intended to fulfill the need to generate the deities power.

 

All my info is obtained through digital copies, just in case any one is having a hard time finding it.

 

Hope this helps.

[Guest]

"If a psyker has a Mark of chaos, or is a Daemon of a particular god, they must roll at least one... of their powers on the table that corresponds to their patron deity."

 

Getting the power for free does not qualify- you must roll at least one power on your god's table.

http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/22083-thousand-sons-the-unit-in-7th/

Already got a thread covering this one. If you've got more concrete reasoning than the above, I'd love the impute. At present, my CSM are waiting on a consistent ruling for their rules.

[Dr Dustynutts]

O.k.

 

Witch rule super cedes the other.

Am I required to generate one power or roll one power?

And why.

[WestRider]

That's the whole point of this argument. The Rules are incomplete and don't actually tell us.

[Steel Angel]

Look in the 40k rule book "Generating Psychic Powers" to generate means to roll. All psykers generate their powers by randomly rolling unless other wise stated.

 

So to generate and to roll are the same thing. so in other words focus powers are not generated their given.

[Guest]

Look in the 40k rule book "Generating Psychic Powers" to generate means to roll. All psykers generate their powers by randomly rolling unless other wise stated.

 

So to generate and to roll are the same thing. so in other words focus powers are not generated their given.

Issue is in regards to the CSM book, which specially adds stipulations to rolls, then we add the CSM FAQ which specifically adds additional psychic disipline access, but doesn't address how this interacts with existing CSM stipulations.

 

So, example, level 1 psyker with mark of tzeentch.

 

1 Chaos psychic focus for discipline of tzeentch's primaris power. No issues here except that prior to this, it would a roll on the deity's discipline which affects step 2.

 

2 Now, I must roll at 1 power from my deity and up to half. FAQ adds that any psyker may roll daemonology in addition to "those normally allowed..." So, RAW, I've got a level 1 psyker with either 2 tzeentch powers or tzeentch primaris and one from daemonology. I MUST upgrade to level 2 in order to field a psyker with any of the other psychic disciplines.

 

Remember that none of the above is directly FAQed to work with eachother, it just chops up their FAQ across two books and a PDF entry...

[Dr Dustynutts]

Look in the 40k rule book "Generating Psychic Powers" to generate means to roll. All psykers generate their powers by randomly rolling unless other wise stated.

 

So to generate and to roll are the same thing. so in other words focus powers are not generated their given.

You clearly don't know how to read.

EVERYTHING under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" is a generated psychic power, including.........free powers.

 

“In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.”

 

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” v1.0. Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

Also no where under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" does it say the only way to generate powers is to roll for them.

 

Let's clear something up. It is clearly the INTENTION of Games Workshop that chaos psychic focus is meant to replace the need to roll for the patron deities power. I know this because if I would get psychic focus because my level one Psyker with a mark of Tzeentch had to roll for a power it would make chaos psychic focus mute.

 

Ask any lawyer and they will tell you, it's not enough to know the law letter by letter but you must understand the intentions of the laws I order to apply them accurately.

[WestRider]

And you can read the minds (and thus the intentions) of the Dev team how?

 

Don't forget that Pg. 70 of the SM Dex says explicitly that Marked CSM Psykers must "roll" (not generate, roll) one of their Powers from the appropriate god's Discipline.

[Dr Dustynutts]

And you can read the minds (and thus the intentions) of the Dev team how?

 

Don't forget that Pg. 70 of the SM Dex says explicitly that Marked CSM Psykers must "roll" (not generate, roll) one of their Powers from the appropriate god's Discipline.

Those rules were 6th edition, before there was psychic focus, chaos focus, warp charge dice, and a psychic phase. It's out dated and any reasonable player would realize that. When they were made, in 6th, it made sense to make the Psyker roll on the appropriate god discipline because under marks of chaos it only says a Psyker must generate one power from that gods list. Now how ever they contradict each other because of chaos focus.

 

And I'm not a mind reader. I'm just really smart and reasonable. English class back in high school taught me how a sentence and paragraph are constructed, and how to understand what is obviously implied by headers and titles.

 

Trust me, I have fallen victim many times to reading only what I want to read, only to find my self embarrassed when corrected. This is not one of those times, for me, that is.

[galahad911]

You clearly don't know how to read.

EVERYTHING under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" is a generated psychic power, including.........free powers.

 

“In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.”

 

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” v1.0. Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

Also no where under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" does it say the only way to generate powers is to roll for them.

 

Let's clear something up. It is clearly the INTENTION of Games Workshop that chaos psychic focus is meant to replace the need to roll for the patron deities power. I know this because if I would get psychic focus because my level one Psyker with a mark of Tzeentch had to roll for a power it would make chaos psychic focus mute.

 

Ask any lawyer and they will tell you, it's not enough to know the law letter by letter but you must understand the intentions of the laws I order to apply them accurately.

 

 

WOW, and I thought I was a jerk... lawl

[WestRider]

Those rules were 6th edition, before there was psychic focus, chaos focus, warp charge dice, and a psychic phase. It's out dated and any reasonable player would realize that. When they were made, in 6th, it made sense to make the Psyker roll on the appropriate god discipline because under marks of chaos it only says a Psyker must generate one power from that gods list. Now how ever they contradict each other because of chaos focus.

 

And I'm not a mind reader. I'm just really smart and reasonable. English class back in high school taught me how a sentence and paragraph are constructed, and how to understand what is obviously implied by headers and titles.

 

Trust me, I have fallen victim many times to reading only what I want to read, only to find my self embarrassed when corrected. This is not one of those times, for me, that is.

And that's why GW puts Amendments in the FAQs, to fix things that were written for past Editions. Which they chose not to do in this case.

[Guest]

Those rules were 6th edition, before there was psychic focus, chaos focus, warp charge dice, and a psychic phase. It's out dated and any reasonable player would realize that. When they were made, in 6th, it made sense to make the Psyker roll on the appropriate god discipline because under marks of chaos it only says a Psyker must generate one power from that gods list. Now how ever they contradict each other because of chaos focus.

 

And I'm not a mind reader. I'm just really smart and reasonable. English class back in high school taught me how a sentence and paragraph are constructed, and how to understand what is obviously implied by headers and titles.

 

Trust me, I have fallen victim many times to reading only what I want to read, only to find my self embarrassed when corrected. This is not one of those times, for me, that is.

Are you just trolling? Your being rude and your reasoning is an RAI argument. If you want to say the same thing without being rude, try describing your ideas as your ideas, rather than wording in a manner that suggests people whom disagree are idiots.

 

Be nice. I like this forum, keep it nice.

 

I will note that it does work RAW, as confusing as it is:

 

-CSM primaris power of marked disipline. No roll here.

 

-1st rolled power must be rolled from either Daemonology or the patron god's table. This is because the FAQ clearly permits use of daemonology in addition to tables normally allowed, while codex specifically restricts to a single discipline.

 

-If a level 2 psyker, you may now take a second rolled power from one of the normal disciplines or daemonology.

 

-If level 3, you may now take a third rolled power from one of the normal disciplines or daemonology. You could also roll another power from the patorn god's table instead.

 

-If level 4, you may now take a forth rolled power from one of the normal disciplines or daemonology. You could also roll another power from the patorn god's table instead.

 

For intentions, yeah, I don't really think it's meant to be this confusing. I also think it would make a heck of a lot more sense if marked CSM units could only summon daemons of that god when using daemonology. I often suspect that the GW FAQs are copy and pasted from a more global FAQ, rather than addressing actual questions asked of the book/codex itself.

[Steel Angel]

You clearly don't know how to read.

EVERYTHING under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" is a generated psychic power, including.........free powers.

 

“In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.”

 

Excerpt From: Workshop, Games. “Warhammer 40,000 (Interactive Edition).” v1.0. Games Workshop, 2014. iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

 

Also no where under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" does it say the only way to generate powers is to roll for them.

 

Let's clear something up. It is clearly the INTENTION of Games Workshop that chaos psychic focus is meant to replace the need to roll for the patron deities power. I know this because if I would get psychic focus because my level one Psyker with a mark of Tzeentch had to roll for a power it would make chaos psychic focus mute.

 

Ask any lawyer and they will tell you, it's not enough to know the law letter by letter but you must understand the intentions of the laws I order to apply them accurately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

hmmm guess you missed the part where focus is in addition to not part of generating powers. The focus power is a bonus NOT your generated power.

[Steel Angel]

Also no where under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" does it say the only way to generate powers is to roll for them.

 

 

 

 

 

And umm yer it kind of does.

 

as stated in rule book.

 

"In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed – where this is the case, it will be clearly stated. These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

 

To randomly generate a psychic power, first choose one of the psychic disciplines known to the Psyker. Then, roll a D6 and consult the chosen psychic discipline"

 

so yer unless it's clearly stated in you codex the only way to gen. powers is to roll.

[Chappy]

You clearly don't know how to read.

EVERYTHING under the heading "Generating Psychic Powers" is a generated psychic power, including.........free powers.

This is your one warning. You will keep a civil tone in this forum, free of anything that is construed as a personal attack, or face censure. You may need to brush up on the forum code of conduct as well. This is not some trash talk forum where you come to abuse our players. Discussions are fine, even impassioned ones, but do not bring that trash here.

 

You have been warned.