fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thing that kills me about tyranid players is their unwillingness to evolve their playstyles. You've got fortifications, ally access to ALL armies via come the apocalypse allies, a great FW selection, and a dozen GW PDFs with new units within. And yet, you fixate on only your codex and complain that you don't have enough options. It is mind-boggling. Fortifications get used every once in a while by Nid players, but they have an issue that lots of their models can't even USE emplaced weaponry. CtA Allies are banned by ITC events and lots of others, so isn't really much of an option anymore, but when they WERE allowed, you had Nids plus Eldar being bros in space, so that did happen. FW selection helps, but mostly just the malanthrope. The new units on pdfs are pretty poor. Basically, Nids have a lot of selections, but so many of them are garbage that the "choice" really isn't. Essentially, if Nid players just don't mind losing a lot, they could play with all sorts of cool models. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 10 free drop pods.... Isnt that like 350 points for free? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yep. The Blood Angels have a formation that gives away 400 pts of free wargear. The Admech formation that gives a ton of free gear out I think hits around 600 pts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Blood Angels have a formation that gives away 400 pts of free wargear. The Admech formation that gives a ton of free gear out I think hits around 600 pts... Yeah, this is certainly in line. Unless they let you have free upgrades on razorbacks. then you can easily get 750 points. Or if Centurions get free Land Raiders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Fortifications get used every once in a while by Nid players, but they have an issue that lots of their models can't even USE emplaced weaponry. CtA Allies are banned by ITC events and lots of others, so isn't really much of an option anymore, but when they WERE allowed, you had Nids plus Eldar being bros in space, so that did happen. FW selection helps, but mostly just the malanthrope. The new units on pdfs are pretty poor. Basically, Nids have a lot of selections, but so many of them are garbage that the "choice" really isn't. Essentially, if Nid players just don't mind losing a lot, they could play with all sorts of cool models. Ever tried the Skyshield landing pad? That easily seems like one of the more OP options for bugs. 4++ against shooting for models on large platform is great for bugs. Especially if fielding the shooting bug units with range options. That Magos Machine spirit upgrade which allows automated fire at BS3 seems like it was made for armies like tyranids, who'd really only be firing at BS3 anyway. Really, though, any tyranid MC that can fit on top of a building would benefit greatly from the 4+ cover save and increased LOS. As for CtA allies, most events have a note regarding them being allowed on exception if the conversion fits the fluff (and the allies are reasonable). I think bugs and eldar walking hand in hand for no reason is horribly unfluffy and really shouldn't be allowed in events. That said, running Ordo Xenos and a bunch of "collared" tyranids could be fluffy, as could the mentioned infested marines or brain slugged eldar. You'd have to get the fluff down and armies with the fluff, but clearly broken would still probably not fly at events. Anyway, your call. I am not willing to invest in a tyranid army, so I'm not certain about any of this. I do know that tyranid players consistently complain about their codex not having enough options and it seems like they consistently play only the same options - from an outsider's perspective, it really looks like the tyranid players just don't try to to diversify their lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 From playing against a lot of Nid players since 4th edition and seeing their lists evolve each time to be optimized, I can tell you for a fact that your last sentence is dead wrong. 4th edition: all about Nidzilla with 6 carnifexes and genestealers. 5th Edition-6th Edition: Tervigons, Tervigons everywhere! 7th Edition: Flyrants and barbed hierodules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Even though we're off-topic, I'll continue going further. I dislike flyrant spam more than I dislike knights. I can do something about knights in most of my lists. Against Steve's Pentyrant, I just ignored them because I could do nothing to them. Against AP's trirants, I tried to hurt them and failed (and I had good flyers). Much rather deal with knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 From playing against a lot of Nid players since 4th edition and seeing their lists evolve each time to be optimized, I can tell you for a fact that your last sentence is dead wrong. 4th edition: all about Nidzilla with 6 carnifexes and genestealers. 5th Edition-6th Edition: Tervigons, Tervigons everywhere! 7th Edition: Flyrants and barbed hierodules. All tyranids running the same general list for an entire edition is not diversified. I think my last sentence is even more true if this quote is accurate. Marines aren't just running bike armies, in example, they are bringing a bunch of different armies. Yes, bike armies were/are common, but it isn't the only marine army out there. They are diverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Because their codex has more options. Which is what Nid players are complaining about. My point is that the power units have changed and Nid players have changed appropriately, so they aren't against change for some reason. So, the reason Nid players stick with only one build and complain about it is not because they are the problem, the dexes are the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Because their codex has more options. Which is what Nid players are complaining about. My point is that the power units have changed and Nid players have changed appropriately, so they aren't against change for some reason. So, the reason Nid players stick with only one build and complain about it is not because they are the problem, the dexes are the problem. Agree to disagree. I really think the players are lacking. Sorry. You have a ton of options and you spit at them and continue to complain about the only options you count as options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Counterpoint: Lictorshame. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Per Iuchiban on Warseer Chapter tactics are: Ultramarinres: - Can use one battle doctrine (Tac, Dev or Assault) once per game. Can use Tac once, Dev once, and Assault once. White Scars - Reroll when running - Bikes get skilled rider, and +1S to HoW attacks Imperial Fists - Reroll "1" to hit when using bolt weapons (Bolt pistol, boltgun, heavy bolter, assault bolter and combi-weapons) - Reroll to penétrate against buildings. Devs and Dev cents have tankhunter SR. -Black Templars - Crusade + Adamantium Will - No Libs - If a unit loses a model during any shooting phase, that unit gets Counterattack and Rage. Iron Hands - Characters and vehicles have the "It will not die" SR. Techmarines have +1 to repair - Non, vehicle models get FnP (6+). If model already has FnP, gains +1 instead. Salamanders - FnP (4+) vs flamers. Reroll to wound and to penetrate when firing flamers. - All characters improve one weapon to Mastercrafted Raven Guard - Shrouded during until turn 2. May add +1 to night fight roll - May use jump packs both in Movement and Assault phase. Reroll to wound HoW attacks. Some info about the Special Characters Kor'sarro Khan - Gives Scout to the Bikes in his army - Give 1D3 victory points if he kills the enemy warlord in a challenge. Warlord trait: 12" bubble of rerolling L tests Vulkan - No changes Warlord trait: FnP Shrike - No changes Warlord trait: Fear. Fear tests with 3D6 Lysander - No changes Warlord trait: FnP Kantor - Sternguard vets have objetive secured SR - Oath of Rynn: same Warlord trait: FnP Helbrecht - No changes - Warlord and unit have Furious charge Grimaldus - Cenobyte servitors give FnP at 6" - Units in same Detachment use warlord L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Agree to disagree. I really think the players are lacking. Sorry. You have a ton of options and you spit at them and continue to complain about the only options you count as options. Ok, so basically, anyone that plays Nids is an idiot then? What's Occam's razor on this? That the Nid dex is pretty [big bad swear word], or that EVERY SINGLE NID PLAYER is too stupid to figure out something else. And this goes for the whole [big bad swear word]ing world? Like, Nid players in Spain that are using dual Flyrants are just as dumb as the ones in Oregon? Come on, Pax, this argument of yours is completely terrible. Any real Nid players want to step up? I don't even play Nids and I find this whole thing incredibly insulting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Agree to disagree. I really think the players are lacking. Sorry. You have a ton of options and you spit at them and continue to complain about the only options you count as options. As a nid player myself, I have to concur that -useful- options are pretty limited. I think what fluger and others might be suggesting is that, if the nid player cares about -winning-, their options are pretty limited. If winning isn't as important - then sure, they have a wide range of models to choose from. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Raven Guard - Shrouded during until turn 2. May add +1 to night fight roll - May use jump packs both in Movement and Assault phase. Reroll to wound HoW attacks. Shrike - No changes Warlord trait: Fear. Fear tests with 3D6 Obviously, shrouding > stealth, and the bonus to get night fight means that 66% of the time they'll have a base 4+ cover save going for them turn 1. I'm glad they kept the jumper bonuses as well. However, without scout, they're going to be in a lot of trouble unless they are podding in. I hope they at least fix Shrike so that he can actually join a unit... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Lysander - No changes Warlord trait: FnP Dear God, why? He's already a tank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 The Blood Angels have a formation that gives away 400 pts of free wargear. The Admech formation that gives a ton of free gear out I think hits around 600 pts... Interesting. I know with the Guardian host in the Eldar book, I could potentially score 3 free weapons platforms (possible 90 points total). But free transports for everyone is definitely really nice! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Dear God, why? He's already a tank. This makes me want to use MS paint to put Lysander's face on a Thomas the Tank Engine body... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indytims Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 This makes me want to use MS paint to put Lysander's face on a Thomas the Tank Engine body... ...or popping out the top-hatch of an M-1 ! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Iron Hands CT for IWND on 12 Drop Pods and 2 Dreads for the lols and 6+ FNP on the 62 Marines Two Demis for Full Company: Captain - 90 Chaplain - 90 4 Tacs with Combi-Grav and Grav Can, Drop pod with Deathwind - 125/ea 2 Tacs with Combi-Grav and Grav Can, Drop pod with Locator Beacons - 125/ea 2 Assaults with 2 Flamers in Drop Pod with Deathwind - 90 ea 1 Devs with 4 GC and Rerolls in Drop Pod - 215 1 Devs with 4 GC and Rerolls in Drop Pod/Locator Beacon - 225 Dreadnought (MM/PF) in Drop Pod/Deathwind - 110 Dreadnought (MM/PF) in Drop Pod/Deathwind - 110 Aegis with Comm - 80 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ok, so basically, anyone that plays Nids is an idiot then? What's Occam's razor on this? That the Nid dex is pretty [big bad swear word], or that EVERY SINGLE NID PLAYER is too stupid to figure out something else. And this goes for the whole [big bad swear word]ing world? Like, Nid players in Spain that are using dual Flyrants are just as dumb as the ones in Oregon? Come on, Pax, this argument of yours is completely terrible. Where are we getting name calling in this? I think the bug players found a list that works in 7th for winning and are simply not trying other options. I find this lack of diversity annoying, but it hardly matters until you start hearing the tyranid players then complain that the only build tried is the only viable build. Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of SM players that have only fielded a bike army in this edition. They found the army that works and haven't strayed. It isn't a bad way to win games, but just because they only try the one build is not an indicator that the other builds don't work. There is no idiocy in fielding a working army because it works and not wanting to try other options. That said, complaining about a lack of options when your lack of options relates more to the player deciding that the options don't count, is a foolish argument. Tyranids have tons of options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Tyranids have tons of options. I'm glad that you, as a non-Tyranid player, have figured this out, and literally ALL other tournament-focused Nid players have not. It's too bad that even though these guys are smart enough to win big tournaments like 11th Company and LVO they just don't have your incredible powers of list building to figure out alternate builds from the myriad of options in the Nid dex. Even though they have clearly changed tactics from book to book and have changed how they play each time, they just can't do it within the same codex. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm glad that you, as a non-Tyranid player, have figured this out, and literally ALL other tournament-focused Nid players have not. It's too bad that even though these guys are smart enough to win big tournaments like 11th Company and LVO they just don't have your incredible powers of list building to figure out alternate builds from the myriad of options in the Nid dex. Even though they have clearly changed tactics from book to book and have changed how they play each time, they just can't do it within the same codex. You keep bringing this back to comments of intelligence. Let me re-post this because you don't seem to be getting it. There is no idiocy in fielding a working army because it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 You know how you can say one thing, but then have everything else you say countermand what you say? That's what I see going on here. If you are saying that EVERY SINGLE NID PLAYER IN THE WORLD is refusing to find other builds, then you are saying that they are idiots in no uncertain terms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Iuchiban at warseer wrote:This is for the Gladius detachment. Benefits of the Demi-Company are: - Tactic Doctrine may be used once per game (cumulative with other doctrines) - They get objetive secured Everything gets free transports and Obsec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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