barca Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Podcast: http://www.wwpd.net/2016/10/why-we-fight-ep-7-tanks-tracks-bang.htmlHere's a summary of the podcast from Hasty Attack: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/705833.page;jsessionid=D80C1DF23F42C11CF106D7DD46AB51E1Thread: Subject: Re:Flames of War v4 coming in March..Posted by Ghaz on 2016/10/19 13:41:22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 ugh. I think I may be sticking with v3...that just sounds awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 1. I have not listened to the entire podcast (137 min), so I have no immediate opinion. 2. Official announcement not made yet. Wait and see what details are. 3. Speaking for myself, and perhaps some percentage of the Rose City Dukes and Duchesses, try first, then form an opinion based on experience. 4. Time-wise, this indication of a new version should not be a surprise: 3 yrs, 6 yrs and 6 yrs between editions Flames of War rule book, 1st ed. - 2002Flames of War rule book, 2nd ed. - 2005Flames of War rule book, 3rd ed. - 2011Flames of War rule book, 4th ed. - 2017 By way of comparison, WH40k version changes (yrs between editions: 6, 5, 6, 5, 4, 2): Rogue Trader (1987)Second Edition (1993)Third Edition (1998)Fourth Edition (2004)Fifth Edition (2008)Sixth Edition (2012)Seventh Edition (2014) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 If there is sufficient participation for both 3rd ed. and 4th ed., I am willing to try organizing regular gaming sessions for both: one version group on Thursdays, and the other version group on SAT or SUN (1-2 weekends /month). I did not suffer too much cognitive dissonance going from FoW (v.3) to Team-Yankee and back again. It was challenging, but not impossible. As some, or many, of the current local regulars try out Team Yankee, it may become easier for them to transition to version 4 of FoW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm not questioning the need for a new edition. I'm questioning this seemingly moronic point system. I do not see how in the world they are going to take all of the permutations of a 1500 point system and cram them into a 100pt system. The only way to do that is to severely strip down the options available for each platoon...if not get rid of them altogether. And that would be a tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I like the current rules quite a lot. I have not played Team Yankee (and i won't lie, it hasn't exactly been high on my to do list). I cannot explain why i do not gravitate more to it, but the bottom line in any gamiong group is, you have to actually have people who want to play before "how cool" the game is will matter. I know of no one in Olympia that plays it regularly enough for me to invest. Having said that, I am obviously interested in what they will do with a new edition. I think you always have to give a new edition the good old college try for about twenty games and see what seems to be working...and what does not. what I fear, having lived through it, is that we have another "8th Edition Warhammer Fantasy" situation on our hands. 7th Edition Warhammer Fantasy is almost universally hailed as the most mature and best version of the game that came out. Everyone agreed it had enough kinks that an 8th Edition would eventually make sense and indeed 8th Edition came. the game was written EXTREMELY clearly and the illustrations and rule book were superlative in quality. 8th Edition turned Warhammer Fantasy into a wasteland of players. It was so poorly received after the initial rush of enthusiasm that the entire hobby more or less ended. they had to scrap everything and made a childrens book to replace it (four pages long so literally the most absurdly watered down thing you could imagine) and scrapped the entire universe, remaking it with new "lore" and mocking the investments of thousands. So having been through that I am always somewhat cautious in my attitude towards a new Edition now. Until that happened, I had never experienced the shock of essentially having my serious investment turned to dust. I am going to give it every opportunity because I have spent the money already and I love World War II lore in general. Let's cross our fingers and hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 The shock or pain of transition will come slowly to the local tournament scene, as our plans for the first half of 2017 address: 2016 FoW v3 LW NOV TANKS-giving 2016-2017: FoW v3 LW campaign, DEC-FEB 2017 FoW v3 EW - FEB tournament - PDX 2017 TY escalation FEB to MAY 2017 FoW v3 LW - MAY Enfilade There is nothing compelling us to adopt quickly. The first time that we are likely to consider a formal competitive event (tournament) for v4 MW is OFCC - EOM July Since the RCDD group is organizing the FoW participation in that event, we control the rules version and period played. For the near-term, my thought is to ease into v4 after it comes out, and make a decision after 2 or more months which direction we will go. To the best of my knowledge, we have had few, if any, of our regular players going to FoW Nationals recently. So if we stay retro, or adopt slowly, we are not holding anyone back, competitively (yet). As for investment = dust, less so with historical miniatures. They might rotate from storage to tabletop and back to storage, but my historical mini's retain some value. I still have most of the mini's I bought in the last 30 years. With systems like Kings-of-War, historical figs can mix with fantasy models. And as backup plans: Stay with 3rd ed: Acquire all of the FoW 3rd ed handbooks (almost there now) Buy a few spare copies of 3rd ed mini rule books to loan out. Split between 3rd and 4th ed Try other rules: Other recent rule sets in 15mm WWII (BKC comes to mind) Follow Jesse Lowe's lead and adapt non-15mm hist rules to 15mm scale (he has done this with Bolt Action) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroMoon17 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I don't think we have enough details to know what is going to happen with a Flames of War v4. The fact of the matter is we know only three things: 1. They are changing the points to 100 scale from 1500 scale 2. We are getting a v4 3. They are starting with a mid war update w/ new plastics I for one remain optimistic. Every time a new version of rules comes out there's a lot of skepticism, but Battlefront has had good rules in v1 of Flames, and it's only gotten better with each release. Current trends point to v4 being another step up. Honestly I can't think of any rules in Team Yankee that would not make Flames of War better for example: 1. You can still hit things needing a 7. You have to roll to hit on a six, and then reroll to hit on a 5+, similarly you can roll to hit on an 8, need to roll two sixes. 2. Every gun has a Moving and stationary firing speed. Makes for more depth as now you can have different guns fire at different rate of fire on the move instead of everything gets halved. 3. Breakthrough Guns (called Brutal in TY) require infantry to reroll their successful saves instead of eliminating their saves altogether 4. Artillery - You can call down artillery anywhere on the board, including smoke bombardments on your own troops in order to help them advance, or take cover 5. Its much shorter, Team Yankee's rule book shortens down the rules from almost 300 pages in Flames of War, to around 40 pages for Team Yankee. This is a huge relief to new players, as they can self-teach themselves instead of having to rely on other to show them the ropes. I've had several people turned away from Flames of War because of the large complex rule set. So overall I don't see anything in the Team Yankee rules that I dislike, and many things could really improve our current Flames of War rule set. Team Yankee does not lose the tactical depth of Flames of War, but it does reduce the complexity that is a barrier to new players. In short Team Yankee is easier to learn, harder to master. Note: I am also of the opinion that the change of how the points work is simply ridiculous, I seriously hope they change their minds on this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Gould Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 ...all of the permutations of a 1500 point system and cram them into a 100pt system... When everything is currently a multiple of five, it's really a 300-point system. Shifting to the card system allows them to tweak the values to make up more granularity. For example, separate numbers for assault/skill/remount as they do in Team Yankee rather than have everything tied into a single stat. You don't need a half-point cost if you can tweak the value of the unit to make it a round number value instead of just rounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Yall forget to mention we would have to buy all of the books again for our armies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Is the glass half-empty or half-full? I will wait and try it out. Each version pleases some, ticks off others. I will still have fun, and still have great models. The only thing I am concerned about is fragmenting the small group into even smaller numbers of people. So we all move forward together, or stay retro together. As long as we avoid splitting up, most other things I can adapt to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Yall forget to mention we would have to buy all of the books again for our armies?Since it took five years to get 22 books out, what makes you think they will all become obsolete or reprinted overnight, or even in a year? Besides, the cards may come out as separate packs, or with boxes, to bridge the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Well also...for me... i have played essentially the same German army I started with. Panzergrenadierkompanie. Ive basically never needed more than two books and a rulebook. So cost-wise, im not daunted. I'm not doomsaying either. I'm just gunshy after Warhammer Fantasy. It truly was a gut punch. In early war i pretty much have... Japan. Likelihood is I'll just keep playing it to become more adept so that adds a book to the cost i spose. Anywho, I just want it to be as fun as I find it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 v.4 QUESTIONS AND INPUT: If you want to voice your opinion or have questions about v.4, go here and join a constructive discussion: Forums > Flames Of War News > Product DiscussionVersion 4 in march!!http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=127&aft=575585&afv=topicPortal » Board index » Flames of War » FoW- General ChatQuestions for Petehttp://forum.wwpd.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20227&sid=41efd1fcd0e04d15af621c4153cd9547 Questions for Pete from WWPD Why We Fight PodcastJump to first new postLukehttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=3&aft=575621&afv=topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 So I've listened to the podcast (the Pete part anyways). So I'm feeling a little better about it. A bit confused how v4 will support every LW and EW book, and yet MW is going to change to a 100pt system. Wouldn't that also mean that the current point system for MW would also be supported? I am not thrilled with the fact that my forces of war will be rubbish for MW. Hope they toss a bone to people that bought those lists and do something for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 5, 2016 Report Share Posted November 5, 2016 Midwar is my favorite period. I am sure it will not be as bad as all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noland Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Hanaur: Ed and I play T.Yankee...just at 6mm scale. Very fun and super cheap tonged into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noland Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Uggghhhh....all those books, going to waste on the rules update. So frustrating unless they have a calculator to support conversions. But I highly doubt that will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 6, 2016 Report Share Posted November 6, 2016 Hanaur: Ed and I play T.Yankee...just at 6mm scale. Very fun and super cheap tonged into. I haven't played Team Yankee, ever. Never even seen the rules for it. Just heard tales of it basically. You should explain it to me sometime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpoli7 Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I've got the book, Josef, if you want to borrow it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Free TY stuff The first two docs are helpful even if you do not have the rulebook, yet... [PDF]Field Manual 101 - Flames Of Warwww.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/FM101-FAQ.pdf[PDF]Team Yankee Quick Reference Sheet - Flames Of Warhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/TY-QuickReference-A4.pdfhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/TY-QuickReference-A4-small.pdfhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/TY-QuickReference-A3.pdf[PDF]More Missions for Team Yankeehttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/Team_Yankee_Expanded_Missions.pdf[PDF]M1 Abrams - Flames Of Warhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/MERDC-Templates-Abrams.pdf[PDF]High Res Templates For All German Vehicles - Flames Of Warhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/Leopard-Vehicle-Templates-HI-RES.pdf[PDF]Download a PDF version of the British Marking articlewww.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/BAOR-Markings.pdf[PDF]Four MERDC Templates - Flames Of Warhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/MERDC-Templates-All.pdf[PDF]MERDC Templates - M113http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/MERDC-Templates-M113.pdf[PDF]MERDC Templates - M113 Variantshttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/MERDC-Templates-Variants.pdf[PDF]MERDC Templates - M109http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/MERDC-Templates-M109.pdfhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/Petrol-Station-Extras.pdfhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/FastFood-WindowLabels.pdfhttp://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/TeamYankee/BillboardSignage.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 sure. Sounds like a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 When u don't have "read-ables" get "view-ables" How to Play Team Yankee - Part One (6;47) How to Play Team Yankee - Part Two (11:12) How to Play Team Yankee - Part Three (6:15) How to Play Team Yankee - Part Four (11:04) How to Play Team Yankee - Part Five (11:57) How to Play Team Yankee - Rules Focus on AA (12:01) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Oh, and we get the V4 rules for FREE!!! (EVER see GW do that??!!) I would refrain from making a GW / BF comparison ... Phil is a war gamer and the original force (for the most part) behind BF ... GW does not have any of the original crew and is so corporate now. As for new source books ... it is what it is ... I've been playing 40K since 88 and that's just life in the GW world. Also played FOW since it hit the shelf and again ... deal with it ... you don't need every resource book that comes out. If you do ... wait till they have a sale for Pete's sake. I have listened to Phil on the podcast and I see his reasoning and I feel that he is aware of what is at stake. I also get the impression that he is not going off the deep end here folks. Wait till we have a better idea of the shape of things to come. Plus if you get the new rules (for free) and you don't like what you see ... just stay with V3. This is a no lose situation in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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