Munkie

I played my 3rd battle with the new dwarves against Lizardmen. We played Meeting Engangement. Let me rant in advance: I don't like most of the Fantasy missions and I really hope they change it up in 9th ed. I don't like that there are missions where your army doesn't act like it's supposed to. Missions should be designed to give you a goal and test whoever is best at accomplishing that goal. Creating an obstacle, and seeing who is best at overcoming that obstacle does not a good mission make. But I digress. My opponent had: Slann w/ Loremaster (high) and some other gear that didn't really come up (probably a scroll) lvl 1 priest w/ heavens 1 skrox unit w/ 3 krox and many many skanks (30?) 2 units of 25ish Saurus 2 units of 10 skink skirmishers 1 unit of 20ish TG Ancient Steg Troglodon w/ channel changer 2 units of 1 salamander So my hammerers and one of my cannons decided to wait out the start of the battle (grrr...) and his skink priest did as well. I rolled up hatred for the whole army again (I haven't not had that yet!) The game started off pretty unimpressively on turn 1. I had no shots with my cannon on his monsters (we had a lot of LoS blocking terrain) so it instead wounded a kroxigor. The rest of my shooting was firing long range at skirmishers and so wasn't terribly effective. In turn his shooting was pretty unimpressive. Despite getting 2 fairly solid shots from the salamanders, he didn't do all that much damage to the Longbeards. On turn 2, my hammerers showed up, and tried to line up for a sweet flank charge on a block of saurus moving behind my lines to my war machines. But I was an idiot and should've just accepted the charge. Since I set up on the flank he was able to just barely march out of my charge arc. Then he got Walk Between Worlds to zoom all the way over to my war machines. The hammerers were left out in the cold. My cannon killed the steg and I shot one kroxigor down (and a few skinks) with irondrakes. Gyrocopters were dropping bombs on sallies but failed to take care of them. My opponent charged at my Longbeards with his TG but failed the charge. When he cast Walk Between Worlds, the Slann did the str 10 template and killed a chunk of TG--not good when sitting in front of Longbeards with 2 thanes and a runesmith. The salamanders again both flamed the Longbeards and did some damage but I still had about 3 ranks or so left. Man that Rune of Grungni was awesome for me. His skrox unit charged the irondrakes but I was able to kill another krox and reduce the last to 1 wound before he struck and killed 1. Skinks did nothing. On my turn 3, my cannon decided to come in, I used it to block the saurus from charging my more important organ gun. I charged into the TG with the Longbeards. My cannon lined up a shot on a salamander and troglodon and killed both! My Irondrakes killed the last krox and a handfull of skinks. The skinks did nothing. My Longbeards killed all but 3 of the remaining TG. Dwarves with hatred on the charge are just brutal! On his turn 3, he charged the cannon that just wandered in from the board edge. Out of the 6 saurus swinging, he killed one crewmember and I did nothing back. But I held due to stubborn. I felt bad about that, they should've stomped me flat! My irondrakes killed a few more skinks and they did nothing but still held due to being steadfast and close enough to the general. My longbeards finished off the last TG and put 2 wounds on his Slann. The Slann still held though. We called it there. On my next turn, the Slann was gonna die, the skinks in combat with the irondrake were probably not going to be steadfast anymore, and the 20ish saurus in combat with my cannon were about to get rear charged by hammerers. He still had another block of 20 saurus on my extreme right flank who were in prime position to attack the irondrakes in his next turn, but that was almost all he had left on the table. I think in my next battle I will swap out the organ gun for the flame cannon. The organ gun has mostly been falling on its face lately. In the last 2 games, I've played a total of 5 turns. In 3 of those 5 turns, it has managed to misfire with one of its dice--after Rune of Forging! So something that should happen 1/36th of the time is instead happening 60% of the time. Not that I expect this statistical anomaly to continue, but this battle with so many skirmishers did highlight that maybe it would be good to include something that doesn't need to roll to hit. Anyway, I haven't used my flame cannon since...before the last dwarf book, so it's high time I give it another shot.

Well I wouldn't go so far as assuming people at the GTs have bad intentions. It is an incredibly easy mistake to make because phrases like "and so on" don't really belong in rules. It's the kind of conversational language GW can't seem to get away from. For that matter, having 4/5 of a rule copied and pasted from a previous page, but as that paragraph taxed them to exhaustion they just tell you to look at a different page instead of putting the remaining 2 or 3 sentences in there. And finally, the expression "rank-and-file" also is very misleading. There is no definition anywhere in the book and it seems to imply ranks in it. The closest thing I could find is in the Forming Units section on page 5. It talks about how units are set up in ranks and files and is why they sometimes refer to basic warriors as rank-and-file troops. So "rank-and-file" basically means the exact same thing as troops, dudes, chodes, chumps, etc. Except in this case, they aren't talking about "basic warriors." So it seems like it's just used for any unit that consists of multiple models that form ranks and files. Anyway, a lot of confusing, arbitrary, and lazy verbiage in there. It's a very easy mistake to make.

No! What have I begun?! Nobody suggested that, I misread. They're talking about using long models like the hellblaster and putting them on the edge of the DZ and then pivoting out to get the extra range. Same concept but not modeling for advantage--just taking advantage of the model. As far as solutions go, it's kind of absurd that war machines don't have bases yet. Putting them on a base and doing all measurements to the base would solve pretty much every issue with war machines. Hopefully GW figures that out for 9th.

Or just a "Here be Demons" sort of treasure map warning.

But the MC refers you to the the MI entry for the rest of the rules. It's incredibly lazy rules writing.

At the end of the section you keep quoting, it refers to page 81. Read that. It maces it explicitly clear that the "and so on" is describing all situations related to ranks. This is not one of those.

Hmm...seems to me like he would need 5 monstrous cav to get LOS as far as I can tell. It's "5 rank-and-file models" which is not the same thing as "a rank of 5 models." If he needed a rank to protect himself, 3 would work. But nowhere in the LOS rule does it say anything about a rank being the qualifier, just 5 models. The rulebook is more clear on monstrous ranks on page 81. It is explicitly clear that it works for rules that are worded with " a rank of 5 or more models". LOS never mentions ranks, simply rank-and-file troops which isn't the same thing.

Seriously!? THAT is the stance organizers took? I can understand banning him from that event, but maybe if those guys had discovered the marvels of the modern belt, he wouldn't have been put in that position.

So say we all!

I wasn't saying that, MexicanNinja was. I was clarifying because I misunderstood what he was saying. But I'm tracking now.

Carnosaurs gobble up Ogres wholesale. Go with that.

I'm more concerned that it's gonna take us another 38,000 years to figure out proper dick protection. It's the wave of the future, guys. Embrace it and take comfort in it.

Gotcha. I thought it was in reference to putting them on rectangular bases like chariot ones and spinning those out of the DZ. NVM then

So wouldn't putting them on a base, and then use the dimensions of that base to squeeze extra range out of them be the very definition of modeling for advantage?

Are war machines supposed to be on chariot bases? I've never received a base with any of my war machines.

Yeah, that's a risk for sure. But, again, the only way he's more survivable is with TG. They don't fit in that list so this is the second best option.

Yeah ghost slann can't join. Dragonbane gem is to help against magical flaming war machines (dwarves). But it's safer than a slann w/o temple guard, since he doesn't get LOS! against cannons and stone throwers. Anyway, sorry to thread jack, I was just trying to offer up an alternative if you found yourself thinking, "either slann OR dinos."

Hey, raak can we get the list baak ;) You can post point totals, just don't list the points of individual items and upgrades. Having said that, I know nothing about new demons, I'm just excited to see you poking your head into the reason if fantasy. Join us. Joiiiinnn usssss...

Edit. Nvm. I get it.

Make Joey do it!

Yeah but it sits on top of the tracks, rather than in between them. A jalopy of the 41.999st Millenium.

What about this for a mixed approach: 495: Slann w/ Soul of Stone, Becalming Cogitation, Wandering Deliberation, Higher State of Consciousness; Dispel Scroll, Dragonbane Gem; BSB 327: Scar-vet w/ Spear, light armor, shield; Carnosaur, Loping Stride 296: Skink chief w/ Spear, light armor, shield; Ancient Stegadon, Sharpened Horns 525: 45 Saurus w/ spears, full command 70: 10 Skink Skirmishers w/ javelins and shields 70, 10 Skink Skirmishers w/ javelins and shields 108: 3 Terradons w/ fireleech bolas 108: 3 Terradons w/ fireleech bolas 250: Ancient Stegadon w/ Sharpened Horns 250: Ancient Stegadon w/ Sharpened Horns Total: 2499 So you've got a ghost slann, a horde of saurus, and 4 monsters! That just looks like too much fun!

I'd start with the dark riders over warlocks. You can't dispel shooting. But Warlocks will warrant attention as soon as the shooting game is yours.

Please do, and let me know how it goes! I never got past the theoryhammer stage...

If the Slann went in the front rank, it would remove even more attacks. I think the second rank thing is awesome. It allows your magic bunker to get in combat with no risk to your slann. That said, a slann+TG adds up pretty quick. I do want to try a horde of Saurus with a slann and the skavenpelt banner in the unit. Could be cool. As to the mixed cohorts, I've never been a fan. Although I did recently get the idea to take 10 skinks w/ musician and krox. At 110 points, it's in about the same range as a lot of fast cav units, which I think is acceptable. With ld 7, they can operate on the flanks and panic less. Also, opponents' lighter flanking forces like fast cav will be far less likely to charge in to stop the skinks from hurling any more javelins. 3-4 str 7 attacks is pretty daunting to low-model-count units.