Munkie

Where in Spain? Barcelona is the bee's knees! While I was there, I found out that hamsters can lift their body weight with just their front paws for a hell of a lot longer than people can. It was swinging on the bars of it's cage like monkey bars for like 20 minutes, I couldn't look away. A true Warhamster if ever there was one.

I think I will start calling you a hole, Shae. Not "A-hole" mind you, just "a hole."

I run my falcon with Lando, Nien Nunb, Weapons Engineer, and Expert Handling. It's more of a support role which is where I like the falcon. I agree that 4 dice, however reliable, isn't worth the 52 points. But for 51 points I can do the same damage better (choosing which dice to re-roll from target locks is better than Han's special ability). But giving nearby ships free orders can really help them clean up TIE swarms trying to drag the falcon down. The pilot level being slightly lower is a problem only when I'm in fights where the falcon is limping along, but the falcon can trade blows with Soontir Fel and his ilk for 2-3 turns and start picking off everyone higher level than him. But up until that point, the lower pilot level is kind of nice. It means I can set up moves to execute barrel rolls before all the gaps close. It's hard to find a spot to belly flop if every Imperal ship has already moved. Cluster missile spam does sound like a decent counter to the falcon but I think that'll be harder to execute than it looks on paper. I'd use my smaller ships as a screen if I'm facing lots of cluster missiles. It'll be hard to set up a good volley if I've got my fighters chasing waves off their routes. With TIE swarms, the solution is disruption. That's why I always take Y-Wings to back up the falcon. Two 360 degree guns makes a venn diagram of pain for squadrons. You'll get maybe one good volley before ships start straying into overlapping lanes of fire. The falcon is hardly unbeatable but if properly protected, it is a real pain to remove.

Your characters have some illegal gear. Great weapons can't be rune-inscribed so you'll have to decide one or the other. In lighter news, the Rune of Forging doesn't specify that you only re-roll one artillery die. It says you can re-roll the dice "whenever a misfire is rolled" so you don't actually need the Engineer for that. He'll still help with his BS and entrenching and whatnot but I don't think he's worth his points, considering he's kind of redundant to what you can already do with engineering runes. At any rate, looks like a pretty solid list on paper (considering I haven't actually had a chance to play with the new book). I keep trying how to figure out how to fit Ironbreakers into a list. Hammerers are just so killy that they are hard to refuse, but fitting both into one list leaves too few points for war machines.

Yeah 7th is when it all changed, but they kept it in this book so I think the chaos rainbow is here to stay. Your reasoning for avoiding those pitfalls is sound and I commend you for it, but it's just a bummer that's a factor when list building.

I get the concerns about mixed gods being fluff butchery, but not the cheese concerns. Any other book can pick and choose the most powerful elements and nobody bats an eye. If demons do it, however, they catch all kinds of flak for it. Never really seemed fair to me. Not that I'm encouraging you to build a tournament like list, I just don't think anyone should feel guilty about fielding different units that don't hold hands in the stories.

That's awesome! Except the teeth on the lower jaw are pointing down...

We've got a beat up but insanely comfy couch and a full size bed in the 2nd bedroom (ie nerd cave)

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get GW.

Tournament!!!

Gonna settle so many grudges on Tuesday, boy.

I should be able to house a nerd or two at my apartment as well.

Gotcha. Well that's even less incentive to lump them together.

Yeah, Brick's comment said warriors, but I don't have any warriors, only longbeards. With regards to Ironbreakers, I think their rules are solid but their points cost is too much. They are eclipsed by hammerers and compete directly in terms of points and slot allocation (not that it's usually a problem for special choices). But by the time you get the far superior hammerers, a proper amount of war machines, and minimum core, there just isn't enough points to spare on another block of 20+ guys. Oh trust me I've gone back and forth on it a few times. I was considering 20 xbows with full command. Put a runesmith in there for armor piercing quarrels and delight in the pin-cushioning of my foes. Ultimately, I decided I'd like to try a mix of both and a mix of shields and great weapons so I can see what impresses me and what doesn't. The list is very scatter brained right now and I'm sure it'll get more focused as I start getting some experience. Thanks for the continued replies guys!

I want to see one of Vin Diesel circa Pitch Black that says "It's been a long time since I smelled 'beautiful.'" Mostly because it's an actual line from the movie and I think that should be immortalized.

I actually look at 40k and the direction they're taking the rules, and it seems more targeted towards kids rather than adults. I know when I got into warhammer I wanted to play the biggest battles possible so I could use ALL my new stuff. I didn't know or care that much about the fluff, I just knew what models I liked and knew I wanted to use them. And now more than ever, people can take all the models they've got and play them all together. What is fluffy, or themed, or whatever is no longer reflected in the rules. It is entirely our responsibility to govern ourselves and decide how important theme is. That's not a terrible thing, but it is a subjective, changing, difficult to explain thing. And what might work for us in Bellingham, likely won't be the same when we go on the road. That's my main concern really. I know I can reliably get a game in with anyone in Bellingham and we'll probably have a pretty fun time of it. Usually it is understood what you're facing when you get into it. I can build, and paint, and playtest an army to my satisfaction, only to find out that it is a crispy, dry leaf to other lists when we travel. Do I build to separate armies? Do I expect to lose when I travel? The divergence between what is good and what is fun has become a pretty discouraging gap for me.

Yeah, I used to feel the same but I want to try it with the new rules. With armor piercing (from the Runesmith) their str 4 is actually a bit more impressive, and, if I'm really lucky, they'll have hatred too. Also, with shields they take advantage of both the +1 to parry when receiving a charge, and +1 str when initiating one; whereas great weapons can't use both. But more than anything, I wanted to make sure I had one anvil block, and one hammer block and see how that goes. I can shift into double hammers or double anvils if one is getting results and the other is not. I'm bummed they dropped the ball on Ironbreakers, because I'd really like to try their new rules as an anvil. They just don't fit in 2.5k.

Or if we set up the league such that people know who they're facing the next week, they could agree on a points value between themselves.

Gah! I can't stop tweaking lists! Next Tuesday needs to happen so I can stop theorizing and start rolling stones. Anyway, I decided my list had too much redundancy for dabbling with a new book. I figured I'd scrap it and grab a bunch of different units to see how they all perform. I'll fine tune it from there. So here's the new idea: HEROES: 557 143: Thane (General) w/ Runic axe: RoSpeed; shield; runic armor: 2x RoFortitude, RoIron 188: Thane w/ Shield; Battle Standard: MRoGrungni, Strollaz' Rune 128: Runesmith w/ Shield; runic armor: RoStone; Fiery Ring of Thori; runic talsiman: Rune of Spellbreaking 98: Runesmith w/ Shield; runic armor: RoStone; runic talisman: Rune of Spellbreaking CORE: 680 140: 10 Thunderers w/ Shields, musician 150: 10 Quarrelers w/ Great weapons, musician 390: 25 Longbeards w/ Shields, full command; Rune of Stoicism SPECIAL: 930 455: 25 Hammerers w/ Shields, full command; Strollaz' Rune, Rune of Sanctuary 145: Cannon w/ Rune of Forging 150: Cannon w/ Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning 100: Gyrocopter w/ Vanguard 80: Gyrocopter RARE: 330 170: Organ Gun w/ Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Forging 160: 10 Irondrakes w/ Musician Total: 2497 Yeah, so a lot more variety of units than what I had previously. It's got more shooting, less combat power, but more combat mobility--which should hopefully make up for it. The idea is to be versatile, and switch up my tactics based on the list I'm facing. If I need to play defensively I can forgo my vanguards (or use them to slightly rearrange my line), put a runesmith in the quarrelers for some AP action, and attempt to blast the enemy into submission. Or, if I need to be aggressive, I'll have 50 stubborn dwarves and a gyrocopter vanguard up the board to save myself 2 turns of getting into position.

I'm down. Can I bring my Mighty Max dataslate?

Buildings?! Bah! I'm here to play Warhammer, not Polly Pocket!

I'm not a huge fan of those. Some pieces look really cool, but the whole thing is just kind of a chunk. I also don't like what appear to be a magazine coming out of either side of their wrist guns. Silly.

Oh man! If Conan the Barbarian was asked, "what is best in life?" after he saw that picture, he would totally have a different answer.

In my brief re-immersion into Fantasy, I would describe our meta as "developing." For a very long time there were so few people playing fantasy that "meta" is a bit of a misnomer. It's hard to have a meta of 4 or so players. Now more people are getting involved and bringing with them their own ideas of how fantasy should be played. It seems the power level thing is particularly in flux as a result of all the new fantasy people. I'd say play what your conscience tells you and if you realize either your, or your opponents' enjoyment is suffering due to the power of your army, adjust accordingly.