Munkie

I understand the value of the flaming banner, but it seems a weird inclusion in a WOOD elf army. Not that I think you shouldn't take it, but your Forest Spirits probably think you're a dick.

Yeah, that's my point. No gear for BSBs used to be the law of the land. One-by-one they've changed that as they release new books. It seems silly not to just house-rule it because there is no doubt in anyone's mind that it will be changed with the last 2 remaining books with that handicap. Give them access to the usual gear and updated common magic items list. Problem solved.

I'll probably be there since Christian never got back to me about Comicon tickets... I'll re-read the rules a few times and print out the faqs, to help you get your judge on, Kacy.

Who wants old, metal terradons? They are the absolute best, least frustrating models I've ever worked with!! A simply have four too many...

I talked to them before they opened and they expressed an interest in some sort of cooperation. They may be open to the idea--especially with 2 new breweries opening up within a mile of them soon. A little solidarity can go a long way in what is possibly a ballooning market. That's what I've been saying. When I walked in last night he was talking to a dude about in the back and made no effort to hide it as I walked in. I just was in a hurry so I couldn't chat. Remember, guys, he's a gamer first. He's not doing this to screw us and he will go with what is the fairest, financially viable deal. I'm more than willing to approach him with any proposals or suggestions or objections we can cook up as a club. Totally. I can tune out the sound of a videogame in the background. What I can't deal with someone who can't hear how loud he is and is facing 180 degrees from all of the glaring faces. I think a slight remodel there could really help things, but I wonder about cost/closure. As to your last point, please understand he already does support us. His store could be half the size it is now and be a very successful MTG store. The back half is dead weight. With regard to the facebook page, can't we post on his wall or whatever from the Warhamster facebook? I don't know how all that [big bad swear word] works, but it's something like that...right?

I couldn't speak to that, I've never been. If he reserved the back area for 21+, he would see even less use out of the back room. I love the idea, but I think he'd have to move to a new location before it'd really be feasible.

Pffsh! Let's see them take on the NFL!

I've never understood why there isn't a house rule about this yet. Sure every other book released since halfway through last edition has gotten shield and weapon options for BSB, but we can't just assume that they won't arbitrarily leave Bretonians in the lurch. Plus they would totally be OP if their BSB could take gear.

Yeah I think that's the best application for it. It won't do enough damage to bring a block down to manageable strength but the sooner you can eliminate the mobile elements of the enemy army, the longer you have control of the movement game, and the more you can leverage your strengths.

Personally, I don't think the liquor license thing is gonna happen. I know he looked into it a bit when he first moved locations and almost made a move on the space where The Local is now. But his shop would require a fair bit of remodeling to add refrigeration, keg space, etc. Also, beer served in a floor with carpet floors seems like a recipe for disaster. And finally, there are plenty of underage people that go in there and parents would probably start steering their kids away if there are a bunch of drunk assholes in the back ("a holes" in Shae's case). It would be a dream, but probably one we'll have to wake up from.

Stopped in to pick up my Gyrocopter tonight. He's now offering a 10% discount to any special order items to keep people loyal. He's also making that retroactive for orders people have placed but not yet received! Perhaps that will assuage feelings of betrayal? Anyway, the reason I mentioned the pay-to-play (in whatever form it may take) is if he did go that route, I could talk to him about a club arrangement. He's not stupid and I promise you he knows the consequences of disenfranchising us. It will be difficult to track, but if we collected the dues internally and paid in a lump sum, he might give us a club discount. Remember, he was a gamer first, and he'll do his best to do right by us. But he's got to balance that with the realities of raising a family in the 21st century. It bums me out to think about what might change, but really he has every right to re-evaluate his business model, regardless of the assurances he's made to all of us. Right now, we've got pretty much the best arrangement a gamer could as for: spacious, clean, comfortable, free. I hope things don't change, but if they do, I could probably settle for the second best arrangement a gamer could ask for

Thanks for the replies fellas! Yeah I would definitely make sure to emphasize it before the battle, and offer helpful reminders if ever it seemed my opponent forgot. Like if a regen unit was avoiding the terradons for fear of those flaming attacks or something.

I would like to model the terradon riders with fireleach bolas because the look awesome and fun to paint. But if I wanted to run them as javelins for some reason (shaving points), do you think that'd be an issue? Counting attacks as not flaming seems less bothersome than the reverse to me.

Yeah I recently bought a B-Wing at Barnes and Noble with a gift card I got for Christmas and felt terrible about it. It took me two trips there just to convince myself it was silly not to, I'll just by a second one when Nathaniel finally gets it in. I was finally getting over my guilt when Jon went and dropped this bombshell on us! Personally, I think best scenario (short of the status quo) is some sort of monthly dues or pay-to-play at DTG. I don't have a lot of expendable cash, but at the end of the day I'd rather preserve that space and will toss in a little extra cash to do it. We're not gonna get a better game room than that, and we owe it to ourselves to keep it around.

List A seems to be the popular choice but in most of our talks about WE, your lack of fondness for GG spam has come up. I wonder if it would maintain your interest for long. With that in mind, I like List B. But instead of the 3 Treekin, I really like HeroZero's noble on a great eagle. I've always had a fondness for super quick characters that dart off and cause problems.

I think a LAN area is a bad idea, personally. I've seen MANY of those businesses come and go. Asking people to travel and pay to play a system they already own that can already reach anyone in the world doesn't make sense. Also, giving up on a known but insufficient quantity (our sales) in favor of a whole new market with a lot of overhead seems risky. Up your sales rather than scrap them in favor of hopefully new ones. I agree that we should be trying to buy as much as of our nerd merch at DTG, it seems to have been taken for granted lately. Hell, if we can just show him a bump in sales for a little while, it may help alleviate his concerns. To this effect, I would recommend making your purchases on the weekends when Nathaniel is there so he'll notice that we do actually buy things.

"Breath Weapon Close Combat Attack" on page 67 specifically refers to it being an "additional close combat attack." Why would an additional close combat attack not benefit from the AP?

Creating a counter to a power list only promotes "balanced play" if the counter doesn't also smash the balanced lists. And I just don't see how that's the case. What Lord of War/Fortification/Knight/etc. would destroy a tournament list but struggle against an underpowered list? Also, all comers lists went extinct with the advent of 6th edition. The more recent releases compound that by creating so many different variables to plan for that you can't plan for all of them. It feels less like its about generalship than ever, and more about rock-paper-scissors. That's a fine game and all, but I don't really like sitting down to a 3 hour lesson on how well scissors cut apart paper. It seems we can mostly agree, at any rate, that the game isn't that fun if you take it all in at once. So we have to agree to omit things, clarify things, tweak, alter and subtract to try to make the game fun for everyone again. I just don't know how many hurdles I want to jump over in the quest to like a game, but it's somewhere fewer than what GW has laid out.

Out of the Furnace- 2/10. The first half was meandering and pointless, the catalyst was boring, the revenge story was completely linear and obstacle free. The characters were trite and their development was ham-fisted. Everything from the conversations to the "action" were uninteresting. One of those films where everyone involved in it, probably looked at the final product and said, "Well, we technically made a movie." Then everyone collected paychecks and went home.

Wow that's a good deal for all that! I'm tempted and I rarely play Zombicide, they just look fun to build!

Totally forgot to say I support this! I have an excess of lots of things I'd like to get rid of. Anyone got a suggestion for a good day for it?

Yeah the general consensus seems to be that those additions without context or direction, can lead to unbalanced match-ups that neither party can enjoy. But as long as there is a proper discussion beforehand of what both players are looking for, then they can build lists accordingly. Comp went from being a semi-anual debate to a necessity almost overnight and nobody seems to want to admit it. The world is filled with game systems and getting fuller by the day. Competition is fierce. And as I realized how many pregame discussions, house-rules, and general eggshell walking is required to play 40k, I realized it wasn't worth the effort for me. But I'm having a kick-ass time playing Fantasy again which is now a much saner rule set by comparison, so I'm still a happy gamer.

Alas, poor Grungni; the rune is BSB only so the Hammerers will need something else. Personally, I'd scrap the champ paying 10 points to no longer have a kick-ass great weapon and, instead, take the fiery ring on one of your characters. It's a one-use-only but between that and the hammerers, one round is pretty much all you should need against the targets you mentioned. And if you take put it in a unit with a Runesmith (or on the Runesmith himself) then its 2D6 hits get AP! I like the 4 blocks of dwarves approach, though I worry about your ability to get stuck in with high mobility armies. Not enough to keep them respectful, nor enough to remove some of those stomp-happy units out there that love squishing stunties :( Definitely curious how it performs, keep us posted!

1. Blocking is definitely a good way to mitigate the falcon (although way less so if Dutch is nearby as he'll have target lock anyway), but barrel rolling isn't really necessary, just a little som'm som'm. 2. Asteroids are handy and definitely have their own strategy in placements, but it's a lot harder to force the falcon into asteroids than it is to force ships without turrets. Everyone knows you don't take the falcon into an asteroid field. They're lousy with mynocks! 3. "Will be getting hits" is a bit of an exaggeration. You'll have a statistical advantage, but with blanks being an option you can't really count on anything. Otherwise, if he's got nowhere to barrel roll, he can also just do an evade. And keep in mind if you do have multiple ships close enough to hit reliably, you can count on one of them dying before they get to shoot. You really have to have at least 3 TIEs shooting at it from range 2 or closer to reliably ding even a couple shields. That's not hard to do for one turn, but it becomes extremely hard to do consistently. I'm not saying you're wrong, those are the best ways to handle the falcon short of tailoring a list for it. I just think you'll have to manage at least 2 of those 3 methods consistently to really be able to get a handle on it. If that's happening, I don't think the Rebel player is using their other ships effectively. As for the "ignore it" approach, that can certainly be viable too, but a Falcon is a scary thing to leave unchecked. It can start assassinating those lynch pin models while the remaining ships try to shake pursuers. Anyway, we seem to have had different experiences in our separate metas. Clearly, galaxies need to collide in a specatacle of space lasers and cargo shorts.

So I FINALLY got in a game with the New Dwarves and I had a blast! I got exactly what I asked for with this book. I wanted Dwarves to be situationally quick (one-use-onlies and the like for movement buffs), and have more unit synergy with their characters. And GW did both in spades. Anyway, I took the following list: HEROES: 557 143: Thane (General) w/ Runic axe: RoSpeed; shield; runic armor: 2x RoFortitude, RoIron 188: Thane w/ Shield; Battle Standard: MRoGrungni, Strollaz' Rune 128: Runesmith w/ Shield; runic armor: RoStone; Fiery Ring of Thori; runic talsiman: Rune of Spellbreaking 98: Runesmith w/ Shield; runic armor: RoStone; runic talisman: Rune of Spellbreaking CORE: 680 140: 10 Thunderers w/ Shields, musician 150: 10 Quarrelers w/ Great weapons, musician 405: 25 Longbeards w/ Shields, full command; 2x RoSlowness SPECIAL: 930 440: 25 Hammerers w/ Shields, full command; Strollaz' Rune 145: Cannon w/ Rune of Forging 150: Cannon w/ Rune of Forging, Rune of Burning 100: Gyrocopter w/ Vanguard 80: Gyrocopter RARE: 330 170: Organ Gun w/ Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Forging 160: 10 Irondrakes w/ Musician Total: 2497 It's nearly identical to the list on the previous page but I swapped some banner runes around to get the Longbeards 2x Runes of Slowness instead of stubborn. I played against Orcs in a pitched battle. He took roughly: lvl 4 Shaman lvl 2 Night Gobbo Orc BSB with great weapon, T5, 2+/5++ 40 Savages 20-25 Black Orcs 3 units of 5 wolf riders 3 wolf chariots 2 Mangler squigs 6 Trolls 2 Doom Divers Rock Lobster Arachnarok I won't bore you with the blow-by-blow but instead give a unit analysis. Thanes: I built them both for all defense, no offense and got what I payed for. My general with T6, 3 wounds, 3+/5++ is a real beast to take down (especially for a hero choice!). He endured 4 combat phases with that Orc BSB and only took a wound. But it made me realize sometimes I'll be in fights where it's only a matter of time. I'm toying with a 1+/4++ and a great weapon to clobber my way out of grim circumstances. I'll probably run that next battle to see if I like it better. Runesmiths: Worth their weight in gold! The armor piercing was key in several situations and they were able to handle the magic phase pretty well. Some spells were cast but he couldn't cast as efficiently as he'd like since he knew I'd be packing more than one D-scroll. He threw a lot of dice at a lot of spells and got beat up a bit by miscasts. Quarrellers/Thunderers: Both did a great job and I loved their versatility. I deployed both of them on my right flank and shot up chariots, manglers, trolls, and wolf riders all game. And on the final turn of the game I charged both units into combat with glorious results. The thunderers charged the 3 remaining trolls in the rear, killed one and ran them down! The Quarrelers charged the Savage horde in the flank and chopped up the lvl 4 Shaman! That's 2 grudges settled. Irondrakes: Fun little unit but they need more test runs.The idea was to deploy them on my left flank, against the table edge, and walk forward while blasting. My opponent spent the first 2 turns carefully staying out of their range, so I just marched up to my battle line. But hey, if I'm shutting down the flanking moves of fast cav and an arachnarok for 2 turns, I call that a success. In the end, they managed to flank charge said fast cav in the flank who were in combat with a Hatredcopter. They buchered the wolf riders and put 2 wounds on the arachnarok as it charged them but were then gobbled up by it. Grudge recorded. Warmachines: Did what they do. With Rune of Forging now working for ANY misfires, the guns are incredibly reliable now, it's crazy. Turn 1, one of my cannons re-rolled both his added distance and his bounce distance and killed a mangler squig in the process. The other cannon took regen from the trolls who got all shot up afterwards. Chariots, doom divers, and wolf riders all fell before the guns and the arachnarok lost a chunk of wounds to a cannon. Unfortunately his counter-batteries were devastating! His stonethrower killed both a cannon and an my organ gun. When the cannon died, the other one failed a panic and hid for a turn. When the organ gun died, the quarrelers ran away (although that put them in position for that afore mentioned flank charge). 2 Grudges Recorded. Gyrocopters: Fan, flippin', tastic! When these things are in Hatred copter mode, they can do some damage. One gyrocopter sprayed only one wolf rider down so no panic check. Then he took 2 wounds from a doom diver. In my next turn, he nobly crashed his crippled copter into an oncoming mangler squig, instantly killing it. Grudge recorded against sneaky doom divers! The copter with the vanguard hung out near my infantry blocks. He baited a charge from some wolf riders, took it on the chin and set them up for the Irondrakes. Then he went on to charge and kill both the Stone thrower that had been terrorizing my artillery, and the doom diver that wounded the other gyrocopter! HATRED COPTER! That's both grudges against my artillery settled by one vengeful Dwarf and his flying machine. Longbeards: Dependable, and good in a battle of attrition. That Rune of Slowness is fantastic! I vanguarded them close enough to tempt charges on turn 1. Due to things arriving piecemeal, they were able to take a charge from a wolf rider and chop it to splinters, move onto some black orcs and grind them down for a few turns. Props for the black orcs for hanging on as long as they did though. After that they got rear charged by the big spider. The Runesmith really wanted to save his Fiery Ring for the savage orcs but it was down to him, the champion, and the banner left in the unit and the spider had one wound left. I rolled up 11 str 4, AP hits and torched the pest. Grudge Settled. Hammerers: I had these guys parked in woods for fun. They charged out and into the Black Orcs and pursued into the Savage Orcs with the BSB and general. I was not thrilled about this grind and when the arachnarok rear-charged my longbeards, I knew no help was coming. But they actually stuck it out pretty damn well. They lost the first round of combat due to choppas but won the second, cancelling frenzy. But on the final turn, he ran despite being steadfast with an Ld 8 BSB. I was happy with just being alive and having my quarrelers assassinate his general. But they took off and got run down. Grudge settled. All I had left of that unit was 2 hammerers, and 3 characters. So I won, and rather convincingly, points-wise, but not so much in model count. Both of my combat blocks were down to 2 models plus characters, I had 4 quarrelers, and about 6 thunderers left. And one wounded gyrocopter and one cannon as well. It's times like these that I wish half-dead units counted as half VPs still. It doesn't feel right that I was 2 models away from huge 400+ point swings, but oh well. There wasn't much in my list that I feel I need to change but I think I will try out a new Thane build in the next battle. Thanks for reading!