Psilence

Must an IC with a special rule choose to be deployed within coherency of a unit to pass the special rule to the unit?

So, by your logic, a scout IC could join and 'redeploy' out of (he's deploying again) and back into any number of units before the game began if they where all in close enough proximity. Granting, theoretically, the scout special rule to an entire infantry army. To my knowledge there is no wording in the standard deployment method that negates either the phase specific means of leaving a unit, or the requirement for IC's to remain in unit coherency. If there is a page ref would be awesome. To begin the game as part of a unit (has to be to pass scout) an IC must be deployed (redeployed is 'deployed again' so bound by the rules for deployed) in coherency with it. Again the TWC can do what it wants(spread out of coherency because of 'each model'), but the IC has to be within 2" of one of them. You spin me right round, baby right round... ????

Good morning I'll concede that the 'move' in scout was a stretch. :P Why would p.100 not apply to redeployment? It doesn't list any limitations, and would apply to the entire game (and pre game) once an IC had joined a unit. Again there is language that requires an IC to be in coherency with a unit he is part of in deployment (or redeployment) phase, before the game has begun. Even if you 'could' deploy the TWC with 24" between each TWC model (12" redeploy both directions) the inq would have to be in coherency (2") of one of them. Also, moving within 2" of a second unit would not be possible, until the movement phase of the controlling player.

Btw, not trying to be 'that guy' . I always worry that I come off like a tool when I debate with folks. Wanted to set my tone . While there is no specific language for how the TWC have to deploy (in coherency or not) the IC would have to be within 2" of at least one of them, per p.100. There is no reference to phase or type of movement (or redeployment), only the restriction that they maintain coherency with the unit they are 'in'. A rule that says it can't (be outside of 2") cannot be ignored by one that is vague on weather or not it can (be outside of 2"). Imho of corse. Also, the scout rule itself has the word move in it. So one could argue that redeployment is a movement, bound by all the rules associated with it. I'm off to paint some bikes

The top list would make a fun counts as ork speed cult list. I like both lists as they are very in your face, and 'feel' like how SW would fight.

I do like the cheap scout platform though.

I would have to vote nay. Independent character p. 166 -An IC can leave a unit during the movement phase by moving out of unit coherency with it. -While an independant character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters. Scout P. 171 -has been stated above, but references unit type, not special rules (IC). -After deployment but before first player begins his first turn. Turn summary p. 17 -1 start of turn -2 movement phase. Characters and moving p. 100 -Characters follow the movement rules for models of their type, infantry, jump, bikes, ect. However, remember that they must remain in unit coherency with any unit they are in. Unit coherency p. 19 -Once a unit has finished moving, it must form a chain where the distance between one model and the next is no more than 2" horizontally. He could join the unit, and redeploy 6" with them (he would be infantry type, unless i missed something) but would have to remain within 2" of them until the owning players first movement phase. Just my 2 cents.

Wow that looks fun ????

Tactical breadnought armor.

Apparently hooked on phonics did 'not' work for me. Ty pax :)

I'm curious about the boxed sets as well. Was reading through the book again and noticed that every nemesis force weapon has the deamonbane rule. So if force is activated the Gk player rerolls failed wounds and armor penetrations. Waddayaknow, grey knights actually have some tools to deal with deamons.

Raven can still choose. The detachment allows them to roll turn 1 reserves (in on a 3+) for deep strikers only. So with any reserves manipulation (if that's still a thing) gets them in fairly reliably. Units also gain the ability to run and shoot, in any order, on the turn they arrive from deep strike reserve. So no abuse with gate, but still cool'ish.

Ahh, thanks. The combination or being old, having been through many editions, and having a 19mo old son have fried my brain :)

As a long time Grey Knight player I thought I’d throw this out for the folks who don’t have or wont pick up the codex. I put together a quick list of the changes I noticed in the book. I’m sure someone else will come up with more. Army wide summary, if you want to skip most of the text: No more psybolt. No more Mordrak. No more psychotroke. No more pally troops. No more purifier troops. No more 2++ (cc) warding staves. Halberds +1 str, not +2 I. Swords no longer + 1++. Only suffer perils of the warp on 2 or more 6’s rolled. Reroll 1’s to deny the witch. Fun detachment: Nemesis strike force. 1hq and 1 troop mandatory. Allows rerolls on the warlord table. Allows turn 1 reserves rolls for deepstriking units. Eat your heart out DW :) Fluffy tactical objectives that give knights a slight advantage vs lists with deamons. Winners: Librarians Terminators Nemesis dreadknights Interceptors with incinerators. Detachment Loosers: I’ll add this later after everyone has had some time to mess with the book. Draigo: Cheaper pnts but lord of war, so cant be warlord? No longer unlocks paladins as troops. Automatically has gate of infinity. Bouncy bouncy bouncy. Hits at st7 (9 with hammer hand) ap2 with the titan sword. Crowe: Slightly more expensive. No longer unlocks purifiers as troops. Gains smash, so ap2 in cc. Uses both sword stances in cc, so ‘always’ rerolls 2+/4++ saves in cc. Regular IC, so can join units. Sword loses it special rules, so no more buffs for enemies charging him. Hammer of wrath for him and unit. Must accept challenges. Heroic sacrifice is just a single regular attack upon death. Can be smash? Stern: Slight drop in points. Same re-rolls shenanigans. Same stat line. Zone of banishment (-1 to invuln to deamons, know by most of the army, stacks) now affects all units within 12" of stern. Basically a 24” bubble of eff u to deamons. Brother cap/ grand masters: Similar points (gm 10 pnts more but gained an attack). Able to take Div, telekinesis, telepathy, and sanctic. Some interesting wargear options with the relics and termi weapons. Brother champs: Half again as expensive as before. Same as crowe, but must choose either smash, or the reroll saves in cc. Librarians: SUPER cheap mastery 2 (upgradeable to 3) TDA chasis. Same power selection as Bro caps/GMs. Interesting wargear options with relics and gear. Standard issue Adamantium will and 2++ cc save with nemesis warding staff. Tech marines: Pretty much the same (points, bolster, repair, powers) Interesting options with relics and wargear. Strike squads: Slight baseline pnt increase for initial 5 man unit. Cheaper weapon options for upgrades (halberds, falchons, and warding staves) Cheaper psycannons and incinerators. Change to psilencers (heavy 6, force). An interesting option for dealing with MC’s and multi-wound units. Terminators: SIGNIFICANT points reduction (~ ¼). More expensive cc weapons options (used to be free swaps) Ability to take land raiders as transports. Purifiers: All cc attacks have the soul blaze rule. Chance for D3 str4 ap5 hits. Slight points increase to baseline unit, and slightly more expensive cc weapon options. Mastery level 2 brotherhood of psykers. Similar ranged weapons pnts. Paladins: Smallest unit size is 3 pallies. No more solodins. Significant points reduction to apothecary upgrade (~3/4) Same baseline points per model. Significant points increase due to cc weapon upgrades (used to be free swaps) Similar pnts for ranged weapon options. May take land raiders as transports. Able to upgrade to a relic banner that makes the unit fearless and makes deamons with 12” test for difficult and dangerous terrain. Dreads: Slightly more expensive riflemen dread frame. No more psibolt. Slightly point reduction for venerable (25) Able to give themselves 6++ (santic power) Rhino: Slight points reduction (5) No more psychic pilot. Razorback: Significant points increase (10) Significant points reduction for ranged weapon options (10 -15) No more psychic pilot. Interceptors: Slight points drop per base model (1) Significant pnts drop for incinerators (1/2). Yay! Time for some BBQ. Similar pnts for cc weapon options. Storm raven gunship: Slight baseline pnt reduction (5). No more psychic pilot. Mindstrike missiles replaced with stormstrike. 72” str8 ap2, concussive. No more sniping out psykers. Purgation squad: Slight baseline unit cost increase (10). Gain night vision. Points reductions on psycannons and incinerators. Nemesis Dreadknights: Slight pnts drop for ranged weapon upgrades. Slight points drop for cc weapons. Significant points drop for personal teleporter. Nemesis Great sword no longer rerolls. Baseline str reduced to 6. Able to give itself 4++. Santic power. Land raiders (all): No more psychic pilot. Slight points reduction for all hulls and weapons/equipment options. For me the army feels like it went a little vanilla flavored. Thoughts?

How'd everybody fare?

If the model is mounted on the base it was supplied with, at the right height for enemy shooting/targeting, I'd have to say its fair game.

I'd buy that for a dollar. :)

Gratz proph :)

As a long time grey knight player all I can do is echo some of the advice posted above. Psycannons would be my default choice as far as heavies, allowing a normally slow unit to contribute significant fire power to the game, and keeps them working if your opponent decides to kite the unit. The cc weapon load out (4 halberds and a hammer) is defiantly viable. The addition of another hammer would allow you to chew threw other 2+ units a little better, but is not necessary if the unit is supported/screened by the rest of the army. See 'Meat Shield' The 4++ given by swords can work every once in a while, but from experience usually fails at critical moments. Removing the treat before it can swing (halberd) works better in my experience. Warding staves come down to preference. They are an expensive upgrade, but barring precision strikes allows the receiving player to tank through some heavy hits and strike back effectively. Ap 3 is a cherry on top. If i have the points this is one of auto includes in larger units of paladins. One upgrade not yet discussed is the inclusion of an apothecary. While wildly expensive, it adds another significant layer of durability to an already hard unit. With Draigo at its head, and some repositioning from turn to turn of wounded models, the multi-wound nature of the paladins can be taken advantage of for longer. Not quite as good as 5th ed wound allocation, but still good. It has decided a few of my games (admittedly I had some hot dice ) and is another auto include in my larger units. Lastly, solodins (single paladin units) are one of my new favorites. For a fairly small points investment you get a solid late game (Draigos psychic communion) disruption unit. While not a huge threat, if ignored they will wreck small 'soft' claiming units and claim or contest objectives like champs. These guys will win you games. Hammers on these guys keeps them viable vs most anything they encounter. The only time I would use 2-3 man units would be if you are running a themed paladin army or if you happen to have points left over. While fun, the lack of psycannons hurts, and the increased threat generated by the unit would make target priorities easier for your opponent. How will the unit be used pax? Mini deathstar/fire soak? Dedicated counter assault? General purpose? Are you running a grey knight army or sticking them in as allies for your guard/DA?

Lol. We ended up with about a foot near the zoo. :) Gl with the raven.

Grats on the little one hobb :)

Fluger, you can't just change your avatar willy nilly like that. I read a post and my eyes muscle memory was like 'who the eff is trying to impersonate fluger?' :p I had to 'slowly' read your name to realize/prove it was you ;) As for the nids, I think people are frustrated because the books power level (already mid to low from last incarnation) remained the same/slipped backward a step, compaired to eldar/tau/marines who had significant structural table top tweaks. I'm not saying they can't win, just that their play style (the bat reps/lists I've seen/written) has gone from aggressive to denial. Sorta reminds me of late 4th ed pure GK. Really fun if you accept what you are playing, super frustrating if you don't love your toy soldiers :p

The updated list looks like fun. It reminds me of 3rd - 4th Ed blood angels. Get close with everything all at once the pounce in a wave of 'shoot all you like, something is making it through'. :) How are the mutilators doing? What do you use them for (assault support/late game back field disrupters/ect)?

+1

Nice work on the table :)